Masonry Heaters

[Marty]

It seems to me the real big advantage of masonry heaters is in the reduced pollution and more importantly, fuel consumption. Although the eaiser tending characteristics are highly desireable to be sure.

It is a wonderful thing that wood/corn/pellett burners use local sustainable energy sources that do not fiddle with the atmosphere's natural cycles, but if the percentage of them were to increase to any appreciable degree we would be faced with polution and fuel scarcity problems that far exceed those that origionally led to the masonry heaters development.

Easier tending? Many people consider starting fires a pain... Isn't having to start 2 fires every day and gather kindling, paper, etc... to start things a bit of a pain vs just tossing splits into a running fire every so often?

Maybe in the earliest stage of the fire but...
you don't have to regulate fuel and air to produce even heat... just charge up the battery and let it release... also cuting splitting stacking and halling six logs instead of ten means less work directly associated with 'tending'.

 

[MrWinkey]

My house was designed to have one when it was built but my folks couldnt afford the 20k aprox cost for it to be put in at the time. I have kickouts in my livingroom floor and the foundation for it already poured in my crawl space.

It's not really inconvient at all if you look at it. 1 small hot fire to warm the house in the morning. 1 small hot fire to warm it in the eve.

The other idea is that it acts as a sun heatsink. My wife and I recently purchased the house and we were looking at putting it in since we are doing some re-working of the house. It is a great idea and would be an awsome point to our family room but I just flat out dont have the cash to spend. We ended up putting in a pellet stove w/ a huge battery backup. Maybe in another few years I can afford it but the 4k for the pellet setup vs the 20k I couldnt justify it.

From other houses I've seen with them it's a fantastic Idea.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Payback is clear. Look earlier in this very thread where Marty breaks down cost vs. payback. My only concern with putting one in would be considering how long you intend to live in the home. I'm not sure the added value of the masonry heater to the home could offset the cost of construction if the home were to be sold before the annual savings were accrued.

So, if you plan on only livng in a home for 5 years, and you spend 20K putting a masonry heater in, could the construction be covered by the increase in the value of the home? Could you reach your savings to offset the construction cost in 5 years? Or a combination of the two perhaps.

If however, you are in the retirement stage of your life, and plan to always have the house, or you've built a home for generations of your family to enjoy, then the cost could easily be justified. Certainly the cost would have to fit inside your overall budget. Another cost perhaps not so patent would be the expense in buying new stoves, the time spent shopping for them, and the associated installation costs. With a masonry heater you build it once, and you forget about it forever.

-Kevin

 

[Martin Strand III]

Dylan:
About a monolith increasing property taxes: I don't think so. It's site built under the general building code, as is a regualr fireplace, and classified same as a fireplace. My money says it's taxed same as a fireplace.

I think a red flag goes up when the building inspector sees a metal wood burner going in. It falls under the "mechanical" code, not general building code, has a suspect history with insurance companies since many were implicated in burning homes down in the past and may be taxed more as an "extra".

And to somebody else (Warren?) about hard to start 2X/day:
No way. I have dry wood (read real dry wood). With the "Inside Out Firestarting" method (posted earlier within a couple weeks) just stack it, add a little kindling, a sawdust/wax homemade starter, a match and it's done.

Just my thoughts.

Aye,
Marty

 

[kevinmoelk]

Kevin,

I think your statement regarding payment being clear is EXTREMELY broad....Do you usually generalize to THAT degree after but ONE example?? I certainly DON'T. One important, IMO, cost that Marty excluded was PROPERTY TAX....I don't mean sales tax...I mean the YEARLY stipend you give to your municipality for the privilege of owning REAL property. In Connecticut, if the assessor is doing his/her job properly, you'll pay upwards of $600 just to own an improvement to your domicile such as a swimming pool or masonry stove. By my calculations, that's three cords of wood.

As to the cost of time and money spent SHOPPING for new stoves?? Are you SERIOUS?? About TIME?? Sheeessh, how much time do we all spend RIGHT HERE?? And how often do you plan on buying a new stove?? Further, if I was gonna drop twenty-five large on a masonry heater, I know that I'd spend a helluva LOT more time on 'shopping around' for designs before I'd make THAT decision.

Dylan,

My experience with home improvements range far beyond masonry stoves. Though we are discussing that in particular here, my words are general enough to apply to any remodeling project. I've known people to spend 50K on a kitchen remodel, then change jobs, move to a different state, and NEVER see any return on investment. Those folks lost money on the remodel. There are many, many examples I can provide you if you wish. Shouldn't the expenditure of 20-30K be evaluated beyond just being able to afford the improvement? I think you agree in your very last sentence. So, what is the point you are attempting to make Sir?

