Getting Smoked out of Basement

[Hunt]

I appreciate everyone’s time in responding to this thread, I’ll keep updated on my results.

 

[bigealta]

I appreciate everyone’s time in responding to this thread, I’ll keep updated on my results.

Good luck, there is always very much discussion on draft issues just like yours. Finding the solutions and / or further troubleshooting are helpful to everyone here.

Double and triple check your wood. It is most often the problem in these smoke issues, even though no one wants to believe it.

 

[EbS-P]

If it’s really that tight you might need to look into an ERV that is adjustable to intake more than it exhausts.

 

[Hunt]

If it’s really that tight you might need to look into an ERV that is adjustable to intake more than it exhausts.

That’s not an option for me right now. I was considering an auto draft fan.

 

[stoveliker]

I would consider a draft fan only as a last resort.
It can fail. A chimney does not fail (if it stays clean). Physics is more reliable than electricity.

What happens if the power goes down?
Remember that when smoke comes in, evidently for some reason the gas flow up the flue is not enough. That also means that CO can come in. I'd want to be able to rely on the stove and its safety also (in particular) when the power is down.

Are your CO (and smoke) detectors up to date (not expired), have fresh batteries? Every floor etc.?

 

[Hunt]

I would consider a draft fan only as a last resort.
It can fail. A chimney does not fail (if it stays clean). Physics is more reliable than electricity.

What happens if the power goes down?
Remember that when smoke comes in, evidently for some reason the gas flow up the flue is not enough. That also means that CO can come in. I'd want to be able to rely on the stove and its safety also (in particular) when the power is down.

Are your CO (and smoke) detectors up to date (not expired), have fresh batteries? Every floor

This is why I was considering it, but there comes a point of diminishing return where I’m installing all these bells and whistles just to have a wood burning fireplace. Seems entirely counterintuitive. I’m pretty frustrated at this whole thing, my kids are young and I’m very aware of CO2 or else I wouldn’t have posted my questions. Appreciative of all the help provided here.

 

[stoveliker]

Did the chimney person that tried to light a fire have a manometer to measure the draft?
In the end that is the determining factor. Not many do, which is why mfg's recommend flue heights (b/c flue heights have a direct relation to draft thru physics), but it's the draft (underpressure in the flue) that matters.

Anyway, you have some things to think about and consider. Good luck, stay safe.

 

[Hunt]

Temperatures picked up today, but it’s looking positive. Even lighting the fire the smoke is encourage to go up and not out. I will test on a cold evening to make sure this is it. I added 3’ to my chimney (obviously temporary).

 

[stoveliker]

Nice!

 

[xman23]

Startup and everytime the door opens even when the fire is good and hot.

Not good, almost like it's a pugged cap or something in the chimney.

 

[begreen]

I will add negative pressure in the basement can be due air leaks in the upper floors. Hot air out creates the negative pressures down lower. Time for a home energy audit to find leaks and try another few feet of pipe.

This is what appears to be happening. There are several causes and if this the case it will be a lot worse in milder (>45º) weather. Is there a radon exhaust in the basement? Have you tried opening the nearby window a inch to see if that helps?

Adding lenght to the chimney helps. Another small step that will help is changing out the 90º turn in the smoke pipe to an offset with 45's as mentioned in the manual.

 

[bigealta]

So i got smoked out pretty badly for 2 days on and off at my utah house monday and tuesday. When gusty winds are out of the NW i can get back puffing. My chimney is Very short, like maybe under 10 Ft. I have an old jotul 118 clone so it is an easier breather than the modern stoves but still the chimney is Too short.

But it breathes fine with no smoke spill as long as the wind is not from the NW.

So make note of your wind directions when it smokes.

Also you should check to make sure your furnace is not running, as well as the water heater, bath fan, kitchen hood or fan, radon fan etc. All those will help create neg. pressure.

Glad to see the 3 ft might be helping. Also i'd go for bigger fires and start them top down for sure. You would be amazed at the difference in smoke and overall performance of the Top Down Starts.

 

[bigealta]

Your load should look something like this.

 

[Hunt]

Your load should look something like this.

View attachment 327281

Of course, I learned that with my new Braunfels offset smoker. But this was a test day and it’s MT warm.

 

[stoveliker]

This is what appears to be happening. There are several causes and if this the case it will be a lot worse in milder (>45º) weather. Is there a radon exhaust in the basement? Have you tried opening the nearby window a inch to see if that helps?

Adding lenght to the chimney helps. Another small step that will help is changing out the 90º turn in the smoke pipe to an offset with 45's as mentioned in the manual.

