My Geospring

[maple1]

Seasoned oak, you gonna go for tge 50 or 80 gal?
My basement so far has only dropped 2* but it rises right back up.
Kids are the energy hogs! My wife and i can both shower and it doesnt come on, just one kid can shower and it comes on. Its gotta be that their smaller, further from the water so they turn the hot up more and they just spin in circles for the first 8min!

Kids are weird. They go from can't get them in the shower, to can't get them out of it.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Seasoned oak, you gonna go for tge 50 or 80 gal?
Kids are the energy hogs! My wife and i can both shower and it doesnt come on, just one kid can shower and it comes on. Its gotta be that their smaller, further from the water so they turn the hot up more and they just spin in circles for the first 8min!

Im getting the 50 gallon simply because i use a 30 now with no problems. Plus the cost of the 50 zeros out for me at $999 ,the 80 is $1600. Teenagers are even worse than small kids in the shower. Thats why i dont oversize my WH , nothing like cold water to get them moving out! Me and the wife we never run out.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Just finished the 4th year having my geospring. I have had nothing go wrong with mine. We have 2 adults and 3 teenagers on the 50 gal, I run mine at 140* in the summer with a mixing valve set at 125. I do this for more dehumidification, plus allows the tank to be bigger. I almost always run on hp only, only time I needed hybrid was spring and fall when there was 5 showers in a row. If I was to do it again, I would get the 80 gal set up the same way. not that its needed, but for the extra if needed.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Iv noticed the 80 is less efficient for some reason,probably more standby loss,and cost a lot more than the 50. Not at all cost effective unless you really need that much hot water all at once. Almost 100 gallons first hour. Probably the same size compressor, just a bigger tank.

 

[cableman]

80gal sure is big, prolly should have done the 50!
Stihly dan that 140* is in hp only mode? I thought is maxed out at 125* in hp only mode.

 

[Ashful]

Iv noticed the 80 is less efficient for some reason,probably more standby loss,and cost a lot more than the 50. Not at all cost effective unless you really need that much hot water all at once. Almost 100 gallons first hour. Probably the same size compressor, just a bigger tank.

First hour? All reports on this forum indicate these things take 4 - 6 hours to recover.

I have two water heaters, oil-fired in basement, and electric on third floor. It's nice having infinite hot water, and not worrying about either failing, since you'll always have the other.

 

[cableman]

First hour? All reports on this forum indicate these things take 4 - 6 hours to recover.

I have two water heaters, oil-fired in basement, and electric on third floor. It's nice having infinite hot water, and not worrying about either failing, since you'll always have the other.

96 gallons 1st hour before you would run out and have to wait for it to recover. Yes its still gonna run for how ever long to get back up to temp

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I dont see a problem here with the recovery mode. You can always select standard element heat mode when periods of high use are expected,such as extra people staying over, lots of showers back to back. The big savings will come from the countless small draws, sure the standard elements recover faster and also use 9 times more power to do it.
Ill be picking up a 50 gal Geospring today from lowes.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Im curious how much the Geospring will cool the room its in. heard estimates on this forum from 2 to 10 degrees. ill find out today when i install it. Probably more on 1st day than any other. Pretty simple female pex adapter on top the already installed 3/4 pipe nipples. Good move by GE, Its a lot less likely to crossthread a female adapter onto a nipple than trying to get a male adapter down into a builtin female fitting like most WH have. Even if you do youve only ruined the adapter not the whole water heater. Should take 10 minutes once it in place.

 

[cableman]

My buddy used copper with no unions! I hope i dont have a problem with corrosion cause of differant metals. Maybe ge uses nipples that wont cause it? My bud also was pretty good keeping the last solder joint up high and cooling with wet rag and turning cold water right on. Pex prolly would have been easier.

So far 2* max drop in my basement, i suspect it will drop more in winter.

 

[Ashful]

No expert here, but I've always made my water heater connections with a bronze couplings between the WH and copper plumbing.

