Madison runs hot.

[RopeS]

i spoke to one of the stove designers who mentioned to me that the "medium" firebox type stove is meant to cruise at 600 but it can get hotter without worry so if its peaking at 700 and dying back to 650 once it settles in then its not somthing we are really worried about as far as the stove overfiring.

last summer i burned several fires in one in my test trailer connected to a class A flue (not a diliution tunnel) and routinely saw temps hit 700-750 right after a hot reload , though the stove was soon settling back to about 650 and cruising there.

That puts my mind at ease for sure, and sounds just like what we are experiencing. Mine has never hit 700, but good to know that 650 will not hurt it!

 

[begreen]

Yes, the statement in the manual defies common observation and sense. An occasional spike to 650 or 700F is not overfiring the stove.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

i think the lab guys were more thinking about spikes when they said its not a big deal but we certainly wouldnt want to "cruise" above 700 while teaking to it and easing back shouldnt be any issue (at least not in my mind)

 

[begreen]

Unfortunately the manual is not as clear. This is the misleading statement:

"Allowing the unit to reach 650°F (343°C) or higher is defined as over‐firing and will result in unit damage."

 

[BrotherBart]

At least it is one of only three or four that I can think of that say anything other that "If it glows, that blows."

 

[Silenced38]

Is that with the blower running?

I dont run the blower except to try to cool it off.

 

[Nick Mystic]

As I've mentioned before I think it is critical to take stove temperature readings from where the manual for the stove specifies. My Jotul F 600 calls for placing a thermometer on one of the four corners on the top and not to burn over 600 F. When my stove is burning at 400 F on a corner I get readings over the 600 F limit on my IR thermometer if I shoot the top center or near the flue collar on the top. That means there is at least a 50% difference between these two areas. If I was reading 700 F on a corner I'm pretty sure I'd be over firing my stove and it would probably be glowing orange. Everyone who posts temperature readings for their stove should specify where they are taking the reading and if that is the location the stove manufacturer specifies or else any data you post will be meaningless.

 

[begreen]

Good point, though I find the Jotul F600 manual language is more helpful. It says that a temp of 400-600F is optimal. It does not say that over 600F will overfire the stove. The only reference to overfiring is if one uses the ashpan door as an air supply.

I had the Castine up to 700F+ more than once and while it was invigorating, the stove was not overfiring. Hot, yes, but not near glowing hot.

 

[Silenced38]

Unfortunately the manual is not as clear. This is the misleading statement:

"Allowing the unit to reach 650°F (343°C) or higher is defined as over‐firing and will result in unit damage."

Thats what had me concerned

 

[BrotherBart]

It will be interesting to see a Madison owner use an IR thermo to measure temp of the rest of the stove top while the one on the stove corner is sitting at 600 or 650.

 

[Silenced38]

It will be interesting to see a Madison owner use an IR thermo to measure temp of the rest of the stove top while the one on the stove corner is sitting at 600 or 650.

Im gona do that this weekend if its cold enough to burn.

 

[WayneN]

I'm following also. I might have crappy wood as its not seasoned properly... but I tend to run 400-500 on a full load using the thermometer on the top left of the stovetop ( see photo.... just ignore the yummy grilled cheese and ham lol )

I was thinking it's running too cold and it sits near 200-250 in the morning after an overnight burn ( 8 hrs ). It's still giving off heat at that point but not anywhere near as much as when it reads 500. It's been heating a 2 story 1024ft townhouse to 70/75 in all rooms.... downstairs stays 5 degrees warmer and it's been in the mid / high 20's ( F ) at night. Heat is pretty even if I leave all the bedroom doors open. Perfect layout I think lol ( stairs go up to a small 4x4 hall then all bedroom / bathroom doors right to the hall ).

This thread has me wondering if my draft is weak or am I where I should be with semi unseasoned wood. In either case, 70's at an 8hr runtime seems decent and I can push 80's if I keep the air open.



Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[Josephnyoung1]

Just got my Madison installed a couple weeks ago, and I did the break in fires and have one thermometer. I was using it on the stovepipe 18" up and like to keep those temps around 300-350. I got curious and out it on the stovetop to check the temps there and to my surprise it likes to climb quickly and was much higher than I thought they would be.