I am not sure about the negative pressure. I quote from the first post:
"and we have tried everything from cracking windows to get fire started to relief any negative pressure, to opening door ultra slow when fire is good and hot."
If that does not help, to me that suggests it's good to look elsewhere.

The 45s (separated from each other), the radon (or any other suction, kitchen or bathroom fans) are obviously very worthy of consideration.

 

[gruesome]

For the OP's stove, the manufacturer makes a fresh air intake kit: https://supremem.com/documents/manuals/NOVO_EN_OM_JUN23.pdf That would solve any under-pressure related parts of the problem, and also increase the overall heating efficiency, since the stove wouldn't suck expensive heated air (excess air, beyond what is needed for combustion) out of the house.
The energy recovery heat exchanger is also a good suggestion, if it can be set to create a slight overpressure for the whole house.

 

[bigealta]

T

For the OP's stove, the manufacturer makes a fresh air intake kit: https://supremem.com/documents/manuals/NOVO_EN_OM_JUN23.pdf That would solve any under-pressure related parts of the problem, and also increase the overall heating efficiency, since the stove wouldn't suck expensive heated air (excess air, beyond what is needed for combustion) out of the house.
The energy recovery heat exchanger is also a good suggestion, if it can be set to create a slight overpressure for the whole house.

There is a no so great review on that kit for this stove somewhere on here. Or maybe it was reddit? i forget where i read it?

 

[gruesome]

Ma

T

There is a no so great review on that kit for this stove somewhere on here. Or maybe it was reddit? i forget where i read it?

Maybe just buy the adaptor, not the whole kit?

 

[begreen]

Ma

Maybe just buy the adaptor, not the whole kit?

The air intake for an OAK needs to be at or below the firebox floor in order to avoid reverse drafting. This is most important for OAKs that directly feed the stove air intakes. Some stoves have an air gap between the two to prevent this problem and can be connected in a basement. Not sure about the Supreme.

 

[30WCF]

It sounds like it’s the flue height, but I don’t think I’ve seen a moisture reading on any of the wood. Even the stove guys wood may not be dry enough. Grab a cheap meter when you get the pipe extensions. You will need it to check wood from time to time as you cycle through different years or species of wood.
What was known as good seasoned wood years ago, may not be dry enough for modern stoves.

 

[Hunt]

For the OP's stove, the manufacturer makes a fresh air intake kit: https://supremem.com/documents/manuals/NOVO_EN_OM_JUN23.pdf That would solve any under-pressure related parts of the problem, and also increase the overall heating efficiency, since the stove wouldn't suck expensive heated air (excess air, beyond what is needed for combustion) out of the house.
The energy recovery heat exchanger is also a good suggestion, if it can be set to create a slight overpressure for the whole house.

Thanks but can’t run an Air kit because installing it would put it above the air kit entrance on the stove which would make my situation worse.

 

[gruesome]

Thanks but can’t run an Air kit because installing it would put it above the air kit entrance on the stove which would make my situation worse.

It would not make it worse if you currently have negative pressure where the stove sits. Since it's flexible duct, can't you always make the duct intake sit below the stove level? Worst case, dig a hole...
(Seriously, since air is a factor 1000 less dense/heavy than water, it takes an awful lot of height difference between intake and stove to make up even a fraction of an inch of water vacuum (thousand times the vacuum level, so for 0.1" water vacuum the inlet could be almost 100 inches higher and still have a positive effect). So if you have any vacuum at any time in the room with the stove, the outside air intake will help. But I would also check for huge leaks into the chimney, or the chimney cap sitting too close to the roof surface.

If the chimney is made from proper chimney pipe, heat loss through the double or triple chimney wall shouldn't be a big factor.

 

[stoveliker]

If the chimney is made from proper chimney pipe,

And outside air kit pipe is not.
It's a fire hazard as the flow can reverse.
Don't end the OAK above the stove. Period.

 

[Hunt]

Temps dropped a bit so I did another test and had door open for 15 minutes while I got the fire started and Wife stayed in the room. 0 smoke. Got to temp fast.

Thanks for the support, now I just need to leverage my chimney guy to add the 3’ of double wall without charging me. God is good.

 

[stoveliker]

Nice. Do add a brace; 7 ft above the roof is a lot. High wind will apply quite some force.

Be aware of the higher draft. You'll have to be operate slightly differently. I.e. dial down the air a bit sooner and maybe a bit farther to get the same burns (times, heat output) etc.

Be aware that when the weather is warmer it may still be marginal. But it's good to get going like this and see how it goes.