Nearly impossible to reverse draft - basement install

[bens_igloo]

Hi,

I know there is a very similar thread going on right now, but I feel this situation is a bit different and I didn't want to hi-jack the existing thread.

I'm in a recently renovated 1960s bungalow, re-insulated with 2x6 insulation + R7.5 foamboard on the entire exterior. To my knowledge it is knowledge reasonably well sealed.

When we moved in last year we installed a blaze king princess standalone upstairs and a PE summit in the basement. Both are hooked to new double-walled chimney systems.The reason for the different type stoves is that upstairs we run non stop, whereas in the basement the stove I only run when we spend time there or when we have guests, so say 4 to 10 times a month.

Upstairs the stove runs great, but downstairs it is extremely difficult to get draft reversed on a cold start. Thankfully once the basement stove has a good draft I've never had any issues with back-puffing, smoke infiltration or draft reversal during the coaling stage. But on startup is is quite frustrating. I've tried news paper, propane torch, opening windows, opening the door (walk-out basement), turning off the furnace, etc. It seems like the heat source I provide gets blown back in the house before ever getting into the chimney system and heating it up quickly enough to reverse the draft.

The basement chimney has two 45's in the basement and a 90 outside, followed by around 15 feet of straight run.

In my previous home, I had a Regency stove where, when I had to reverse the draft I could move the ceramic baffle out of way and shove a piece of lit news paper into the chimney. This always reversed the draft in short over. Unfortunately in the PE stove I can't just move the baffle out of the way to achieve the same effects.

Does anyone have ideas about what else I can try to reverse the downdraft??

 

[bholler]

Hi,

I know there is a very similar thread going on right now, but I feel this situation is a bit different and I didn't want to hi-jack the existing thread.

I'm in a recently renovated 1960s bungalow, re-insulated with 2x6 insulation + R7.5 foamboard on the entire exterior. To my knowledge it is knowledge reasonably well sealed.

When we moved in last year we installed a blaze king princess standalone upstairs and a PE summit in the basement. Both are hooked to new double-walled chimney systems.The reason for the different type stoves is that upstairs we run non stop, whereas in the basement the stove I only run when we spend time there or when we have guests, so say 4 to 10 times a month.

Upstairs the stove runs great, but downstairs it is extremely difficult to get draft reversed on a cold start. Thankfully once the basement stove has a good draft I've never had any issues with back-puffing, smoke infiltration or draft reversal during the coaling stage. But on startup is is quite frustrating. I've tried news paper, propane torch, opening windows, opening the door (walk-out basement), turning off the furnace, etc. It seems like the heat source I provide gets blown back in the house before ever getting into the chimney system and heating it up quickly enough to reverse the draft.

The basement chimney has two 45's in the basement and a 90 outside, followed by around 15 feet of straight run.

In my previous home, I had a Regency stove where, when I had to reverse the draft I could move the ceramic baffle out of way and shove a piece of lit news paper into the chimney. This always reversed the draft in short over. Unfortunately in the PE stove I can't just move the baffle out of the way to achieve the same effects.

Does anyone have ideas about what else I can try to reverse the downdraft??

A propane torch light it and let it sit in the stove a few mins

 

[Ludlow]

Clean and reverse draft in one death defying step! (Joking!)

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[begreen]

The Draw Collar was designed for this issue. It's a flue preheater.
http://www.drawcollar.com/

 

[Rickb]

Clean and reverse draft in one death defying step! (Joking!)

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WTF!

 

[weatherguy]

Clean and reverse draft in one death defying step! (Joking!)

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That's one way to clean it and piss off the neighbors all at the same time.

 

[jatoxico]

I'm in a recently renovated 1960s bungalow, re-insulated with 2x6 insulation + R7.5 foamboard on the entire exterior. To my knowledge it is knowledge reasonably well sealed.

It's not really the walls that need sealing. If you are going to improve the problem you would have seal the ceiling and attic area. Any sealing of leaky penetrations to the attic would help, stairs light fixtures etc.

Have you ever tried to start the basement stove without the first floor stove running? Is it worse or better? I imagine that loss could contribute to negative pressure too.

