Man am I startin to like the KING!

[webby3650]

I'll jump on the bandwagon too here, I've been getting 14-18 hour burns on loose stuffed loads of cottonwood in my chinook with the tstat around 1-1.5 depending on how cold it is. Keeps it a toasty 72-74 inside.
Can definitely get 30+ hours from it, but I don't like spending 15 minutes playing tetris while my hands are being burned off just to avoid a reload every now and then. I load it up with about 25-30lbs of wood. Using all the uglies and too long/short pieces I have first while it's not super cold yet. Haven't hit the hardwood stacks yet.

Stove top sits at about 200 with fans on lowest... can't even tell the stove is burning when you look at the chimney outside... and the firebox is all dark.

The chinook is pretty sweet huh? It's pretty cool to come home and see zero activity from the flue, but have a smoking hot fire going on inside! A fire with no flames of course. :coolhmm:

 

[HeatsTwice]

What's never mentioned by the BK owners commenting so far is:

1) How large their house is (with the exception of 1), no one has. Or what kind of house; split level, ranch, two story. I mean sure, a 1200 foot ranch should stay very warm in sub zero conditions. But ones 3200 sq ft mansion may not.
2) What is the delta temperature between outside and inside air is durring these burns.
3) Will dirty sooty pine clog the cat.
4) How selective are they in the species of wood they burn. Or do they burn anything they scrounge.
5) How long each has actually owned the stove.
6) How much maintenance is required (per year) to keep it operating at the levels new owners exclaim they are getting. And does the maintenance curve asymptotically approach infinity the more years you own one.

Based on what I am reading, the BK will probably be my next stove. But here in California, you cant find them anywhere on show case rooms so I have never seen one in real life. All I can go on is what is indicated on this site. And so far it seems too good to be true without the above questions being answered.

 

[rdust]

What's never mentioned by the BK owners commenting so far is:

1) How large their house is (with the exception of 1), no one has. Or what kind of house; split level, ranch, two story. I mean sure, a 1200 foot ranch should stay very warm in sub zero conditions. But ones 3200 sq ft mansion may not.
2) What is the delta temperature between outside and inside air is durring these burns.
3) Will dirty sooty pine clog the cat.
4) How selective are they in the species of wood they burn. Or do they burn anything they scrounge.
5) How long each has actually owned the stove.
6) How much maintenance is required (per year) to keep it operating at the levels new owners exclaim they are getting. And does the maintenance curve asymptotically approach infinity the more years you own one.

Based on what I am reading, the BK will probably be my next stove. But here in California, you cant find them anywhere on show case rooms so I have never seen one in real life. All I can go on is what is indicated on this site. And so far it seems too good to be true without the above questions being answered.

Seasoned cord wood is fine no matter the make.(soft/hard ect) Most of the BK long burn times that are boasted about are low burn times. For my stove I can burn low and maintain low 70* temps when the nights are in the 30's with daytime highs in the 40's. I'm heating just shy of 2K with mine.

I'd suggest doing a search, some of your questions have been asked before. And start a thread to get any of your unanswered questions answered.

Here are a few threads to start you off.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/54691/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42815/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/70373/

And so far it seems too good to be true without the above questions being answered.

I thought the same thing, one of the reasons I had to buy one. I bought mine more for the shoulder season, I know it's going to burn similar to any other 3 cubic foot stove once the cold gets here. We've only had a small stretch of teens for the lows and I was loading every 12 hours, once it gets really cold I may have to fit another partial load in after work. So far it burns way better than my Lopi Endeavor I burned before this.

 

[fdegree]

What's never mentioned by the BK owners commenting so far is:

1) How large their house is (with the exception of 1), no one has. Or what kind of house; split level, ranch, two story. I mean sure, a 1200 foot ranch should stay very warm in sub zero conditions. But ones 3200 sq ft mansion may not.

2300 sq. ft. single story rancher with open floor plan

2) What is the delta temperature between outside and inside air is durring these burns.

typically 72* - 77* inside...25* night time and 45* day time outside

3) Will dirty sooty pine clog the cat.

I only burn hardwood...mostly oak, but others have claimed pine will perform rather well as long as it is below 20% moisture content. Some folks only have access to pine...therefore, burn nothing but pine.

4) How selective are they in the species of wood they burn. Or do they burn anything they scrounge.

Again, I only burn hardwood...mostly oak. Many have said they burn anything as long as it is dry enough and clean enough...meaning no paint, metal or other foreign substances that may reduce the life of the cat.

5) How long each has actually owned the stove.

Mine was installed about a year and half ago

6) How much maintenance is required (per year) to keep it operating at the levels new owners exclaim they are getting. And does the maintenance curve asymptotically approach infinity the more years you own one.

