My Geospring

[cableman]

I think they say we should run it over 120 or Legionnaire can set in?
The 50 gal prolly cycles more then 80 helping it suck humidity out. My basement was 69% this morning, i heard it kick on as i was leaving for work. Hasnt been on too long lately. Once or twice a day, never heard it kick on a 3rd. I can see if its been on cause the condensate hose will still be full for some time until it drops back into pump.

 

[Ashful]

A gallon a day is at least $60 a month and rising. HPWH is rated at about $13 a month depending on KWH rate. Mine is less cuz i pay 10c KWH not 12 which is the basis.

We pay 16.75c per kWh. God bless PECO.


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[Ashful]

I assume you mean you use 1.0 gallons of oil per day, on average, when you are using zero space heat. ?

The standby on most boilers is close to 1.0 gal/day. With an indirect even more so.

If you were actually using 110,000 BTUs/day of heat for DHW, you would be a very large user.

That is correct. Total oil usage during off-season is 1 gal/day. I can't say what part of that is standby loss vs usage, but standby loss in HPWH isn't exactly zero, either. No interest in having our hot water be less hot, as we have some pretty long runs, which cannot be insulated. So, our standby losses will always be above average, by maybe 50%.


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[woodgeek]

That is correct. Total oil usage during off-season is 1 gal/day. I can't say what part of that is standby loss vs usage, but standby loss in HPWH isn't exactly zero, either. No interest in having our hot water be less hot, as we have some pretty long runs, which cannot be insulated. So, our standby losses will always be above average, by maybe 50%.


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You're missing a point here. Standby losses in oil boilers are MUCH higher than in HPWHs. The latter are insulated all around with 1.5 or 2" of foam, the former with a half inch of FG in parts, and nothing anywhere else. Making just HW, oil systems often run 70-80% standby losses BEFORE the pipe runs. By comparison, the standby losses in HPWH are more like 10-15% tops.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

ID say standy loss is minimal in the HPWH iv been checking the temps of the external heat losers like the fittings and pressure relief valve. the hot water outlet is room temp when theres no draw,only place i could find a thermal leak is the Pressure relief valve which was about 85 degrees all the time.

 

[Ashful]

You're missing a point here. Standby losses in oil boilers are MUCH higher than in HPWHs. The latter are insulated all around with 1.5 or 2" of foam, the former with a half inch of FG in parts, and nothing anywhere else. Making just HW, oil systems often run 70-80% standby losses BEFORE the pipe runs. By comparison, the standby losses in HPWH are more like 10-15% tops.

Yep, got it. Wasn't missing that. Was just pointing out that the typical costs of running a HPWH are out the window when you run them 40F hotter than the temperature used in the calculations. Add to that our higher electric rates (17c vs. 12c), and the cost savings end up being a bit less.

 

[cableman]

ID say standy loss is minimal in the HPWH iv been checking the temps of the external heat losers like the fittings and pressure relief valve. the hot water outlet is room temp when theres no draw,only place i could find a thermal leak is the Pressure relief valve whinch was about 85 degrees all the time.

I pipe wrapped the pressure relief valve about 1/2 way down, gotta cut it so its fully covered. Im pretty much pipe wrapped through out the whole basement, just a couple of base board heating sections to finish.
Basement this morn is 71% humidity but it doesnt feel bad, not like outside.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Condensate is about a gallon a day, not enough to allow me to eliminate the dehumidifier but some savings along with some cool air to help the AC out a bit. Have the temp adjusted up to 120 now,lower temps dont work with the slow recovery time in heat pump mode.

 

[cableman]

Condensate is about a gallon a day, not enough to allow me to eliminate the dehumidifier but some savings along with some cool air to help the AC out a bit. Have the temp adjusted up to 120 now,lower temps dont work with the slow recovery time in heat pump mode.

Any problems with 6 people and the 50 gal yet?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I dont expect problems as i am replacing a 30 gallon electric which worked fine with 6 people. But the slow recovery of the HPWH is a factor,so i started out at 110 Degree setting but i ran out of hot water after a few back to back showers so went to 115 and while better still ran out with multiple users drawing , now im at 120 so ill be adding a lot of cold to a shower and so it will extend my capacity to probably 60 to 70 gallons. 120 is the recommended setting anyway. Ill probably never(or almost never ) use the hybrid or all electric function of this heater. It is nice to have in case we get company but that is only rarely ,perhaps once a year when there is 10 people here.

 

[cableman]

I dont really have people stay maybe 1 extra sometimes. I went 80gal figuring kids and wife can take a bath and if anyone else had to shower hot water would still be there. Im still being cheap and yelling at kids to shower in 5min!
I havnt even turned a/c on yet! Bedroom was 85!

