I guess you are assuming no clay liner? You'd have a better idea...I'm pretty much just guessing. It is a straight shot down so there may well be plenty of room, as you said.
Need a better lighter
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well yeah the clay would have to be removed but that is not a big deal we do it all the time. And no there would not be room with the clay in there
So what is the procedure for converting to 45 elbows, and how much would it cost for parts? I'm assuming free labor by the hack who botched the install...
The guy not only has a short stack so a weak draft but he said he actually has a reverse draft. Blowing down the chimney and into the house. Seems that until he can resolve this issue it won't matter how tall the chimney is or how well insulated.
Maybe it's just me but I would be upset if a mason put those brick wing walls in front of my slider like that.
Maybe it's just me but I would be upset if a mason put those brick wing walls in front of my slider like that.
it would mean another elbow and another piece of pipe so $30-$40. I would not say the guy was nessecarily a hack. We will install stoves on short chimneys and many times it will work but if we do it we will always tell the customer ahead of time that their chimnye is short and it may cause problems and will give them options if it does happen.
That is pretty common with exterior chimneys till you get the draft going. It doesn't matter how much insulation you have on it that chimney is going to be cold and that air is going to drop down and out of the stove till you establish a draft. The insulation will make it much easier to get a draft going though. Either that or they have negative pressure in the house.
I can get a negative draft from my cold chimney if the dryer or the range hood is running. I wouldn't dare light kindling until the draft is going the right way!
Isn't it the case that the only way air could be sucked down a chimney into a home is if there is a force pulling it down? Perhaps the stack effect of a leaky home and a basement install, or perhaps a negative pressure device like a hood fan. A chimney being cold wouldn't be enough of a reason for an actual downward flow to set up. Just like a chimney won't draft upwards until heat is applied to power the flow.
Isn't it the case that the only way air could be sucked down a chimney into a home is if there is a force pulling it down? Perhaps the stack effect of a leaky home and a basement install, or perhaps a negative pressure device like a hood fan. A chimney being cold wouldn't be enough of a reason for an actual downward flow to set up. Just like a chimney won't draft upwards until heat is applied to power the flow.
No a cold chimney will do the same. The cold air will drop out of the stove when you open the door we see it all the time. We get it many times when cleaning. But a down draft from a cold chimney is usually pretty easy to reverse. And it usually wont cause problems once you get the fire going.
It sounds like the OP has bowed out of this thread . . . and may or may not be throwing in the towel on this stove/install if the problem is not resolved. It's too bad he bailed since it sounds like a lot of folks were hoping to maybe help them fix the problem . . . and for not a lot of extra money.
On the flip side . . . perhaps there will be a barely used Castine for sale next Spring?
On the flip side . . . perhaps there will be a barely used Castine for sale next Spring?
It's too bad he appears to have given up. He could very easily and cheaply add 2-3 feet of liner and brick to that chimney and probably fix his issue. Heck I'd send him the 5ft of liner I cut off mine if he just paid the shipping. Hate to see a guy not get the joy and satisfaction many of us receive in owning a fine wood stove.
For the benefit of anyone else who has similar problems, here's an update. I talked to the guy who sold me the stove. In his opinion, another 4-5 feet of chimney would be nice, but absolutely not necessary to get this stove working well for me. For starting, he suggested building a fire in the stove and stuffing a lot of extra paper in there. Then close the door for a minute to slow down the draft that I had pouring out. Then open the door, quickly light the paper and close it. I tried that this morning and that worked quite well. I'm keeping the "warm the stovepipe with a hairdryer" idea in my back pocket if I need it once the seriously cold weather arrives.
As far as my hot-stove draft issues go, he said that a poorly burning fire is going to cause more problems than a healthy one. He thought that if I need to open the door for whatever reason, I should crack the door for 30 seconds or so to get the draft cranking upwards before opening the door the rest of the way. I tried that today and it did seem to work well.
As far as my problems keeping the temperature under control, he checked some of the wood I've been burning and said that he feels it's over-seasoned. It's at least 6 years old. Not punky or rotten, but uber-dry. He suggested that I mix it in with my newer stuff that's about 10 months old.
As far as my hot-stove draft issues go, he said that a poorly burning fire is going to cause more problems than a healthy one. He thought that if I need to open the door for whatever reason, I should crack the door for 30 seconds or so to get the draft cranking upwards before opening the door the rest of the way. I tried that today and it did seem to work well.