Sweep the chimney and check the tightness of the seals. I did remove my cat this past fall to clean as described in the owners manual...have since found out that is probably not necessary as long as I am burning dry clean wood. Apparently, getting the cat hot enough (glowing orange) will usually clean itself. Sometimes the cat requires a light brushing with a soft brush to remove any fly ash that may have accumulated on it...though I have never had to do this.

 

[Hogwildz]

All I can say is ...
I AM JEALOUS
But you guys got me thinking about my basement

That is 90 pounds of white oak he is talking about. How long will your Summit burn with a couple of 45 pound loads of oak?

Twenty hours, right?

I am burning 2 -12 hr loads lately at about 20's overnight. So that would = 24 hours on 90lbs.
I mix some softer stuff in though, otherwise oak coals take a while to burn down. Not bad now, but in the singles and teens, the coals get to a point of not putting out enough heat.

 

[Hogwildz]

All I can say is ...
I AM JEALOUS
But you guys got me thinking about my basement

That is 90 pounds of white oak he is talking about. How long will your Summit burn with a couple of 45 pound loads of oak?

Twenty hours, right?

What you are referring to is correct imo.
There are only so many btu's in a pound of wood.
Of course how you extract those btu's are key.
With cat stoves there is less draft going on because of lower temps..I would think less heat going up the flue..primary air way down.
If one stove holds twice the wood you only might have to do half as many start ups..start ups use more wood then cruising.

Ok just curious. I been thinking about that. And my theory or questions is. With cooler temps and less draft, does that also mean not as much air intake due to reduced draft and less air equate to less or should say slower burn, less BTU's per hr spread over a longer distance of time? At a lower or slower burn, I can see the King getting the long burn times, as I can get with the Summit(maybe not as long as the King) but again as the temp drops, I see less distance between the King/cat and my Summit. I say my Summit because that is what I know, and do not know the other stoves performance, burn characteristics etc.

All I know is if I slow burned a cat or non cat at say low burn 8k per hour output, it would never heat my house, regardless of the long burn time at that output. The King or my Summit would not heat this place at that rate( on the colder days/nights).
The other part that confuses me, is I assume a cat burns the nasties(maybe better than a secondary type) but once the nasties are burnt, what is the cat doing then? I see it as an opening either way letting exhaust out whether around, across and up like secondary unit, or through a cat. After the volatiles burn off, any of the systems seems like an opening regardless. So how much slower is it truly releasing the heat? Air in is air out, I can't see much difference at that point between a cat and non cat. Both can have the air cut back to a point, and I imagine the lowest setting of air intake has got to be close to the same whether cat or non cat. EPA stoves regardless will only let the air be cut back so far.
I am not being a smart ass, I these are serious questions.
Hogz

 

[Hogwildz]

That is 90 pounds of white oak he is talking about. How long will your Summit burn with a couple of 45 pound loads of oak?

Twenty hours, right?

The Summit is a 3 cubic foot stove,(I think) the BKK is 4.3 so two loads in a Summit would be 6 cubic feet worth of wood. Just sayin' ;-)

The difference is these stoves extract heat in a much more usable way imo. I just got home from the holidays to a 50* house, needless to say I'm burning with a 700* stove top and plenty of flames right now, it's also 18* outside. These stoves will give the heat when you need it but just maintaining a steady temp doesn't require a 700* stove until it gets really cold.

I don't know why you insist it takes Summit to run at 700 to "maintain a temp.
I been burning 12 hr loads (says 45lbs of wood)and the temp only swings about 3 degrees from start to finish. Granted is was in the 30's today, and low 20's at night. Today was windy, that plays a roll some days.
The Summit "usable" sf is not quiet 3ft if I remember correctly. I think BB is closer to target there. If I remember correctly, PE includes the space the baffle rests in and the space above it in that 3sf. They measure from exact total top to bottom, side to side.
Anyways, enjoy your heat, I know I am.

 

[HotCoals]

Hogwildz,
Good questions.

To make it short I truly believe what really makes a great cat stove is more then the cat..size for one ..for wood and holding heat.
The fact that with a large box you load half as much saves wood on initial burns firing things up.
It really helps if the house is sealed well to maintain temps on low burn.
I do believe when it's really cold that they are both going to burn up some wood..less diff then.
It really is mostly the shoulder season where the cat shines..and around here that is half the battle..or more
Also remember the BKK has that t-stat...which can make a huge diff on the length of burn even in colder weather when the stove is unintended.
I'm off to work..later my friend!

 

[HotCoals]

Also..you can't control your secondary air..air in air out like you say.
That to me that is a small problem..but I know why they are like that.

 

[rdust]

I don't know why you insist it takes Summit to run at 700 to "maintain a temp.
I been burning 12 hr loads (says 45lbs of wood)and the temp only swings about 3 degrees from start to finish. Granted is was in the 30's today, and low 20's at night. Today was windy, that plays a roll some days.
The Summit "usable" sf is not quiet 3ft if I remember correctly. I think BB is closer to target there. If I remember correctly, PE includes the space the baffle rests in and the space above it in that 3sf. They measure from exact total top to bottom, side to side.
Anyways, enjoy your heat, I know I am.