Most of the time it likes to run right around 650 as others have been describing. Last night on a full load after getting it going and pulling the air damper back all the way at around 450 it still climbed quickly and tremendously fast. When it was at around 650 I turned the blower on high trying to cool it off and also had a small fan blowing the warm air out of the room. It got up to 800 and had me worried as the manual does say anything over 650 is An overfire. My chimney is a half foot below the minimum recomended of 15' from the stove top. Single wall pipe up to the chimney ceiling support, double wall class a from there up. Temps outside were around 21* F. My wood is pretty dry, no moisture meter but when you knock on it it gives the hollow ring telling me it's dry, with a few pieces not quite as dry.

Is there any way to stop it from rising so high? There is no chimney damper so the only two options I had I used and it still didn't help. I don't want to damage my new stove but if is going to run at what it likes. I see no warpage today, and at the time it was at 800 nothing was glowing or even close to it. Did anyone find a way to resolve this or talk with englander about why is rated so low yet likes to climb so high?

I am thinking it must have been drafting too much last night but it's hard to believe because the stove chimney is just below their recommendations or right at it.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[spirilis]

Just got my Madison installed a couple weeks ago, and I did the break in fires and have one thermometer. I was using it on the stovepipe 18" up and like to keep those temps around 300-350. I got curious and out it on the stovetop to check the temps there and to my surprise it likes to climb quickly and was much higher than I thought they would be.

Most of the time it likes to run right around 650 as others have been describing. Last night on a full load after getting it going and pulling the air damper back all the way at around 450 it still climbed quickly and tremendously fast. When it was at around 650 I turned the blower on high trying to cool it off and also had a small fan blowing the warm air out of the room. It got up to 800 and had me worried as the manual does say anything over 650 is An overfire. My chimney is a half foot below the minimum recomended of 15' from the stove top. Single wall pipe up to the chimney ceiling support, double wall class a from there up. Temps outside were around 21* F. My wood is pretty dry, no moisture meter but when you knock on it it gives the hollow ring telling me it's dry, with a few pieces not quite as dry.

Is there any way to stop it from rising so high? There is no chimney damper so the only two options I had I used and it still didn't help. I don't want to damage my new stove but if is going to run at what it likes. I see no warpage today, and at the time it was at 800 nothing was glowing or even close to it. Did anyone find a way to resolve this or talk with englander about why is rated so low yet likes to climb so high?

I am thinking it must have been drafting too much last night but it's hard to believe because the stove chimney is just below their recommendations or right at it.

Thanks,

Joe

That's cookin' pretty good. What kind of wood btw? I find the Madison overfires basically anytime you over-feed the burn tubes... wood stacked too high up or wood that offgasses/smolders faster than a bat out of hell.

PS- I never get tired of seeing that raging "gates of hell" effect when the Madison's burn tubes are blasting all the way in the back (w/ contribution from the middle)

 

[Josephnyoung1]

I did forget to add the type of wood didn't I. Last night I had a lot of barkless dry white oak and maybe a piece of ash. I like to consider my full load below the top of the bricks and in the pic you can see its quite below that level. If I close the damper off too fast it dies, but when it goes, it just goes! I'd be totally fine watchin those tunes rage, only if I knew I wasn't going to damage the stove. I was checking for air leaks etc but found nothing. Thing is with the damper open it usually burns hotter and when closed it usually cruises but last night I closed it down and it just kept on climbing with an intensity that was mesmorizing. When I finally saw the temp start to drop I was a bit relieved. I've seen others say they can't get the stove up to temp, but I just can keep mine down. I need to figure something out so I can start to use some of my locust.

 

[spirilis]

I did forget to add the type of wood didn't I. Last night I had a lot of barkless dry white oak and maybe a piece of ash. I like to consider my full load below the top of the bricks and in the pic you can see its quite below that level. If I close the damper off too fast it dies, but when it goes, it just goes! I'd be totally fine watchin those tunes rage, only if I knew I wasn't going to damage the stove. I was checking for air leaks etc but found nothing. Thing is with the damper open it usually burns hotter and when closed it usually cruises but last night I closed it down and it just kept on climbing with an intensity that was mesmorizing. When I finally saw the temp start to drop I was a bit relieved. I've seen others say they can't get the stove up to temp, but I just can keep mine down. I need to figure something out so I can start to use some of my locust.

