Draft problems?

[Wildflush]

Since our pitch is not that steep on the back of our house with a full shed dormer we don’t need to be above our ridge.

 

[wetwood4life]

Yeah, hard to tell from the ground too, the angles are weird, and not much space to see it from further away. Sounds like I need to go looking for a (different!!) installer to try adding another 4' and appropriate bracing for the new height.

Thank you all!

 

[Wildflush]

Just confirm you are indeed inside 10’ horizontal with the installer.

 

[begreen]

Ah, I misunderstood earlier when you said breather I thought that was the chimney cap. Are Hearthstones, or the Castleton specifically tight on air? Would a Vermont Castings have been better in this respect? We considered one but ultimately chose the Hearthstone obviously.

Both of these brands require at least a 16' flue system and prefer a stronger draft than some others like Osburn, Regency, or PE stoves.

PS: I heard back right away from Northline. They agree that the picture is in error and are pulling that incorrect illustration.

 

[30WCF]

@begreen just being curious here?
What do you mean in this case by easy breather? Wouldn’t cracking the door for a bit before opening it for a reload mimic an easy breather, or is an easy breather a hotter flue temp which would hold draft better, longer for the reload?

 

[30WCF]

Should there be a wall strap just below the roof? I’m not sure if 8’ is a solid rule, but I’d feel better if it didn’t look like 10.5’ between supports.

 

[ctreitzell]

Good question. I don't need to preheat, but if I did I would probably use my Harbor Freight heat gun above the baffle. That should keep ash stirring to a minimum.

Oh, heat gun! I hadn’t thought of that! I might try that next cold start

 

[ctreitzell]

No never hairdryer pointed to the inside middle front toward flue for 2 min. Works every time and no ash blowing back at me. Just did it actually since I’m late starting a fire.

Need to buy a torch since hairdryer won’t work if I lose power.

I don’t have ashes blowing in either when I use hairdryer to preheat my flue…but my access is a cleanout outside.

Good point about the torch if electric outage. Lighting Newspaper could work too, but if it’s very windy probably not possible.

 

[ctreitzell]

Do you guys have problems with ash blowing back into the room while you're preheating the flue?

No…

the reason I get ashes and embers falling out of the stove is when I open the air intake before opening the door, the draft increases and wood burns more intensely and embers pops off the logs of ash and oak and chestnut…alongside the very low profile firebox of my stove, something always falls onto the hearth…I have a galvanised scoop always positioned under the hinge side to catch the droppings ;-P

My stove is very dangerous when opening the door as the baffle throws the flames at the window/door. I’ve learned to deal with it and try not to add when flaming, but sometimes needs to be done. Have to be very careful and open very slowly.

I don’t get any ashes blowing back when preheating.

 

[bigealta]

Ok there's your problem. Don't open the door when flames are rolling down it.
Light a top down, let it burn till coals, then reload onto coals.
Do not open again till burned down to coals again.
Repeat.
This means pay attention to your load so that it doesn't need any adjustment while burning.

 

[wetwood4life]

Should there be a wall strap just below the roof? I’m not sure if 8’ is a solid rule, but I’d feel better if it didn’t look like 10.5’ between supports.

Yeah, probably... I've heard 5' and I've heard 8'. I realized during this thread that in addition to being too short, the installer also didn't correctly support the chimney. I'd wonder how that company is still in business, but I guess it's ignorant folks like us who don't know what to watch out for.

Do not open again till burned down to coals again... This means pay attention to your load so that it doesn't need any adjustment while burning.

I don't know about others, but every load burns differently for me. Also, the very back of my stove doesn't get a lot of air, so sometimes I'll pull that last log forward with the coals to prep for a reload. Granted, we've established in this thread my chimney isn't tall enough, but I think it's reasonable to occasionally adjust the load while burning. If nothing else, it's a good learning experience to see what structures work better than others for your stove.

 

[bigealta]

Yeah, probably... I've heard 5' and I've heard 8'. I realized during this thread that in addition to being too short, the installer also didn't correctly support the chimney. I'd wonder how that company is still in business, but I guess it's ignorant folks like us who don't know what to watch out for.


I don't know about others, but every load burns differently for me. Also, the very back of my stove doesn't get a lot of air, so sometimes I'll pull that last log forward with the coals to prep for a reload. Granted, we've established in this thread my chimney isn't tall enough, but I think it's reasonable to occasionally adjust the load while burning. If nothing else, it's a good learning experience to see what structures work better than others for your stove.

With weak draft it's even more important to keep the door closed. I have a somewhat light draft too and learned that is the way to go to keep smoke and ash to a bare minimum. To get air to the back of your stove put sleepers or spacers between splits to lift them a bit allowing more air flow thru the whole load.

 

[wetwood4life]

That's a good idea, I'll try that out sometime. You just use some smaller diameter wood to get everything off the floor?

If I have enough coals, I'll rake them left & right with an air tunnel down the middle (heard it from someone on this forum). The wood sits up on the coals. It takes a little longer to catch, but puts out nice even heat once it does.

 

[bigealta]

That's a good idea, I'll try that out sometime. You just use some smaller diameter wood to get everything off the floor?

