Need Woodstock AS help, at wits end.

[begreen]

Your setup is not unusual and the double 90º turn will reduce draft velocity. Until tested I wouldn't be sure that draft is excessive. That should be done first. The key damper is not an automatic need or operation. In milder outdoor temps it may be better to leave it wide open.

 

[snobuilder]

Wow. Scary. You need a science degree....lol.

 

[Chris1927]

Before it “blew up”, when I had the key damper engaged it seem to have gentle ignition of secondaries, and when the key damper was open, I had aggressive ignition of secondaries. Seems like maybe the air was rushing in there fast because of strong draft and “exploding”?
But now I’m afraid to use the key damper cause last time I did, smoke came out the top and out the air intake

 

[Chris1927]

So Begreen, would you suggest reconnecting the OAK, small load, give it plenty of air initially (3/4 open) after cat engagement for 30 minutes or so or until temps come up, then close air but not too much, and see what happens?

 

[begreen]

The stove should be able to run with a regular load of fuel. You should be able to follow the manual's instructions for normal operation. Otherwise it's flawed.

Have you considered asking Woodstock to exchange it for a less troublesome model? Most of their stoves are more robust.

 

[Chris1927]

So I always thought I was burning it at okay temps. It never really went above 550 until it broke. But it broke twice. I just assumed that over burn was the range on their thermometer (I think it’s above 650?).
I was upset when it broke the second time. So much so that this time they came and got the stove and brought it back.
I don’t think they’d be willing to swap it out for another model.

 

[begreen]

I would ask. Woodstock is good about customer service and this may not be your fault. It won't hurt to let them know that the stove is not working out. It sounds like you have been pretty patient. The question is what to replace it with?

 

[snobuilder]

I would ask. Woodstock is good about customer service and this may not be your fault. It won't hurt to let them know that the stove is not working out. It sounds like you have been pretty patient. The question is what to replace it with?

You are saying it "may not" be his fault.....
Just curious but why should an average citizen buying a " modern" wood stove and being a person of normal ability not have a reasonable expectation that they can then operate it with it being in control EVER be THEIR fault. Sounds like an inferior product to me. Much like when the brave green new world decided they had a better portable gas can design. .....fubared

 

[begreen]

It's a totally reasonable expectation. Not every stove or design (or car or other appliance) is a home run. Even famous companies like Lopi have had occasional fussy turkeys with weaknesses that showed up in real world usage. They were pretty stoves, but a pita for some to operate.

 

[snobuilder]

It's a totally reasonable expectation. Not every stove or design (or car or other appliance) is a home run. Even famous companies like Lopi have had occasional fussy turkeys with weaknesses that showed up in real world usage. They were pretty stoves, but a pita for some to operate.

If a car had this many safety concerns, then who would buy it let alone have it available to the general public. So this is not acceptable.
Don't get this wrong I enjoy and will always heat with wood .

I want others to be able to as well.

 

[stoveliker]

That is not the stoves fault, in general.

In almost all cases it's how it is connected, humidity, wind, chimney, home tightness, fuel (not being manufactured as gasoline is; even pellets are variable...).

Yes there are poorly designed (and untested or insufficiently tested, so the requirements from the above list for proper, safe, or clean operation are not known) stoves. But th far majority of what we can buy has been designed ok.

That is very different from a car where fuel is much more regulated, and operation does not depend on tightness of an enclosure, local wind and weather parameters, fuel variability (because that's rather standard and uniform), user installed tail pipe length etc.

We can get where you want to be. But having the government dictate precisely how much your door may leak, that you've should take 2.5 bricks off of your chimney, and you can only burn 1 ft sections of 2*4 at 8 pct humidity, stacked in this geometry (see figure provided to you by law).

I surmise that none of us want that amount of govt interference in our lives.

 

[snobuilder]

That is not the stoves fault, in general.

In almost all cases it's how it is connected, humidity, wind, chimney, home tightness, fuel (not being manufactured as gasoline is; even pellets are variable...).

Yes there are poorly designed (and untested or insufficiently tested, so the requirements from the above list for proper, safe, or clean operation are not known) stoves. But th far majority of what we can buy has been designed ok.

That is very different from a car where fuel is much more regulated, and operation does not depend on tightness of an enclosure, local wind and weather parameters, fuel variability (because that's rather standard and uniform), user installed tail pipe length etc.

We can get where you want to be. But having the government dictate precisely how much your door may leak, that you've should take 2.5 bricks off of your chimney, and you can only burn 1 ft sections of 2*4 at 8 pct humidity, stacked in this geometry (see figure provided to you by law).

I surmise that none of us want that amount of govt interference in our lives.

Double like.
Well said.

 

[bholler]

If a car had this many safety concerns, then who would buy it let alone have it available to the general public. So this is not acceptable.
Don't get this wrong I enjoy and will always heat with wood .

I want others to be able to as well.

What safety concerns are you referring to.