I guess the Summit has more control than my Endeavor did, I can only comment on the non cat I ran. I guess I should no better reading oldspark posting about his inability to get his Summit as hot as he'd like. ;-) If I loaded my Endeavor full it would head for the 600-700 range no matter how I ran it, main reason I was looking for something with more control for the shoulder season. I guess that could be a brand thing more than a non cat thing. I see a lot of other Lopi owners posting about high temps. The Summit was on my short list when I was looking to replace the Endeavor with a larger stove. I'd still like to burn one some day, maybe I'll add a Summit insert to my living room at some point.

As for usable space unfortunately all we have is manufactures posted specs when making these ridiculous comparisons. We should have everyone get really geeky and weigh out each load and compare numbers. :lol:

I've said it before this stove really shines in the shoulder season, it becomes more human as the temps drop. One load a day during the shoulder season doesn't mean I'm getting more out of my wood, just less hassle from the stove.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Air in is air out, I can't see much difference at that point between a cat and non cat. Both can have the air cut back to a point, and I imagine the lowest setting of air intake has got to be close to the same whether cat or non cat. EPA stoves regardless will only let the air be cut back so far.
I am not being a smart ass, I these are serious questions.
Hogz

In addition to the super long burns at a low burn rate, it also does a very nice job of a more even delivery throughout the burn cycle at high burn. Our stove sits right in the middle of the living space not off in a stove room or the basement. It gets stuffed full every load. When its cold, that means 100+ pounds of wood gets stuffed in that steel box and burned in 12 hours without going nuclear.

Given that it is a wood burner, heat output is obviously not constant throughout the burn cycle. But, the combination of the tstat and the cat make it much more even with little to no dependence on the operator. In an ideal world, I would have two Kings sitting side by side on offset burn cycles.

 

[oldspark]

"I guess the Summit has more control than my Endeavor did, I can only comment on the non cat I ran. I guess I should no better reading oldspark posting about his inability to get his Summit as hot as he’d like. If I loaded my Endeavor full it would head for the 600-700 range no matter how I ran it"
The whole not getting my summit hot enough and "cant control the stove" posts by others could be remedied by a flue damper, I use mine now and the control over the fire is much better and I have higher stove temps on a regular basis.
I tend to stay out of these ford vs chevy threads (informative to read though) but if I truly wanted the "perfect" wood burner I would try at least 3 different brands for about 2 years each and the Blaze King would be on the list.

 

[jeff_t]

Air in is air out, I can't see much difference at that point between a cat and non cat. Both can have the air cut back to a point, and I imagine the lowest setting of air intake has got to be close to the same whether cat or non cat. EPA stoves regardless will only let the air be cut back so far.
I am not being a smart ass, I these are serious questions.
Hogz

In addition to the super long burns at a low burn rate, it also does a very nice job of a more even delivery throughout the burn cycle at high burn. Our stove sits right in the middle of the living space not off in a stove room or the basement. It gets stuffed full every load. When its cold, that means 100+ pounds of wood gets stuffed in that steel box and burned in 12 hours without going nuclear.

Given that it is a wood burner, heat output is obviously not constant throughout the burn cycle. But, the combination of the tstat and the cat make it much more even with little to no dependence on the operator. In an ideal world, I would have two Kings sitting side by side on offset burn cycles.

I read all the posts about overfire, and I can't imagine having that problem with this stove. Maybe it's because I stuff as many really big splits in that big firebox as I can and fill in with some small ones, and don't have it offgassing too quickly. Maybe its my relatively short flue and I have an adequate but not excessive draft. Now, the other day I loaded up and left the thermostat on 3 and got in the shower. I came back about 15 minutes later and the cat probe was quite a bit past active and the stovetop was a little over 700. I cut it back to 2 and turned the fans on high, and about 5 minutes later all was good.

Heat output may not be constant, but 12-16 hours at 500-600 is pretty close. After that there isn't enough fuel left close enough together to maintain that. When I pull it all from the sides and pile it up in the middle, it's good for a few more hours.

 

[Todd]

Both can have the air cut back to a point, and I imagine the lowest setting of air intake has got to be close to the same whether cat or non cat. EPA stoves regardless will only let the air be cut back so far.
I am not being a smart ass, I these are serious questions.
Hogz

I'm pretty sure cat stoves can get away with passing the EPA test with less air than non cats because they can achieve clean burns with 400-500 degree fire boxes where the non cats need 1100. Less air in, less air out. You can also see this in the flue temps, non cats run hotter stacks from all the posts I've seen here. My internal temp cruises around 400 with a full load where similar sized Hearthstones are almost double that.