 

[begreen]

Quadrafire has a good advisory page on the topic of negative pressure.

 

[Ludlow]

WTF!

Probably a coal stove in reality.

 

[jatoxico]

Probably a coal stove in reality.

That's a pellet stove thing. Leaf blower method.

 

[begreen]

That's a pellet stove thing. Leaf blower method.

Russian style, probably coal stove.

 

[bens_igloo]

A quick update. Even with the suggestions above (well, except that crazy Russian contraption which I did not try), reversing the draft in PE Summit remains a challenge.

I did find one approach that works: because I have a telescoping pipe section right above the stove, I can unscrew the 3 sheet metal screws, raise the pipe a few inches and generate heat directly in the pipe. With heat going right into the pipe as opposed to just in the stove, the draft is reversed almost instantly. Are there any reasons why I should NOT do this on the few occasions when I run into this issue?

 

[Ludlow]

Leave the door open a little all the time. The draft will be there whenever you want to start the stove.

 

[begreen]

A quick update. Even with the suggestions above (well, except that crazy Russian contraption which I did not try), reversing the draft in PE Summit remains a challenge.

I did find one approach that works: because I have a telescoping pipe section right above the stove, I can unscrew the 3 sheet metal screws, raise the pipe a few inches and generate heat directly in the pipe. With heat going right into the pipe as opposed to just in the stove, the draft is reversed almost instantly. Are there any reasons why I should NOT do this on the few occasions when I run into this issue?

If it is reversing this easily then I'd think that a heat gun or propane torch aimed for a few minutes above the baffle would also work. That would be less hassle. Harbor Freight sells cheap heat guns.

 

[maple1]

A quick update. Even with the suggestions above (well, except that crazy Russian contraption which I did not try), reversing the draft in PE Summit remains a challenge.

I did find one approach that works: because I have a telescoping pipe section right above the stove, I can unscrew the 3 sheet metal screws, raise the pipe a few inches and generate heat directly in the pipe. With heat going right into the pipe as opposed to just in the stove, the draft is reversed almost instantly. Are there any reasons why I should NOT do this on the few occasions when I run into this issue?

I can't imagine doing that every time I wanted to start a fire.

I have always been able to get draft established just by stuffing a ball of newspaper against the stove breach from inside - but maybe that isn't possible with your PE? (No experience here with that stove).

 

[brazilbl]

If it is reversing this easily then I'd think that a heat gun or propane torch aimed for a few minutes above the baffle would also work. That would be less hassle. Harbor Freight sells cheap heat guns.

I bought one of these cheap heat guns. I had a propane torch, but I was nervous having *that* around kids, so I tried the heat gun. What I liked about the heat gun, is that I can place the heat gun in the firebox, pointing upward up the flue with the attached stand on the gun, get it going while I prepare the kindling/starter. When I'm ready, the firebox has some heat and apparently, enough of that hot air up the flue to allow me to light and monitor it.

 

[barnaclebob]

Have you tried blasting a heat gun or propane torch behind the airwash and above the baffle/secondary air shelf thing? What about shoving a ball of newspaper up there, lighting it, then pushing it back to under the chimney with a wire?

 

[Riddlefiddle]

Awesome!

 

[jetsam]

A quick update. Even with the suggestions above (well, except that crazy Russian contraption which I did not try), reversing the draft in PE Summit remains a challenge.

I did find one approach that works: because I have a telescoping pipe section right above the stove, I can unscrew the 3 sheet metal screws, raise the pipe a few inches and generate heat directly in the pipe. With heat going right into the pipe as opposed to just in the stove, the draft is reversed almost instantly. Are there any reasons why I should NOT do this on the few occasions when I run into this issue?

If that works, putting a lit torch in the stove and closing the door should also work pretty fast.

Nothing wrong with your method other than it's annoying, and wear on the pipe and screwholes.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

If you don't have a heat gun I've used a hair dryer. Not sure if that has enough heat for you OP but it works great for my fireplace or the one time I was getting a downdraft in my Blaze King Stove.