Unions? Just a source for leaks. I can cut off the old copper and sweat on a new coupling, faster than most can get a union to seal.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Rebate form is asking for the contractors name address and phone number, but it does not say thats a requirement for WH thats self installed. Wondering if i should leave that blank. Ill put the name of my business even though its a real estate business, not a plumbing company.

 

[cableman]

Whats the rebate your getting? That from your power company?

Ge shows all copper on their site too, it is only a picture though. Hopfully ill be ok.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Whats the rebate your getting? That from your power company?

Ge shows all copper on their site too, it is only a picture though. Hopfully ill be ok.

View attachment 181989

$400 from my power co. $300 from federal tax credit ,and i happen to need my old WH in a rental so thats saving me $350. So it about Zeros out with purchase price of $999 from Lowes $1060 With tax.
So whatever i save on power is money in the bank from day 1. A thousand dollar water heater That pays for itself up front then again every 2 to 3 years.

 

[Ashful]

This thread spurred me to go back and look at some of our previous conversations about HPWH's, and how I might be able to take advantage of one.

My current system:

1. Basement boiler room: Amtrol Boilermate tank system installed on oil-fired boiler. Also running TWO dehumidifiers in this large (2000+ sq.ft.) basement. Boiler room is not insulated, and is VERY warm in winter, keeping our kitchen floor above nice a toasty.

2. Third floor attic: Traditional electric 40 gallon. Used only for third-floor bathroom, which is seldom used right now, but will probably see regular usage once our kids get a little older. I'm running a third dehumidifier in this attic space, to eliminate condensation from exterior of our air conditioning air handler contained in this space, as this was covered in mold when we moved in.

Primary issue with Boilermate basement install is that all add-on units require the installation of a 1/2" dip tube in the 3/4" inlet of the tank. This is an enormous constraint on flow rate of a tank that is supplying 13 sinks + 3 showers + 2 washers + 2 dishwashers, any combination of which may be running simultaneously. Also, I suspect the dehumidifcation will not work so well, as this basement is broken into five or six rooms, and the HPWH will not have great airflow to the largest (and leakiest walk-out) portion of the basement.

Primary issue with third-floor installation is low usage, and the fact that this is a very cold un-conditioned space all winter.

What can a HPWH do for me? Only options I see are both for the basement install:

1. Install an add-on system to Boilermate, ignore dip-tube suggestions, and set up as a molded tank EHWH.
2. Install a HPWH with another 50 or 80 gallon tank (complete waste of space), and use it to supply the Boilermate. This would allow me to supply the boiler with warm (eg.130F) water, keep the HPWH in it's most efficient operating mode, and do final heating and holding with oil (lower cost).

Thoughts?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

This will help with humidity but you probably would need to keep at least 1 dehumidifier going. probably get only a gallon a day from this unit.
In 2 hours of running my humidity is dropping steadily from 78 to 74 Temp near the unit dropped from 74 to 70 Exhaust is about 58- 60 degrees. So far im loving the cool air coming from it ,can also get adapters to duct the intake as well as the exaust air. When my wood stove is going this general area is 90 degrees so wont be hard to get hot water from that.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

It seems this unit could recover even faster than a regular 50 Gal unit in hybrid mode if im not mistaken it uses both the 4500 watt heating element and the heat pump simultaneously. It also has a high demand mode and an electric only mode, I doing my initial warmup in heatpump only so as to get maximum area air cooling and humidification and lowest KW use. 3 birds with one stone.

 

[woodgeek]

Thoughts?

The financials are entirely predicated on shutting down the oil boiler and indirect in the summer. If parasitic losses overheat the space in the winter, then the heat stealing by the HPWH would steal from energy currently wasted (out the sides of the basement and into the earth). Shutting down the boiler in the summer would also save a bundle on AC costs. What the dehumidification savings would be is hard to estimate....depends on your current moisture load and your HW usage.

You **could** keep the boiler-mate in place, and either use it in the winter, or fire it up when you have a bunch of house guests, or keep it as a backup, whatever. But, the idea of feeding the boilermate with the HPWH would not lead to significant savings IMO.

