Need help to figure out what we need to do.

[vatmark]

So since we have had our stove it seems like things are not quite right. We do not get much secondaries most of the time. It seems like the wood is starved for air even with the air control is wide open. If I open the stove door a crack it flares right up. Close the door and it dies down. Many times I do not even have to close the air down at all. Stove top temp taken at the corner rarely goes above 400/450. We occasionally get smoke roll out when opening the door but not often. It seems like I have to mess with it too often. We also have issues with wind. Basically if it is windy we can not use the stove as the wind comes down the chimney and smoke leaks out. One time it put the fire out for an instant and then it started up again. I have a feeling my chimney may not be tall enough and not high enough above the roof peak. But how high can a metal chimney go? Some angles it looks like it is a little taller than the peak and others it looks like it isn't.

I will include all the information I can and add some pictures.

Stove-Jotul F500 V2 non-cat with OAK

Stove pipe from stove up to chimney support-53 inches. It is double walled.

From chimney support box to chimney cap is probably around 15ft. I have no idea what type of pipe it is.

There is at least one 30 degree elbow maybe 2. Not positive.

Wood we are currently using-It is oak. It has been split, stacked and top covered for over 3 years. We tested some splits (same rack same wood) last year by getting it to room temp, splitting and testing the inside with moisture meter. It was 18 and 19%. I am going to have my husband check again when it gets a little warmer out. You would think after over 3 years this stuff would be dry.

House is 2700 sq ft. Main floor and a walk out basement. Stove is on the main level.

We live on the side of a mountain but not really high altitude. We are about at 1700 feet.

Start up stove with top down method.

I want to have some knowledge before calling someone to get this straightened out.

I have included some pictures. It is hard to get a pic of the chimney outside.

Thoughts?

 

[DAKSY]

Your air control lever mechanism may be the culprit. Let the fire die out & remove the doghouse located at the base of the firebox, just inside the center of the door opening. Check to see if the lever actually opens & closes the air control… If there are 30 degree elbows, there must be 2 in order to keep the stack vertical.

 

[fire_man]

This might help:

A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - How Wind Affects Chimney Performance

The Wood Heat Organization was formed to support the public in the responsible use of wood energy in the home. We fulfill our mandate by providing reliable information, by conducting research into wood heating-related issues and by representing the public interest in discussions of policies that...

www.woodheat.org

It appears from your photo you do have a cap on there.
Does it look like this which should have helped your situation?

 

[janice_m14]

I'm just here to say your home is amazingly beautiful, inside and out from what we can see in the photos. It must be great when you are able to enjoy a fire there!

 

[Ctwoodtick]

I remember the pics from another post you made. I’d still love to know what the wooden box that your ceiling box goes into is. Might not be relevant to your issue it just keeps grabbing my attention.

 

[stoveliker]

I agree with the above, but I would also check for leaks in the flue (see ctwoodtick's box remark too).
If y ou have a leak at a seam someplace, you'll end up sucking air there and decreasing the suction (draft) at the stove leading to anemic burning even with dry wood.

 

[JamieW]

Might be worth checking the screen on the outside air inlet to see if it’s obstructed with anything.

 

[vatmark]

I'll try to answer each of your questions:

DAKSY I will check that in a few days. Currently have a fire going.

fire man I am not positive about the cap. I believe it does have a band around it. Obviously it isn't helping. LOL

Janice thank you. We love our cabin.

Ctwoodtick I think they had to make that box because they needed to use an elbow or else the chimney would come out in the roof valley. I've included a pic of the front of the house which is similar to the back where the chimney is. You can see the valley where the 2 roofs meet. There was not much room in the ceiling for an elbow hence the box. I've also included a pic of the box when the house was being built.

stoveliker-I don't think we would be able to check seams on the chimney but if we can find someone to come out I can ask them to check. I can check the seams on the pipe in the house.

JamieW: OAK screen is clear. Just looked and took a pic.

 

[NickW]

Our zc fireplace in the Northwoods with an OAK takes forever to get good draft pulling with 19' straight up flue from a cold start. Doors open fine, close doors it dies. I get it roaring, close the doors mostly, let it go for awhile, close them all the way but don't latch, let it go, latch, let it go, shut the air a little, let it go, shut the air, etc. It's a slow process from a cold start. I do get to fully shut eventually. Doors open burns fine but doesn't heat the flue enough to pull enough air through the OAK so I have to go slow. Reloads go faster. Maybe the combination of the other factors are just causing a slow draft until it gets good and hot.

 

[JamieW]

Just trying to piece together the layout from pictures. I assume that’s the OAK inlet at front of house to the left? Judging from where the chimney is it looks like that make be a pretty long run to the stove? Maybe others with more experience can chime in….but if you go good with door open but die down with it closed, perhaps there’s too much restriction with that long run for the OAK.

 

[EbS-P]

Just trying to piece together the layout from pictures. I assume that’s the OAK inlet at front of house to the left? Judging from where the chimney is it looks like that make be a pretty long run to the stove? Maybe others with more experience can chime in….but if you go good with door open but die down with it closed, perhaps there’s too much restriction with that long run for the OAK.