If I have enough coals, I'll rake them left & right with an air tunnel down the middle (heard it from someone on this forum). The wood sits up on the coals. It takes a little longer to catch, but puts out nice even heat once it does.

Yeah you can use sticks or wood scraps, something like 3/4" thick to 1 1/2" or 2" thick or so.
I've tried the coal tunnel but it doesn't work that great for me.

 

[30WCF]

I think I get some smoke in the house when I have a floor fan pointed at the stove, and not when it’s not on.

 

[bigealta]

I think I get some smoke in the house when I have a floor fan pointed at the stove, and not when it’s not on.

I always turn fan off before i open the door, otherwise it will blow smoke and ash out the door.

 

[garjess]

You know what... I forgot about the 3/2/10 rule. I don't think our chimney follows that!

I think we have a 12/12 roof (45 degree angle). So 10' horizontal clearance needs 10' vertical, plus the 2' means we need 12' from the drip edge.

Our install only has two 4' sections of chimney above the drip edge. You can just see the seams in the phot

Does anyone think it would help to add another 4' section to the chimney? The cold starts are just one symptom, and I'd really wish to fix this wholesale and be done with it, but don't want to go chasing changes that won't help.

Did you find a solution? I have the Mansfeld and have exactly the same problem.

 

[wetwood4life]

No solution yet. Been slammed at home & work, so we've just been burning oil instead of bothering with the stove. We'll probably only end up burning on the few days it's cold enough to have draft (10-20F outside, typically 25-30F here).

Saw your other thread that adding more chimney didn't help. We don't really have the luxury due to the height/bracing needs. I'm coming to think we have a natural high pressure/down draft outdoors where our chimney is, and the stove just can't overcome it. But also thinking the beautiful Hearthstone is a bit of a princess. I need to monkey with it every 30-60 minutes during a burn. I'd definitely buy a mainstream brand if there's ever a next time. Too many design quirks here.

Speaking of, I'm not sure how other stoves are laid out, but I believe part of the problem is Hearthstone taking exhaust from the top front of the firebox. So if draft isn't solid, or if you have extra smoke for any reason, it's always going to roll out the door when you open up.

 

[stoveliker]

I believe most modern tube stoves have their exhaust in the front as well, courtesy of the baffle.
(I don't know the internal layout of your stove tho.)

 

[Plynwfire]

If that is a 12/12 pitch from your gutter up you will need a total of 144'' of flue to meet code. That looks to not be quite a 12/12. on 11/12 it is 134'' 10/12 is 124''. Another issue is the trees I see close by, you for sure could be getting downdraft. Something to consider would be a Lopi stove. Model Endeavor or Liberty. This is a medium and/or large stove and they can heat close to 2000+ sq. ft. It has as an option called green start ignition system. Simply put an ignitor that is introduced into the firebox that not only makes it easy to ignite your kindling and wood but also forces hot air up the flue system to get a good draw going. It has a mini compressor that plugs into a wall outlet. This is one of the best innovations to come out in sometime for wood stove in my opinion. I have been in the fireplace and stove industry for 32 years. Well worth looking into.

 

[stoveliker]

but that igniter would not help with (hot) reload smoke spilling issues?

 

[wetwood4life]

Interesting they all exhaust at the front, I figured there'd be more variation in manufacturers. I have a friend with a Vermont Casting that seems to exhaust at the back, but I haven't looked at it too much to know for sure.

I didn't follow up, but I measured the pitch inside - we're like 9.5/12". The chimney is still too short, but only by a foot or two.

What's my solution if there's a downdraft from the neighbor's trees? Will more height help, or I'm just SOL?

That green start sounds cool, but I don't know what we'd do with this stove. I don't see anyone locally wanting to buy a 2nd hand stove, maybe I'm wrong. And honestly at this point, if we managed to sell this stove, we'd probably just plug the chimney, reclaim the floor space, and put this chapter behind us.

 

[stoveliker]

If you're short, it'll help to add length.
If it's because of trees/downdraft, it's unlikely to help.

 

[ctreitzell]

Ok there's your problem. Don't open the door when flames are rolling down it.
Light a top down, let it burn till coals, then reload onto coals.
Do not open again till burned down to coals again.
Repeat.
This means pay attention to your load so that it doesn't need any adjustment while burning.

oh, I didn't see this until now

I wasn't being clear; I'm more trying to warn other Panadero users who might not grasp the danger until it's too late. Clearly I'm the only Panadero user posting, tho, afaiaa.

I've got reloading down pretty well now after year two. I think you'd be pretty annoyed with me if you witnessed me paying attention to whatever the current load is, I'm all too highly aware and mindful of the current load and prepare various options ready to go for reload Apologies for the diversion of this topic.

 

[gruesome]

I realize this has been going on for a while, but the last posts didn't make it sound like it was solved.
Anyways, I'd suggest getting some construction lumber (or cheap cutoffs) from indoor storage at a lumber yard, and trying with known 100% dry wood. If a full size load fire of that still shows the same problem, then the chimney might have to be extended a lot, or the trees cut down.