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I dont really have people stay maybe 1 extra sometimes. I went 80gal figuring kids and wife can take a bath and if anyone else had to shower hot water would still be there. Im still being cheap and yelling at kids to shower in 5min!
I havnt even turned a/c on yet! Bedroom was 85!

The 80 cost a lot more, i basically got the 50 for free ,if id chosen the 80 id be out another $600 .

 

[cableman]

The 80 cost a lot more, i basically got the 50 for free ,if id chosen the 80 id be out another $600 .

I hear ya! I was spending no matter how i looked at it cause i didnt have any tank. I figure ill make it up in the long run by prolly using less then a tank of oil a year.

 

[begreen]

Have there been any reports or issues with the condensate pump drain freezing up in winter if it's piped outdoors?

 

[cableman]

Have there been any reports or issues with the condensate pump drain freezing up in winter if it's piped outdoors?

This i will have to keep an eye on, i used pex for the most part and where it exits i came out on a downward angle.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I just noticed that lowes has 2 different models on their website for the 50 Gallon. One is only a 2.4 energy factor while the one i got is a 3.25. Both are listed for $999. THe less efficient one uses about 650 watts while the better one uses about 550 watts in heat pump mode. Im assuming that they upgraded the heater but still have to previous model listed for some reason.

 

[cableman]

Whats the 80gal use? I thought i read 600w max. I did see those 2 online but only one style 80 gallon

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Whats the 80gal use? I thought i read 600w max. I did see those 2 online but only one style 80 gallon

I just ask that question on the site. If its exactly the same as the 50 then they are using the same heat pump on a bigger tank. Doesnt really justify a $600 price jump for the 80.

 

[cableman]

They should have made a 60 gallon!

 

[Seasoned Oak]

They should have made a 60 gallon!

The 50 is like a turbocharged WH anyway, You can select heavy demand and get super fast recovery using both heating methods,the 4500 watt resistance elements plus the heat pump at the same time. Should recover faster than a regular WH putting it in line with a larger WH. If iv been happy with a 30 all these years im sure this 50 is even overkill.

 

[cableman]

The 50 is like a turbocharged WH anyway, You can select heavy demand and get super fast recovery using both heating methods,the 4500 watt resistance elements plus the heat pump at the same time. Should recover faster than a regular WH putting it in line with a larger WH. If iv been happy with a 30 all these years im sure this 50 is even overkill.

I hope to never have to run mine in anything but hp mode, im too cheap and wouldnt wanna see my electric jump! I prolly should have done the 50, 80 is alot of hot water. Im happy so far but still need to make it through a winter with it.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Cable man ,what is your temp setting?
I Just did a load of laundry and took a shower and it wasnt even enough drawdown to for it to kick on. I was surprised. Seems like the 120 setting is plenty. GE says it still save 50% at 50 degrees room temp.
Its 67% at 68 room temp. Probably better when i start my wood stove and that general area goes to 90 deg.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I havnt even turned a/c on yet! Bedroom was 85!

Ive got mine going 24/7 cant stand a hot house. Whole house is 70 to 75 with just 2, 5000 BTU bedroom ACs going.

 

[Ashful]

Probably better when i start my wood stove and that general area goes to 90 deg.

cant stand a hot house.

 

[Brian26]

I just noticed that lowes has 2 different models on their website for the 50 Gallon. One is only a 2.4 energy factor while the one i got is a 3.25. Both are listed for $999. THe less efficient one uses about 650 watts while the better one uses about 550 watts in heat pump mode. Im assuming that they upgraded the heater but still have to previous mo
del listed for some reason.

GEH50DEEDSR is the 2nd generation model. GEH50DFEJSR is the latest generation. They probably still have some of the 2nd gen's in inventory.

I looked into upgrading to the newer generation as my 2nd gen is over 3 years old and I basically got it for free through rebates. I was going to sell mine cheap to a friend or family member then go buy the newest one for $599 at lowes.

I researched the differences and the best I could find was.

Better energy factor of 3.25 compared to 2.5.
Heat pump temperature cutoff is lower on the newer one. I believe its 35 degrees and the 2nd gen was 45.
The controller has the GE connect software where you can control it with ge's phone app.
I am guessing better insulation.
Might be other stuff such as a more efficient compressor but thats all I found so far.

One important thing to remember with the listed efficiency ratings are they are based on Dept of Energy savings. I believe it is ran in hybrid mode using the elements and heat pump with a water temp of 135. I found running mine in heat pump only mode at 120 degrees blows away the listed energy ratings They list it as using 1351 KWH a year. Based using my effergy energy monitor on mine I probably use half that in a year.