Good suggestion disconnect the OAK. What is the moisture content of your wood? How long has it been split and stacked.

 

[NickW]

Split, stacked and covered in NC for 3 years should be good. OP stated 18-19% MC on a fresh warm split. I'm wondering if @JamieW may be on to it. Disconnect the OAK, maybe crack a window in the stove room as a test?

 

[vatmark]

JamieW The OAK exits out the back of the house not the front. I just measured. It is 8 1/2 feet from where it enters the stove underneath to where it exits the house.

NickW I have opened doors before and it made no difference. The house is far from tight. When we first moved in there were some areas where wind blew in sawdust from between the logs.

Ebs-P wood should be dry. Split and been stacked for over 3 years. We tested a few pieces last year from fresh split on room temp pieces. They were between 18-19%.

How in the world do you disconnect the OAK? There is no way of disconnecting the pipe that runs into the stove without destroying the piping they used. Can I use something to block the vent outside?

 

[JamieW]

JamieW The OAK exits out the back of the house not the front. I just measured. It is 8 1/2 feet from where it enters the stove underneath to where it exits the house.

NickW I have opened doors before and it made no difference. The house is far from tight. When we first moved in there were some areas where wind blew in sawdust from between the logs.

Ebs-P wood should be dry. Split and been stacked for over 3 years. We tested a few pieces last year from fresh split on room temp pieces. They were between 18-19%.

How in the world do you disconnect the OAK? There is no way of disconnecting the pipe that runs into the stove without destroying the piping they used. Can I use something to block the vent outside?

I dont think opening a door with the oak hooked up will yield any results due to the air inside the house not being able to get to the combustion air inlet with the oak hooked up.

Blocking the oak inlet with it still hooked up will completely starve the stove of air so dont so that.

 

[vatmark]

I dont think opening a door with the oak hooked up will yield any results due to the air inside the house not being able to get to the combustion air inlet with the oak hooked up.

Blocking the oak inlet with it still hooked up will completely starve the stove of air so dont so that.

OK thanks will not do that.

I did take the cover off the air control. It was fine. It opened and closed like it should. Since i had it open i put some graphite powder on it to keep it moving smoothly. I looked at a video of a guy taking a Jotul F600 Firelight air control cover off and under that cover was some kind of other plate which the guy called a protector plate. My Jotul F500 V2 didn't have that. Any idea if this something that should be on there or does the F500 not have that?

 

[fire_man]

Here is how I solved a drafting problem on my Progress Hybrid (back puffing badly):

1. I made sure there were no restrictions on existing setup (pipe clean all the way especially near cap)
2. Added 2 feet of stove pipe to flue
3. Problem solved

Your setup looks harder to add an extension but it may be worth considering if you run out of other options. In my case I was able to confirm it worked by adding short section of single wall pipe. It should be Class A if you add an extension.

 

[NickW]

Is the OAK possibly plugged with a dead mouse, chipmunk or bat...?

If your flue is the minimum height required for that stove, with some elbows, with an OAK; it is probably going to have a weak draft. You could try the slow and tedious method I described above and see if that helps.

I can't go from doors full open to doors closed in one step up in the Northwoods. It sucks too much room air keeping the flue too cool to establish strong enough draft to pull through the OAK. With the doors open all combustion air is coming from the room and nothing is coming through the OAK. As I close the doors in stages less air is able to get in allowing the flue to warm up a little, however air coming in over the top of the doors has almost a straight shot up the flue so it can only warm up so much. Once I get the doors closed but not latched it starts pulling some air through the OAK but still gets a little through the doors to keep combustion strong and is able to really start heating the flue. Then when I latch the doors all combustion air is coming through the OAK, that's when the whole system (stove mass and flue) finally can start heating up to operating temperature. Each step down in the air after latching the doors then allows it to get a little hotter.

 

[vatmark]

Here is how I solved a drafting problem on my Progress Hybrid (back puffing badly):

1. I made sure there were no restrictions on existing setup (pipe clean all the way especially near cap)
2. Added 2 feet of stove pipe to flue
3. Problem solved

Your setup looks harder to add an extension but it may be worth considering if you run out of other options. In my case I was able to confirm it worked by adding short section of single wall pipe. It should be Class A if you add an extension.

Is the OAK possibly plugged with a dead mouse, chipmunk or bat...?

If your flue is the minimum height required for that stove, with some elbows, with an OAK; it is probably going to have a weak draft. You could try the slow and tedious method I described above and see if that helps.

I can't go from doors full open to doors closed in one step up in the Northwoods. It sucks too much room air keeping the flue too cool to establish strong enough draft to pull through the OAK. With the doors open all combustion air is coming from the room and nothing is coming through the OAK. As I close the doors in stages less air is able to get in allowing the flue to warm up a little, however air coming in over the top of the doors has almost a straight shot up the flue so it can only warm up so much. Once I get the doors closed but not latched it starts pulling some air through the OAK but still gets a little through the doors to keep combustion strong and is able to really start heating the flue. Then when I latch the doors all combustion air is coming through the OAK, that's when the whole system (stove mass and flue) finally can start heating up to operating temperature. Each step down in the air after latching the doors then allows it to get a little hotter.