If you want, you should try to audit how much oil you use in the summer, when you are away (so no HW used) or when you are home (difference is your HW BTU usage). I put a 120VAC 'hour meter' across the blower leads on my boiler, to log run hours per day, and multiplied by nozzle GPH. Read it once a day for a month. My standby was 1.2 gallons per day. When we were home our HW usage put it up to 1.4 or 1.5 gallons...i.e. 80% of our oil was wasted, just making heat to keep the AC busy.

looked like this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0027NLO8K/?tag=hearthamazon-20

 

[cableman]

I ran it in hybrid after the initial fill, meter hardly moved compaired to the electric dryer! Its now in hp only mode.
Let us know how that 50 gal does seasoned oak, im thinking it would work for most.

 

[Fanatical1]

Just spent 45 minutes reading the entire thread here! Lots of really good info.


I thought I would share my experience with the Geospring.

I have the 2nd generation, red top, purchased at Lowes with all the discounts cost me $470.00 with tax. I installed it myself two years ago in my laundry room which is off the main living area. I leave the door open on the laundry room so it has plenty of air movement.

After two years of use, we have had zero issues and cut our energy use in half for heating water. Almost always have it in HP mode with an exception once in a while.

I would buy one again in a heartbeat.

 

[maple1]

If you want, you should try to audit how much oil you use in the summer, when you are away (so no HW used) or when you are home (difference is your HW BTU usage). I put a 120VAC 'hour meter' across the blower leads on my boiler, to log run hours per day, and multiplied by nozzle GPH. Read it once a day for a month. My standby was 1.2 gallons per day. When we were home our HW usage put it up to 1.4 or 1.5 gallons...i.e. 80% of our oil was wasted, just making heat to keep the AC busy.

Holy wow - that's some serious wasted oil.

I've been saying all along that we used 3/4 gallon of oil per day with our old tankless coil unit. But on second thought - I've been talking Imperial gallonage. So I guess more like in the area of 1US gallon per day. That was with the boiler turned down to 'just adequate'. And seemed to be whether we were using DHW or not.

 

[Ashful]

I've been tracking my usage for five years, and we use 1.0 gallons (US) oil per day, for heating water. In that five years, this house has only been left empty once for a week, so no way to check standby vs usage.


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[Seasoned Oak]

I've been tracking my usage for five years, and we use 1.0 gallons (US) oil per day, for heating water. In that five years, this house has only been left empty once for a week, so no way to check standby vs usage.


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A gallon a day is at least $60 a month and rising. HPWH is rated at about $13 a month depending on KWH rate. Mine is less cuz i pay 10c KWH not 12 which is the basis.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I ran it in hybrid after the initial fill, meter hardly moved compaired to the electric dryer! Its now in hp only mode.
Let us know how that 50 gal does seasoned oak, im thinking it would work for most.

I changed it to Heat pump only right from the start. Initial heat up took about 4 hours. Dropped humidity briefly about 4 points and room temp about 2 degrees. After that it just runs occasionally. I tried 110 for the first day which is hot enough for a shower but probably too cold for the washer and dishwasher,so i bumped it up to 115 today. Its hard to believe you can get a 50 gallons of hot water out of 2 degrees of room temperature.

 

[woodgeek]

I've been tracking my usage for five years, and we use 1.0 gallons (US) oil per day, for heating water. In that five years, this house has only been left empty once for a week, so no way to check standby vs usage.
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I assume you mean you use 1.0 gallons of oil per day, on average, when you are using zero space heat. ?

The standby on most boilers is close to 1.0 gal/day. With an indirect even more so.

If you were actually using 110,000 BTUs/day of heat for DHW, you would be a very large user. IT is possible you are a normal DHW user and most of that 1.0 g/day is parasitic loss....and it is losing this (hypothetical) loss that drives the financials for a HPWH.

Of course, if the HW was diluted at the tap to 110°F, and your CW input was 50°F, 1 g/day oil is enough energy to heat 1800 lbs or 220 gallons of HW/day. This seems unlikely to me for 2 people with a small child.