As far as my problems keeping the temperature under control, he checked some of the wood I've been burning and said that he feels it's over-seasoned. It's at least 6 years old. Not punky or rotten, but uber-dry. He suggested that I mix it in with my newer stuff that's about 10 months old.
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
Glad to see you hanging tough. 
You'll get it figured out, sooner than you think.
You'll get it figured out, sooner than you think.
The colder it is out, the greater the differential will be between inside and outside temp, and the stronger your draft will be. It will get easier to run as it gets colder out.
That will help, but adding 3' would minimize all problems. At 5', you will have to brace.
If you're burning the dry stuff, you're going to have to cut the air sooner; You don't want too much of a new load gassing at once, or your stove will get too hot. You can try mixing wetter wood in, but the problem there is you might have the air open further to get it burning, and once it dries out, the stove can take off on you unless you are watching it and cut the air. All you can do is experiment with different approaches, and see what works. Good luck, and keep us updated.
An update on my issues...
To address the original question I asked, I found the Calico Hot Shot Wind-Resistant Utility Lighter on the Walmart website:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Calico-Hot-Shot-Wind-Resistant-Utility-Lighter/50036366
Unfortunately, the website said that none of the Walmarts near me stocked it. But when I went there for something else, I noticed the lighter display and found a rack of these for sale. I bought a couple and they're perfect. Good, strong orange flame that stays lit and ignites paper quickly. I also added a damper inline on my stove pipe, so my stove lighting issues are history.
As far as the draft issues go, I tried replacing my 90-degree stove pipe elbow with two 45-degree ones. After testing for a week, we didn't see any improvement, so I returned to the original setup. To get the two 45s in there, I had to move the stove out so that the front clearance came awfully close to the carpet, and it made for a crowded spot between the couch and the stove. And it just looked a little odd having it out there. It's kind of a narrow room.
I had my mason come back and add 4' of liner to the top of the existing chimney. This brings the total height from the top of the stove to the top of that pipe to 15' 1-1/4". This *did* give us some improvement. Things aren't perfect, and this is all still a learning process with this new stove. The first day we tried it, the temperature dropped to 13 overnight and didn't get above 23 during the day. In the few tests we tried, things were much better. But we have to wonder how much is the extension and how much is attributed to the colder weather. Since those couple of cold days, it's only been "chilly", by New England standards. Below freezing overnight, but up around 40 during the day. And although I don't think the smoke problem is as bad as it was before installing the extension, it's still an issue.
There are a couple other things working against me. Certainly, my inexperience with this stove, but also the not-seasoned-enough wood that I'm using.
There are two "worst case scenarios" that plague me. When I have a hot bed of coals and it's time to load the chamber again, I'll start adding wood to fill it. I've learned to plan ahead so I'm not picking through the log supply while the stove door is open, but even still, by time I'm still getting those last splits in, the first log is pumping up a lot of smoke, and there's not enough draft to take it up the flue. The other case is when one of the logs had a gnarly knot in it, and that section is dragging it's heels to be completely consumed. It appears to be time to add wood, but that little piece is still producing smoke. When I open the door, plumes come out. Not much I can do about that but to be aware of it and sure that everything is down to coals before I open the door.
Once I have a strong fire going, I can open the door wide and no smoke comes in at all for extended periods of time. Perhaps there's just no smoke to come out. But I'm guessing that it's because there is such a massive draft at that point that gets sucked up.
I believe that most of these problems will be resolved next season when I'm burning dry wood. But I have to get through this season.
But here's my question for today... Since my biggest problem is filling the stove with new splits, I could avoid the problem if I added less wood. I could just throw a couple of good-size splits on the coals and close the door before any smoke develops. I might have to leave the damper a little more open than with a full load, and from what I understand, stoves work less efficiently when only partially full. Plus it means having to tend it more often. But outside of what I've mentioned, is there any good reason to avoid partially filling the stove each time?
