Moving - need advice on wood vs propane

[mellow]

I would get rid of that propane heater based on looks alone, yuck!

Everything else has been covered.

 

[bag of hammers]

we've been burning wood for the past three years and very content with the process

Picture you and family huddled around the propane unit on a nasty night in early Feb, regretting what used to be (sorry, just another little push towards the PE).

 

[flhpi]

Don't kid yourself. Stay with the wood stove.

 

[jeanine]

Propane in Long Island is just as expensive as oil !! yikes, so just purchased a pellet stove, and 2 pallets of pellets. I think the wood is a great choice, enjoy

 

[Manitoulin Maples]

I would get rid of that propane heater based on looks alone, yuck!

Everything else has been covered.

I know! It's super ugly!

 

[Manitoulin Maples]

Picture you and family huddled around the propane unit on a nasty night in early Feb, regretting what used to be (sorry, just another little push towards the PE).

Thats pretty funny!

 

[Manitoulin Maples]

MM - be careful - my bill (approx 60 km north of SSM) for electric is mostly taxes, delivery charges, etc. Actual power use one year was @ $11 or $12 and the bill was over $300. Not kidding. Last year, between $500 and $600 useage, total bill over $1500. 2/3 of my bill is fluff. That is seasonal rates (not my permanent residence) - if this is your permanent residence on the island you might not get stung so bad, but you will likely pay a LOT more than the posted per kWh rate when the bill comes in. Check with some of your neighbors, if they don't mind showing you their bills. That's the best way to get an idea.

FWIW I will get a year out of a 250 gal propane tank running only a Rinnai direct vent furnace (82 % efficiency) as my no-freeze during the winter, the wood stove runs when we're there on weekends. They dump 1000 litres in and I pay @ $700 (slight discount last year).

My 2c - you got firewood cut and stacked already? Already a burner? Lots of land with lots of trees? Existing hearth? Man, rip that propane unit out, get the PE in there, and be happy happy happy. Use the electric for no-freeze when you gotta be away. Maybe consider other propane appliances if you feel the urge later on, be content that you have the lines, etc to get set up again should you decide to go that route. Congrats on the new home and the soon-to-be new baby, awesome.....

Yes it will be my permanent residence so it won't be as bad. But I know my delivery rates where I'm renting now and I hear ya...there's lots of fluff.

 

[1750]

Maybe I didn't read closely enough, but I didn't see that you had a back-up to the propane. If you have that system pulled, how are you going to keep the place from freezing when you are away? I have a stove that I love, and it's all we use when home, but we have a propane back-up that keeps the place above freezing while we are away. If I had to do it again, I might go electric
for the back-up (or, when I'm really rolling in it, closed-loop geothermal!), because I really hate that tank.

Also, even if you decided to keep the propane, I'd really be surprised if you needed a 1000 g tank to heat a house that size. If you are considering staying with propane, you might call around and see if your local propane dealers have a "new customer first fill" rate. I did that last year when I put in a propane system, and it cut the ppg in about half. You could get a smaller tank and maybe a deal on the first fill. Where I live (Michigan) the dealers don't charge a tank rental fee. But, if your sig is accurate and you live on Manitoulin Island (which is absolutely gorgeous), you might have fewer options at your disposal.

Regardless, were I in your shoes, I'd be looking at, at least eventually, using wood as my primary source, and having something else as a back-up when you are taking the new grand-baby to the in-laws. Unless you are moving 100's of miles, I also can't imagine leaving all that seasoned wood!

Best of luck to you. These are exciting times!

 

[teutonicking]

Hey guys...I've been absent for a long time...what can I say...life happens!