Time spent? Sure, why not. I consider my time valuable. Time here? Well, this is for fun. Entertainment is important in life.

As far as spending money on new stoves? Why not? There are some people who are going to want a new stove before the old one is paid for, and will sell the stove below market value. So yes, I'm sure there are people loosing money by purchasing a new stove every few years. Or maybe they decide to get rid of the stove all together before receiving a ROI.

-Kevin

 

[kevinmoelk]

Kevin,

Your reasoning here makes no sense....no sense at all. It's simply a statement of your predujices. There's NO point in even discussing where you ere, other than to indicate that you're 'looking down your nose', regarding those people who are getting no return on their kitchen investments. You CAN'T really know.

I won't click on "Ignore", but this CERTAINLY provides context with which to view future posts of yours.

Dylan,

Okay. Seems to me like you are one who enjoys stirring the pot and creating drama around yourself. That's fine, but I'm not playing. To make the above statement about someone you do not know is not very kind Sir. I'm certainly not looking down on anyone, lol. If you find my posts have little to no value, so be it. I was only attempting to answer your questions. For the record the person I know who spent 50K on a kitchen remodel is my brother, so yes I DO know that he lost money on the deal.

-Kevin

 

[Marty]

Here is one of my favorite masonry heater links (Russian):
http://www.stove.ru/index.php?lng=1&rs=3

This guy is a poet...:

"Our works – is a new trend in development of stove heating.

If somebody needs to come from point A to point B, this distance can be covered differently. It is much better to use a direct line. It’s natural. If there is a big mountain on our way it is better to use another way instead of climbing the mountain. When new grass grows through the newly laid asphalt it is but natural. We are all equal in the face of God but our lives turn to be different, this is also natural. There is one life given to us, and it is but natural that everybody strives to live it in the best possible way. We are all equal before the law, and the law shall provide equal rights and possibilities to everybody, ensuring priority of a person and society before the state. This is also natural. The state shall fulfill only the social functions that nobody fulfills, nothing else. For that purpose only it was created. It shall provide the conditions for fruitful labor and for welfare of people in accordance with their capabilities, the system shall be self-adjustable. This is also natural. If one needs to perform some kind of work the best way is to use natural possibilities of nature: wind strength, the sun energy, the energy of falling water, etc., it is but natural. In all these cases one common tendency is observed - all the events ( process) are optimal when they are natural and done on purpose. and also when they correspond to the laws of nature and the Universe. Observation of this law leads to optimum results, whereas failure to observe the law leads to chaos, cataclysms and tragedies. This is proved by the whole historic development of mankind.

Let’s have a look how this tendency is observed in stoves, which are designed on the principle of “ free (natural) gas movement”. The hot gases movement in the hood stove (hood) is done not under the influence of pipe draw but under the influence of gravitation force of gases themselves. The hottest gases being the easiest go up, the cold ones being the heaviest are accumulated in the lower part of the hood. The gases having an intermediate temperature are circulating in between. That means that inside the hood a turbulent gas movement takes place, that contributes to a better heat accumulation by the hood walls. Inside the hood with the temperature increase an excessive (higher) pressure is created that also contributes to a better heat accumulation by the hood walls. Heat transfer takes place due to convection (it is the same as air movement in the room), the heat energy is carried over by the gas flow itself. When we use electricity for heating no pipe draw is necessary. When we use wood for heating the worked out, cold combustion products are taken away by means of pipe draw. In this case under the hood floor there is a certain volume (a sack) of hot gases that is an ideal chamber for burning out of gaseous content of wood.

Let’s view the following case. If we feel a rubber glove with fingers pointed up with air (let’s call it a convective stove system), it will fill up its volume completely. The gases always fill up the whole volume (in comparison with water that can fill a part of volume). If we heat the air in the glove from the bottom a convective air movement takes place inside it, in each place, in each finger. A process of heat transfer due to convection takes place, whereas the heating will be equal in each horizontal cross section. Hence the hood can have any form both in cross section and in height. In each vertical cross section (volume) of the hood a convective gas movement takes place and heat transfer due to natural nature forces. A simple and a clear process of heat transfer inside the stove takes place. This cannot be reached in other convective systems including those ones that operate under the principle of “ counter flow”. Try to organize a forced gas movement in a stove that has a form of a glove (fingers up) due to pipe draw having an equal heating along its horizontal cross section with a minimum resistance to gas movement. The hood stove can hardly be spoilt. The convective system of such stove is natural and self -adjustable. It provides numerous possibilities for creation of stoves with new functions. "

 

[Burn-1]

While looking at some stuff for possible designs for a retrofit masonry heater I found this link
to someone who designed and built his own masonry stove.

(broken link removed)

Probably not the ideal thing for most of us to do but it's got some very interesting information.