The OAK has a screen on it so I don't think a bat or mouse got in. The mouse would have to scale the wall about 7ft/8t and then fit through the screen. I know mice are good at getting through small openings but it would be quite the feat if they could squeeze through that screening. I attached pic of the OAK and you can see the screen size,

I am thinking the chimney is right on the cusp of being tall enough to get draft but then weather affects it. Todays fire went pretty well but the wind is also blowing from the south not the north. I have to wonder if the chimney being just barely tall enough that when there is any sort of wind coming from the north that it affects the fire?? When there is strong winds or winds that are gusting high I won't even bother using the stove. I just do not know enough about how all of it works.

 

[NickW]

I found one place that stated an additional 10-20' of flue might be necessary when adding an OAK. That seems excessive to me, however if you are at the minimum I can see why it struggles with draft. An extra 4 or 5 feet would probably work wonders but require a brace. If the house isn't "tight" as stated and you want to burn more, I would consider disconnecting the oak. There has to be a way to disconnect it from the stove and/or cleanly cut the duct.

 

[stoveliker]

The OAK has a screen on it so I don't think a bat or mouse got in. The mouse would have to scale the wall about 7ft/8t and then fit through the screen. I know mice are good at getting through small openings but it would be quite the feat if they could squeeze through that screening. I attached pic of the OAK and you can see the screen size,

I am thinking the chimney is right on the cusp of being tall enough to get draft but then weather affects it. Todays fire went pretty well but the wind is also blowing from the south not the north. I have to wonder if the chimney being just barely tall enough that when there is any sort of wind coming from the north that it affects the fire?? When there is strong winds or winds that are gusting high I won't even bother using the stove. I just do not know enough about how all of it works.

Where is the south, in the first pic you posted?
Wind getting over a ridge (trees, roof, or hill) can curl down and blow back in the chimney, increasing the pressure there and thus decreasing draft. Especially if the cap is not significantly above said ridge.

 

[Brawndo71]

The OAK has a screen on it so I don't think a bat or mouse got in. The mouse would have to scale the wall about 7ft/8t and then fit through the screen. I know mice are good at getting through small openings but it would be quite the feat if they could squeeze through that screening. I attached pic of the OAK and you can see the screen size,

I am thinking the chimney is right on the cusp of being tall enough to get draft but then weather affects it. Todays fire went pretty well but the wind is also blowing from the south not the north. I have to wonder if the chimney being just barely tall enough that when there is any sort of wind coming from the north that it affects the fire?? When there is strong winds or winds that are gusting high I won't even bother using the stove. I just do not know enough about how all of it works.

I'd check the OAK for any wasps/bees etc. Mine was similar to a laundry vent without damper, same size mesh as yours. The wasps would build nests in the 4" pipe up to a foot inside the house. It was pretty clogged. I put a finer mesh on it during the warm active months so wasps cannot get in there. I had to disassemble the pipe in the basement to clean out that section.

 

[vatmark]

Where is the south, in the first pic you posted?
Wind getting over a ridge (trees, roof, or hill) can curl down and blow back in the chimney, increasing the pressure there and thus decreasing draft. Especially if the cap is not significantly above said ridge.

When looking at the front of the house the south is to the right. The chimney is located on the left back side.....north side. When we get gusts of wind coming from the north that is mostly when we get backdrafting and get some smoke or smoke smell.

I do not know if this is helpful but I always have to prime the chimney. I use a torch and have to let it warm up for a few minutes. If I rush it and don't prime it long enough when I start the fire the smoke will swirl around in the stove a bit until the draft starts.

 

[vatmark]

I'd check the OAK for any wasps/bees etc. Mine was similar to a laundry vent without damper, same size mesh as yours. The wasps would build nests in the 4" pipe up to a foot inside the house. It was pretty clogged. I put a finer mesh on it during the warm active months so wasps cannot get in there. I had to disassemble the pipe in the basement to clean out that section.

We have a dryer vent rotary cleaner similar to a sooteater. I think I will try send that up the OAK when the weather clears. We do have wasps around here always making nests so that is a possibility.

 

[vatmark]

I found one place that stated an additional 10-20' of flue might be necessary when adding an OAK. That seems excessive to me, however if you are at the minimum I can see why it struggles with draft. An extra 4 or 5 feet would probably work wonders but require a brace. If the house isn't "tight" as stated and you want to burn more, I would consider disconnecting the oak. There has to be a way to disconnect it from the stove and/or cleanly cut the duct.

Ok this is going to sound really stupid but if the stove didn't have an OAK would that hole where the OAK pipe enters the stove underneath just be an open hole in the stove?

 

[EbS-P]

Ok this is going to sound really stupid but if the stove didn't have an OAK would that hole where the OAK pipe enters the stove underneath just be an open hole in the stove?

Yes. I would just disconnect it for my test.

Jotul 154335 Outside Air Adapter

Jotul 154335 Outside Air Adapter

www.rockymountainstove.com