Need a better lighter

[enchant]

For as long as I can remember, I've been lighting my fires with these common cheap lighters that are probably created with gas grills in mind. They have a 5" tube and a trigger. They emit a modest yellow flame and always require two clicks on the trigger to start. Most discount place sell them for a buck each.

I recently installed a new stove and I'm having some trouble getting it going without smoke filling the room. This forum has a lot of great solutions for that, and I'm pretty sure I can resolve that problem. The most likely solution will be for me to start building top-down fires. But one thing I need to be able to do is to light everything and get the door closed in a hurry before the initial smoke can start billowing out.

I saw a video where someone was lighting their fire with a lighter similar to what I've been using, but instead of the lackluster yellow flame, it had a robust blue jet flame. I've seen these before, but not with the long snout. My biggest problem is that I don't know what these are called so I don't know what to search for on sites like Walmart or Amazon.

 

[Bioburner]

I use a trigger actuated propane torch. Yes I know they are not a buck or two. So many other uses around a home. Crème Brulee, taking the hair off the chicken to some heavy soldering and shrink tube.
Butane torch would be a good start for your search IMO
Welcome to the site.

 

[Woody Stover]

The most likely solution will be for me to start building top-down fires.

Welcome, enchant. Can you describe your chimney setup? Full stainless liner all the way up? How tall? What stove? (You can put your stove in your signature.) It's possible that once it gets colder and your draft is stronger, smoke roll-out may not be a problem. Until that happens, you can pre-heat the flue for more draft by burning a few pieces of crumpled newspaper or using a heat gun or hair dryer.
With a top-down start I get almost no smoke at first. There should be plenty of time for you to get the door closed before much smoke is created. I put bigger splits on the bottom/back, and small splits in the front/top of the load. Then I use a starter (a SuperCedar chunk or a Meeco Firelighting Square, split to half thickness and folded into a ^ inverted V.) I light a couple starters and place them on the small splits, then place a few kindling pieces so the flame can hit them. Then I close the door and it's off to the races.

 

[enchant]

I have an outside chimney dedicated to this woodstove. We just had it rebuilt this year by a mason who everyone agrees is the best around, so I have confidence that he did a good job. It's stainless steel lined and comes through the wall into the room, down a 3' long 6" pipe to my new Jotul 400F Castine stove. Prior to this, I had a Jotul 602. With that stove, I was able to reach up into the vertical stove pipe, put a crumpled piece of newspaper and light it. This would instantly get it hot and I'd have a great draft to start my fire.

With this new stove, when I open it up, I feel a strong draft of cold air coming out. I've always built a traditional fire with paper on the bottom, kindling, and larger logs on the top. With this new stove, lighting this just blows smoke into the room. So now I have a no-win scenario. To stop the smoke, I have to keep the door and damper closed tightly. But now the infant fire goes out. Open the damper to give it air, and smoke streams into the room.

HOWEVER... I'm not a fan of asking questions that have been answered to death, and I did find a lot of good info in old posts. I'm going to build top-down fires. I'm also going to try using my wife's hair dryer on the cold stove pipe. If that looks like it'll work, Harbor Freight has a heat gun for short money.

I'm also thinking that I should have had a damper installed on the stove pipe. My installer said it wasn't necessary, but when not using it, I have to believe that some of the cold air is leaching out through the stove.

Thanks for the welcomes, but the truth is that I'm really not that new to the site. I'm sure I registered many years ago and made a few posts, but I've only been a lurker for the past decade or so. I've had this email since about '92. Maybe I registered using a work email.

 

[NhRocks]

Enchant, it sounds like you may be describing the Scripto Windresistant lighter. It looks like a regular long lighter but produces a torchlike flame. It is a pretty good product. It is carried by Home Depot and Amazon.

 

[edyit]

i use a propane torch to light my top down starts, light it, point it into the firebox let it heat the air up for about 30 seconds or so to get draft fully established, hit the kindling with it for 15 seconds or so, then leave the door cracked for a few minutes till the fire gets fully established, then just start dialing back the air as needed.

 

[Bioburner]

Bernzomatic is another torch like lighter that's in my household drawer I like to use to light candles.

 

[enchant]

The Lowes down the street from me appears to carry that Scripto lighter as well! That definitely looks like what I'd like. I found a lot of butane torches, but they invariably have a short-ish tube and are geared toward culinary use. Terrific looking flame, but it might be tricky reaching the back corner of the newspaper, or that firestarter down in between the logs.