So my wife and I just bought a 1430 sq.ft. house (one floor - open concept) that has electric heat but also was designed for a woodstove with a nice central brick hearth and masonry chimney. At some point this was converted to propane with a radiant style space heater. I think its a Cozy model, about 40,000b btu's. I've been trying to decide whether to keep the propane or install my woodstove. I'll try and lay out the details, because some of these details are important to note, and then hopefully some of you will have suggestions:

- I can buy the 2002 model PE Super 27 I've been using from our landlord for a whopping good deal - I used it for the last three years and it's amazing, mint shape and rated at 72,000 btu's
- I'd have to get a stainless steel liner installed in the chimney as the aluminum liner for the propane space heater won't suffice
- I have the option right now to get the 1000 gallon propane tank removed from the property by the current owners and therefore don't have to pay for the fuel as part of the house deal - it's about 1/3 full and we've calculated the cost to buy the existing fuel and actually it's close to the same cost as buying the used woodstove and getting a new liner installed
- all the propane lines and regulators would stay in the house and the space heater too, just the rental tank and fuel gets removed so the current owners get credit and close their account. I could always get a new rental tank down the road if we wanted to hook up the space heater somewhere else, like the crawlspace for example. or looking long term we could even do a propane furnace install in the crawlspace as it has about 5 feet of headroom...propane tankless hot water heater, kitchen stove, etc.,
- I have 10 face cords of seasoned wood ready for this winter, and a woodshed that I could disassemble and also take, these are bonuses but also significantly add to the hassle of moving
- the hearth base in the new house would need to be extended or have something put down in front of it to get the 18 inches needed in front of the Super 27 door - I'm about 5inches shy. this is not a huge deal in the long run as we want to replace the carpet with laminate wood and remove the floor hearth bricks to make a more clean and modern look. a simple tile hearth pad could be installed then but for the short term I'd have to screw cement board down in front of the semi circle brick or rip out some carpet and install some tiles right away.

So basically it comes down to cash flow right now, which we are tight on. The propane is turn key, clean and reliable. We walk in and it works, and offsets the cost of electric which is the whole point of this. However, the current owners don't know how it works in winter b/c they go to Florida. So, we have no idea how efficient it is or how much fuel it uses. Will I have to phone the supply company mid winter b/c the space heater is a hog on fuel??? On the other hand, the wood and wood shed are a pain to move, it's messy and will take some time to get everything installed to be up and running. But when it's done I know I have a reliable heat source and already know what the stove is capable of. I also have a saw, lots of wood gear and access to land to harvest from so still seems like the cheapest option of all, but the most work or course...especially now. People I've asked who don't burn wood think i'm nuts to consider moving my wood and the shed....you fellow wood burners will understand my dilemma more!

Questions welcome, comments appreciated. Keep in mind we are on a budget right now and every buck counts in the short term. We're expecting a baby later this fall too so that comes in to the equation as well. Here's a pic of the current set up with the propane space heater.

Answers: Wood stove. Keep your wood and take it with you, AND, buy five more full cords NOW so you will be ready with dry wood next year as well.

 

[bag of hammers]

Maybe I didn't read closely enough, but I didn't see that you had a back-up to the propane. If you have that system pulled, how are you going to keep the place from freezing when you are away? I have a stove that I love, and it's all we use when home, but we have a propane back-up that keeps the place above freezing while we are away. If I had to do it again, I might go electric
for the back-up (or, when I'm really rolling in it, closed-loop geothermal!), because I really hate that tank.

Also, even if you decided to keep the propane, I'd really be surprised if you needed a 1000 g tank to heat a house that size. If you are considering staying with propane, you might call around and see if your local propane dealers have a "new customer first fill" rate. I did that last year when I put in a propane system, and it cut the ppg in about half. You could get a smaller tank and maybe a deal on the first fill. Where I live (Michigan) the dealers don't charge a tank rental fee. But, if your sig is accurate and you live on Manitoulin Island (which is absolutely gorgeous), you might have fewer options at your disposal.

Regardless, were I in your shoes, I'd be looking at, at least eventually, using wood as my primary source, and having something else as a back-up when you are taking the new grand-baby to the in-laws. Unless you are moving 100's of miles, I also can't imagine leaving all that seasoned wood!