Like others I agree that cat stoves shine in the shoulder seasons and mild Winter temps but when it gets colder I burn my cats much hotter like a non cat which cuts my burn times down by about 1/3.

 

[maxed_out]

solar, geez 2 kings side by side. you could heat an outdoor park in old forge in january with that. I wonder if anyone has tried 2 side by side. that would be toasty!

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the informative responses.
Always looking to know and learn more.
I must admit, I am curious about cat stoves, esp the King. But alot of it was the hype when I bought the Summit.
I love the Summit, but would love to have both burning in the house to get some real side by side comparisons.
And still have an Englander 30 to hook up.
Great answers and knowledge, thanks to all that responded.

 

[Todd]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the informative responses.
Always looking to know and learn more.
I must admit, I am curious about cat stoves, esp the King. But alot of it was the hype when I bought the Summit.
I love the Summit, but would love to have both burning in the house to get some real side by side comparisons.
And still have an Englander 30 to hook up.
Great answers and knowledge, thanks to all that responded.

Sell the 30 and buy a BK? You know you want to. Lol

 

[BrotherBart]

I'm pretty sure cat stoves can get away with passing the EPA test with less air than non cats because they can achieve clean burns with 400-500 degree fire boxes where the non cats need 1100. Less air in, less air out. You can also see this in the flue temps, non cats run hotter stacks from all the posts I've seen here. My internal temp cruises around 400 with a full load where similar sized Hearthstones are almost double that.

I always get a kick out of that. Whether the smoke is burning at 1100 in the firebox or in the cat chamber there is an 1100 degree burn going on in the stove. Only difference is where.

With the non-cat it is in the space between the wood and the baffle. In the cat stove it is in the cat.

 

[North of 60]

All I know is I can milk more controllable heat out of the BK than I ever could with my previous Napoleon.

 

[BrotherBart]

All I know is I can milk more controllable heat out of the BK than I ever could with my previous Napoleon.

What was the chimney setup on that Nap North?

 

[rdust]

All I know is I can milk more controllable heat out of the BK than I ever could with my previous Napoleon.

Really that's all that matters, my Endeavor did a fine job I really liked that stove. The BK has made heating way easier with less fiddling/loading and evened out the temps in ways I could never accomplish with the Endeavor. The 24 hour shoulder season burns don't hurt either! Like I said before it works as you and everyone else advertised! :coolgrin: My Endeavor would've never been able to have a smoke free stack with a full load of wood and a 300* stove top.

 

[iceman]

Sometimes I wonder if I could, put a manual damper in would that extend my burn times ...
What are people getting on the progress hybrid? Are they seeing the same burn times as the same size blaze king?

 

[North of 60]

All I know is I can milk more controllable heat out of the BK than I ever could with my previous Napoleon.

What was the chimney setup on that Nap North?

Same as the the Princess. 6" double wall for 5ft with 16" 90deg offset to support box with clean out Tee. From that 16ft of class A straight shot up.

 

[leeave96]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the informative responses.
Always looking to know and learn more.
I must admit, I am curious about cat stoves, esp the King. But alot of it was the hype when I bought the Summit.
I love the Summit, but would love to have both burning in the house to get some real side by side comparisons.
And still have an Englander 30 to hook up.
Great answers and knowledge, thanks to all that responded.

You will not be dissapointed with the 30 - especially if you like heat and a lot of it when required. Now that I've got the hang of running mine, we try to keep it crusing no higher than 550 - just because it hasn't been cold enough to need more heat out of it - but it's good to know that there is plenty of heat capacity reserve for January and February burns.

BTW, I threw a square split that I cut some time ago that was about an 8 x 8 x 18 inch in size into the 30. Along with some other splits in the box, that sucker burned for a loooong time. It was like I put a piece of railroad tie into it!

Hope you get your 30 installed sooner than later!

Bill

 

[leeave96]

I'm pretty sure cat stoves can get away with passing the EPA test with less air than non cats because they can achieve clean burns with 400-500 degree fire boxes where the non cats need 1100. Less air in, less air out. You can also see this in the flue temps, non cats run hotter stacks from all the posts I've seen here. My internal temp cruises around 400 with a full load where similar sized Hearthstones are almost double that.

I always get a kick out of that. Whether the smoke is burning at 1100 in the firebox or in the cat chamber there is an 1100 degree burn going on in the stove. Only difference is where.

With the non-cat it is in the space between the wood and the baffle. In the cat stove it is in the cat.

Not exactly. The cat lowers the ignition temp of the smoke to 500ish degrees so you don't have to run the stove as hard as you would on a non-cat stove to make enough heat for their secondaries to burn. Also, once you get the cat lit-off, it will feed itself on smoke and you can turn the damper down and let it run on auto pilot.

Bill