Thanks!

 

[Slow burn]

+ 1 0n the propane torch

 

[Woody Stover]

I have an outside chimney dedicated to this woodstove.....It's stainless steel lined and comes through the wall into the room, down a 3' long 6" pipe to my new Jotul 400F Castine stove.
I'm going to build top-down fires. I'm also going to try using my wife's hair dryer on the cold stove pipe. If that looks like it'll work, Harbor Freight has a heat gun for short money. I'm also thinking that I should have had a damper installed on the stove pipe.

What would you say is the total stack height from the top of the stove to the top of the liner? Is this a rigid chimney liner or class A insulated? If rigid, is it insulated? I believe the Castine is one Jotul that is a bit picky about draft on shorter stacks. The two 90 elbows will also subtract effective height from the stack. Some have used two 45s instead of 90s but I'm not sure how to do that when you go through a wall. On a short stack, you might also consider adding 3' of chimney to the top (you would need bracing above 5'.) Draft should improve once it gets colder out but if you're like me, you need heat before it gets real cold. Here, if outside temps go 60/40 for a couple days, I'm firing up, especially if it's breezy. If you already have a propane or mapp gas torch, that will really throw some heat up that chimney to get it drawing. As far as the pipe damper, they don't seal all the well, and they have holes in the plate so it may not help too much.

 

[firefighterjake]

I honestly think your issue is not in buying a new lighter . . . but in the chimney. Not all woodstoves are created equal and some are very finicky when it comes to the draft.

In early fall and late spring I sometimes have a problem with the draft when the outside and inside temps are relatively close to each other. During winter this is never a problem though.

To fix a bad draft you may need to extend your chimney (if possible) . . . or you may be able to fix the reverse draft by other means such as using a hair dryer, candle, or propane torch to warm up the stove prior to lighting the fire. In my case, typically I can fix this problem by opening a nearby window a few inches and leaving it and the door to the woodstove open for a few minutes.

Incidentally, welcome to hearth.com.

 

[St. Coemgen]

I agree with others here, it seems to be mostly a chimney issue.

I use to have smoke blow back until I replaced our masonry chimneys with new insulated lined chimneys. Have not had a draft problem since. Not even in spring or fall.

But replacing a chimney is not only expensive, but it is a major remolding project. So first also consider just installing a chimney fan to improve your draft.

And it is hard to go wrong with a top down burn. Now the only method I use. And I start it the old fashioned way: with a match. (So not quite the hipster way of using just steel and flint). Wish I knew the top down method a decade ago, when I spent way too much time struggling with trying to get a fire started from the bottom.

 

[enchant]

Thanks for the suggestions. To answer a couple question, it's a solid brick chimney with an insulated stainless steel liner. I'd say the top of the chimney is about 15' above the top of the stove. We just had the chimney replaced this year, and making further structural modifications to it at this point isn't an option. We've put much more money into this whole project than we wanted to. Yesterday was the coldest day so far this season with temps around 35F when I woke up. It probably got up to about 50 early in the afternoon when I let the fire die out. I'm praying that colder days will provide a better draft, but after yesterday, we're a little heartsick about how much we spent on this stove and how poorly it's working for us.

I think the starting issue can be resolved, but one of the primary reasons that we replaced our old Jotul 602 is that I didn't want to have to tend it so often. I wanted to fill the stove full of wood and let it burn for five hours without having to deal with it. After yesterday, I wonder if that'll ever happen. Of course, the damper has no actual "settings" marked on it, but let's pretend that if it did, the settings go from 0 to 10. With a decent bed of coals, I can put in a single log, and with the damper set to about 3, I get a manageable fire that's burning around 550. But it only lasts about 45 minutes until I have to put another log on. So I tried putting three logs in. This didn't come close to filling it, but I just wanted to try a test. I waited till it looked like it was cooking pretty good, then I slid the damper down to about 2. After about five minutes, I came back and the temperature was rising over 650, so I closed down the damper almost completely closed, but with the minutest of tweaks open. Let's say I set it to about 0.5.

At that point, I got involved in something and didn't get back to check the stove for another 30 minutes. The the fire was roaring, and my simple dial thermometer was pegged at 800. I used a IR thermometer, and the hottest spots on the top were about 775. I closed the damper that last tiny bit and watched it. It looked like it was calming down some, so I left it. About 20 minutes later, I came back and there were no flames whatsoever. The thermometer showed that the temperature was down around 400.