To address the original question I asked, I found the Calico Hot Shot Wind-Resistant Utility Lighter on the Walmart website:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Calico-Hot-Shot-Wind-Resistant-Utility-Lighter/50036366
Unfortunately, the website said that none of the Walmarts near me stocked it. But when I went there for something else, I noticed the lighter display and found a rack of these for sale. I bought a couple and they're perfect. Good, strong orange flame that stays lit and ignites paper quickly. I also added a damper inline on my stove pipe, so my stove lighting issues are history.
As far as the draft issues go, I tried replacing my 90-degree stove pipe elbow with two 45-degree ones. After testing for a week, we didn't see any improvement, so I returned to the original setup. To get the two 45s in there, I had to move the stove out so that the front clearance came awfully close to the carpet, and it made for a crowded spot between the couch and the stove. And it just looked a little odd having it out there. It's kind of a narrow room.
I had my mason come back and add 4' of liner to the top of the existing chimney. This brings the total height from the top of the stove to the top of that pipe to 15' 1-1/4". This *did* give us some improvement. Things aren't perfect, and this is all still a learning process with this new stove. The first day we tried it, the temperature dropped to 13 overnight and didn't get above 23 during the day. In the few tests we tried, things were much better. But we have to wonder how much is the extension and how much is attributed to the colder weather. Since those couple of cold days, it's only been "chilly", by New England standards. Below freezing overnight, but up around 40 during the day. And although I don't think the smoke problem is as bad as it was before installing the extension, it's still an issue.
There are a couple other things working against me. Certainly, my inexperience with this stove, but also the not-seasoned-enough wood that I'm using.
There are two "worst case scenarios" that plague me. When I have a hot bed of coals and it's time to load the chamber again, I'll start adding wood to fill it. I've learned to plan ahead so I'm not picking through the log supply while the stove door is open, but even still, by time I'm still getting those last splits in, the first log is pumping up a lot of smoke, and there's not enough draft to take it up the flue. The other case is when one of the logs had a gnarly knot in it, and that section is dragging it's heels to be completely consumed. It appears to be time to add wood, but that little piece is still producing smoke. When I open the door, plumes come out. Not much I can do about that but to be aware of it and sure that everything is down to coals before I open the door.
Once I have a strong fire going, I can open the door wide and no smoke comes in at all for extended periods of time. Perhaps there's just no smoke to come out. But I'm guessing that it's because there is such a massive draft at that point that gets sucked up.
I believe that most of these problems will be resolved next season when I'm burning dry wood. But I have to get through this season.
But here's my question for today... Since my biggest problem is filling the stove with new splits, I could avoid the problem if I added less wood. I could just throw a couple of good-size splits on the coals and close the door before any smoke develops. I might have to leave the damper a little more open than with a full load, and from what I understand, stoves work less efficiently when only partially full. Plus it means having to tend it more often. But outside of what I've mentioned, is there any good reason to avoid partially filling the stove each time?
You'll want 3-4 splits at a minimum and a small one to lay on the coals as the starter. From a pure efficiency standpoint, I read an EPA study that found the sweet spot is loading the firebox 2/3 full. That said, to control indoor temps, the best way to do that is to control the load size.
Although I was unaware of the specifics, I sort of knew this. The problem is that I'm getting a lot of smoke in my house, which is A Bad Thing (TM). I'm willing to lose some efficiency to maintain breathable air quality. I just wanted to be sure that there was nothing I was unaware of, like it would damage the fittings on the stove, or greatly increase the risk of chimney fires, or some such issue.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
I get a little smoke spillage sometimes. If you're not doing it already try opening the primary air all the way a minute or two before opening the door and open the door a crack and let it suck in some room air for a few seconds. It will fan the coals and send some heat up the flue. I've made this a habit and maybe this could help.
I am using a 3-1 mixture of unseasoned-seasoned.
I have been cracking the door an inch for about 30 seconds prior. I haven't tried opening the damper. I'll add that to my repertoire.
Thanks, guys.
I have been cracking the door an inch for about 30 seconds prior. I haven't tried opening the damper. I'll add that to my repertoire.
Thanks, guys.
By all means, open the damper all the way before opening the door of the stove and that should create a stronger draft. I'll frequently add just one or two good sized splits at a time when I have a nice fire going. I only load it fuller when I really need maximum heat and at night when I'm going to bed. Of course, my chimney runs 4-5 feet up, then six feet horizontal thru the wall and then a whopping 25 feet straight up the side of the house so draft has never been a problem unless it is really warm outside.
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