Best of luck to you. These are exciting times!

You need a no-freeze for sure - I believe MM mentioned that there is electric there now (..?)

A smaller tank in my scenario is more than enough, and the supplier I have charges a small annual tank rental fee.

Also agree - Manitoulin Island is one of the prettiest places on earth. I think this family will be very happy there.

 

[Manitoulin Maples]

You need a no-freeze for sure - I believe MM mentioned that there is electric there now (..?)

A smaller tank in my scenario is more than enough, and the supplier I have charges a small annual tank rental fee.

Also agree - Manitoulin Island is one of the prettiest places on earth. I think this family will be very happy there.

Yes full electric in the house and works fine. Heaters in crawlspace too. All good on that front and provides a very usable, albeit expensive, back up option. And Manitoulin is awesome - thanks!

 

[bag of hammers]

It's really nice that you have some options right out of the gate. Don't forget, when you're away (for any extended period of time) you just need a reasonable no-freeze setting on the t-stat. I keep my place on the lowest setting possible on the propane unit, and it's @ 45 deg F when I show up, mid winter. That's with very good insulation, decent glass, and some solar gain (lots of south windows on the main room). I takes a day to get everything "warm" in the depth of winter (the room warms up fast, but you know how walls / furniture / etc need some time to soak up the heat). You may like a bit more heat on when you're away, but either way, I wouldn't spend any time worrying about a couple $ saved or lost on propane vs electric.

 

[1750]

Yes full electric in the house and works fine. Heaters in crawlspace too. All good on that front and provides a very usable, albeit expensive, back up option. And Manitoulin is awesome - thanks!

Then I would say GO WOOD, all the way!

 

[TK-421]

I think the pic says enough. I just installed my carrabasset and am doing the burn in procedure now. 200 degrees. Two more burns and we're good to go.

 

[1750]

That's goooood looking!

Congratulations good burning to you.

 

[rideau]

OK double checked electric prices per kWh and we have time of use hydro - on peak, mid peak, and off peak. On peak is 12.4 cents per kWh, mid is 10.4 cent per kWh, and off peak is 6.7 cents per kWh hour. These are CDN prices of course. I don't really know how to calculate that into what electric heat would cost....

Hay, hey, hey, those are not the real prices. That is my posted rate too...that does not include Hydro's 1.1x multiplier for power lost in delivery, does not include debt reduction charges to the previous Ontario Hydro, does not include delivery charges, or 13 % Harmonized sales tax. You are looking closer toxthe posted rate per KWH than the posted rates. Just a heads up. It's cheaper to get the most expensive stove made than to heat with electric in Ontario, IMO>

Posted the above before I read the entire thread. Glad you are not counting on electric. Rates are scheduled to continue to go up.

Install looks very nice. Hope you all have a nice warm winter.

 

[alforit]

I think the pic says enough. I just installed my carrabasset and am doing the burn in procedure now. 200 degrees. Two more burns and we're good to go.

Simple , Classic , Beautiful !

 

[akbear]

Here, I'll make (I assume most) everyone feel better. Our full bore electric rate currently is .4971 kWh (we're not on the intertie so it's locally oil generated) but there is a power cost equalisation for places that off the main systems as long as they meet an efficiency standard that currently (it's variable, just like the energy charge that's part of the full rate) lowers the residential rate to .1765 for the first 500 kWh (it's based on averaging the price of electric in Fairbanks, Anchorage and Juneau). People around here think I'm nuts that I have an electric stove, but the reality is, how long is it actually on and best I can figure, as long as I'm under the 500 kWh limit, I actually don't see how propane would be cheaper in my area (plus I'm not cooking over a 1/4 inch flame in the depths of winter). Of course as winter comes on it should be a moot point as the cookstove will likely be taking over that job.

 

[bag of hammers]

Our full bore electric rate currently is .4971 kWh

Wow - akbear, it'd almost be cheaper to load your woodstove with $1 bills....