So it looks like my only option is to feed it one log at a time and keep coming back every 45 minutes.

The other issue we have is with the smoke. After the fire had been really going for four hours or so, every time I opened the door (slowly) to tend it or add wood, smoke comes into the room. It doesn't billow in like there's a reverse draft. It just wafts in. And quite a bit of it.

We'll see what the colder weather brings, but at this point, my wife and I are pretty sick about it. We're not terribly wealthy, and the $3000 to buy the stove and get it installed was a scary amount of money for us. At this point, simply sealing off that room from the rest of the house for the winter is looking like an option.

 

[revdocjim]

Sorry to hear that things aren't running smoothly with the new setup. Just out of curiosity, why did you think the F400 would require less tending than the F600?

 

[enchant]

Sorry to hear that things aren't running smoothly with the new setup. Just out of curiosity, why did you think the F400 would require less tending than the F600?

I've read in several places of people filling the stove before they go to bed and it runs through most of the night. I'm assuming they're not getting up out of bed every hour to tend it.

 

[enchant]

Here is another thing that may or may not be an issue. I might just have to learn how to operate this stove better. After doing the test I mentioned above with three logs, I tried the same thing with two logs. Got them burning well and turned the damper almost all the way down. Had very similar results, so I closed the damper down completely. This time I stayed around, and although the flames coming up from the logs almost completely died out, the secondary combustion at the ceiling of the stove was cranking and continued for about half an hour before abating. I took a video of it to show what I'm talking about. In the video, the dial thermometer shows nearly 900, but it's inaccurate. An infrared thermometer showed the temperature was closer to 750.

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[St. Coemgen]

So it looks like my only option is to feed it one log at a time and keep coming back every 45 minutes.

Just using one piece of wood is very inefficient. See http://woodheat.org/concise-guide.html:

Avoid loading only one or two pieces at a time on a coal bed – most often they will not burn completely because heat is lost from the pieces faster than it is produced by burning. A minimum of three pieces is needed to form a sheltered pocket of glowing coals that sustains the fire.


And also for general information: http://woodheat.org/build-maintain-fire.html

 

[St. Coemgen]

The other issue we have is with the smoke. After the fire had been really going for four hours or so, every time I opened the door (slowly) to tend it or add wood, smoke comes into the room. It doesn't billow in like there's a reverse draft. It just wafts in. And quite a bit of it.

A hot fire burning for some hours should not have much if any obvious smoke in the firebox.

So this really seems to still be a draft issue, but it also may be you are starving the fire of oxygen if you have a lot of smoke in the fire box after four hours.

I assume your wood is well seasoned and it is dry.

 

[enchant]

I assume your wood is well seasoned and it is dry.

Extremely well seasoned. I have to wonder if it might be TOO seasoned. We had several oak trees taken down on our property 6.5 years ago and this is the last cord from that supply.

 

[enchant]

Sorry to hear that things aren't running smoothly with the new setup. Just out of curiosity, why did you think the F400 would require less tending than the F600?

I'm sorry, I've been saying "600". It was the small 602, not the F600.

 

[SteveKG]

How about using a wooden match

 

[jatoxico]

Never have had a top down fire get my draft going in the right direction when it's reversed, just pulls air from the chimney and smokes the house. I have to move a baffle plate (Skamol brick) to access the flue and burn a piece of newspaper first then put the brick back. Don't know if you can do that with the 400.

 

[ddahlgren]

Bernzomatic propane torch like you would use to solder pipes.

 

[WES999]

I would use this^
Bernzomatic TS8000 torch.

Preheat the flue for a few minutes get the draft going, as it sounds like you have reverse draft.

Then do this^, open the door just enough to stick the torch inside the stove, and lite ( use a fire-starter )
this should reduce smoke spillage.

Once you use a torch you will wonder why used anything else.

 

[begreen]

Your stove looks like it's burning fine once the flue heats up. You may notice a nice improvement once winter temperatures set in. With good draft the secondaries will kick in and burn robustly with a 400F stove top. You will find that you need to shut down the air all the way sooner, or the stove will get quite hot. Thicker splits will help extend the burn time. Fully packed with big leaf maple and alder I would get about 4-6 hr burn times from the stove depending on how hard I was pushing it. With hardwood in milder weather (30-45F) the stove would still have good coals for a restart at 8hrs..

Note that the manual shows thermometer placement at the sides of the stovetop patterned area. Here's a shot of the Castine cruising at 675º stovetop.