 

[Chris1927]

I reconnected the OAK. I kept air open 3/4 after engaging the cat until STT reached 400 (maybe 20 mins). Then closed the air to half way between 1 and 2 setting. And again “whoosh”, backpuffing.

 

[Chris1927]

I don’t rule out that some of this is not the stove’s fault. Some of it could be related to the chimney, the draft, user error. But when the secondary burn grate warped , and then the metal between the gasket channel for the bypass flap and the area where the cat sits warped within the 2nd year of use all while keeping temps below 600 at least ( more like 550). And then in its 4th year of use, the stainless steel for the gasket channel of the bypass flap broke in the corner and some welds broke loose, again keeping temps below 600 definitely. Then you can see my frustration. And trying all kinds of things to figure it out, lining the chimney, installing an OAK, replacing the gasket for the clean out door, etc.
I’ll call Woodstock and see if they can help me troubleshoot the backpuffing. For some reason, engaging the key damper at that stage I found often “cures” the backpuffing making the sudden ignition of secondaries more gently rolling like it slows it down.
But honestly, if I can’t figure something out, and I’m out of hope pretty much, I think I’m gonna unload the stove and get a Drolet or something.

 

[Chris1927]

But yes I agree. I am not an expert in wood burning. But, I have reasonable knowledge of operating a wood stove. I have average knowledge I guess. So I shouldn’t have this much trouble, and at this point I feel I can’t even leave the stove, leave the house with it going, I can’t trust it.

 

[stoveliker]

I reconnected the OAK. I kept air open 3/4 after engaging the cat until STT reached 400 (maybe 20 mins). Then closed the air to half way between 1 and 2 setting. And again “whoosh”, backpuffing.

But did you decrease the air in small steps? Decreasing a lot (I assume between 1 and 2, with a scale of 5?) in one go will often lead to backpuffing.

You need to do that in 4 steps or so, with 10 minutes in between. (And to avoid too hot STT you may have to start doing this sooner.)

 

[d.sebens]

I’ll add my vote of making a call to the manufacturer and talking to their tech/customer support. You have tons if help and knowledge on this website but they will be more likely to have the specific knowledge for your model and might even know of some field fixes or updates. Just remember, garbage in garbage out. Make sure you know your chimney height, type of chimney, wood moisture, and obviously your operation settings.

Just make sure to paint the most accurate picture when talking to them. It’s easy for you to visualize but much harder for them.

 

[snobuilder]

But yes I agree. I am not an expert in wood burning. But, I have reasonable knowledge of operating a wood stove. I have average knowledge I guess. So I shouldn’t have this much trouble, and at this point I feel I can’t even leave the stove, leave the house with it going, I can’t trust it.

From what you describe it is easy to see your safety concerns.
That isn't an el cheapo stove either.

 

[begreen]

Has the firewood been properly tested for moisture content?

 

[Chris1927]

I’ve been in contact with Woodstock off and on. I’ve tried burning it in all kinds of different ways. They’ve suggested closing the bypass on a reload almost immediately as long as STT temp is 250 and say I can shut the air down right away. When I do this the STT still climbs to 550. But now I’m having this backpuffing thing going on. I’ve tried key damper, no key damper, changing gaskets.
I am pretty much done. I guess I’m going to contact them and see what they can do, and if they won’t do anything, then unload the stove and get something else.

 

[bholler]

I’ve been in contact with Woodstock off and on. I’ve tried burning it in all kinds of different ways. They’ve suggested closing the bypass on a reload almost immediately as long as STT temp is 250 and say I can shut the air down right away. When I do this the STT still climbs to 550. But now I’m having this backpuffing thing going on. I’ve tried key damper, no key damper, changing gaskets.
I am pretty much done. I guess I’m going to contact them and see what they can do, and if they won’t do anything, then unload the stove and get something else.

Has anyone ever tested your draft? It honestly sounds like low draft to me. Backpuffing is not that common with overdraft.

Is the bottom of the stainless liner capped off or sealed off at the clean out?

 

[Chris1927]

Nobody has ever tested my draft. I would say it’s not poor draft, but if anything I’ve worried about overdraft. Actually the backpuffing seems better if I engage a key damper. But then again, I like blew up that one time.
Liner is closed off at clean out.

 

[Chris1927]

I don’t know if this could have anything to do with backpuffing, but to me, when I look, there’s very little space between the metal where the cat sits (the cat housing) and the secondary burn grate because it seems like the secondary burn grate warped/flexed up right there. The secondary burn grate is all wavy when you look at it.

 

[begreen]

Nobody has ever tested my draft. I would say it’s not poor draft, but if anything I’ve worried about overdraft. Actually the backpuffing seems better if I engage a key damper. But then again, I like blew up that one time.
Liner is closed off at clean out.

That's why I asked if the wood moisture was tested. The only time I have had to deal with backpuffing on a proper flue setup is when I was burning wood that I thought was dry and it wasn't.