Doesn't sound like you're overfilling it to me then. Do you start fires bottom-up or top-down? I do top-down and find it works very well with the Madison, which means my large stuff is at the bottom and the smaller kindling is up top; since the smaller kindling is up there it will burn down and "recede" from the baffles so the inferno is contained a bit. I also typically stack front-to-back (North/South or N/S as many call it) but that typically serves to intensify the fire more.

 

[jatoxico]

jyoung- Maybe you know this already but since you mentioned the fire dies when you cut back the primary air make sure you're cutting the air back in stages. Cut the primary until the fire gets a bit lazy let it build again then cut more air until you get to the desired setting. That can help keep the fire and stove in control.

I didn't see that mentioned what type you have buy it may also be worth checking your thermometer. It would not be the first time one gave an inaccurate reading. Can be right at lower temps and off at higher for instance.

 

[wood_girl]

Hello, new member here; I joined because I saw posts about the Madison stove so maybe I can gain some understanding through talking with other Madison owners. My first real burning season with this stove so I hope to learn from the forum. I seem to have the opposite issue with my stove, hard to get it started but once the chimney and stove are hot, it improves. I have seen temps around 625-650F at the recommended measuring position but when I pull the damper out, the fire and temp declines. I wonder if those that are having issues with over firing have inspected the damper. I have a bad smoke issue when first starting the stove in the mornings; and even with a huge bed of hot coals, I place new wood in and it starts smoking out the door before I can finish loading. It is a bit of a nuisance. Anyway, has anyone inspected the damper to see if it is opening and closing properly when the rod is pushed in and out? I haven't. I do have an out the wall chimney with a 90 elbow inside. England Stove Works told me that the required 15 feet of chimney is measured from the cap to the floor and I do have that.

 

[bcrtops]

@wood_girl
You have the minimum chimney height. Adding a horizontal section w/2 90's negates a few feet of chimney, hence, if you could add another 2' or more of chimney, it would greatly benefit your draw & smoke problems. The outside (cold) chimney, also, has a large effect upon the draw, i.e., lack thereof.

 

[spirilis]

Hello, new member here; I joined because I saw posts about the Madison stove so maybe I can gain some understanding through talking with other Madison owners. My first real burning season with this stove so I hope to learn from the forum. I seem to have the opposite issue with my stove, hard to get it started but once the chimney and stove are hot, it improves. I have seen temps around 625-650F at the recommended measuring position but when I pull the damper out, the fire and temp declines. I wonder if those that are having issues with over firing have inspected the damper. I have a bad smoke issue when first starting the stove in the mornings; and even with a huge bed of hot coals, I place new wood in and it starts smoking out the door before I can finish loading. It is a bit of a nuisance. Anyway, has anyone inspected the damper to see if it is opening and closing properly when the rod is pushed in and out? I haven't. I do have an out the wall chimney with a 90 elbow inside. England Stove Works told me that the required 15 feet of chimney is measured from the cap to the floor and I do have that.

Check moisture content of your firewood too. A wet split or under-seasoned will really kill the secondary combustion and "easy heat" in a hurry.

 

[Attaboy]

Chimney probably needs lengthening, check the quality and moisture of your wood. Too much moisture is not good, should be below 20% moisture content.

 

[mncvy99]

HI Everyone.

Just like a few people on here, I am a new proud owner of a Englander Madison stove and I am finding out that this stove is really finicky. I have been around wood stoves for a while, but this one seems touchy feely. for beginners, it seems to run hot, well into the 550 to 650 range on a full load of wood. That is even with the damper fully shut down. The damper control does not really seem to offer a wide range of control. I mean even on low setting at 500 degrees the flame is roaring and temperatures clime into the 650 range. I have 16 feet of flue pipe. Wood is seasoned for the most part from a local supplier that has been highly recommended

Also starting this thing is a nightmare does not seem to really draft well and is hard to get going. I have to leave the door open for 10 or so minutes. If I shut the door fire dies. I almost feel like the doghouse air supply is not big enough for startup. A point source air inlet kind of seems a little weird compared to other stoves.

I have heard great reviews about the stove and hence why I bought it. I guess there is a learning curve

 

[spirilis]

HI Everyone.

Just like a few people on here, I am a new proud owner of a Englander Madison stove and I am finding out that this stove is really finicky. I have been around wood stoves for a while, but this one seems touchy feely. for beginners, it seems to run hot, well into the 550 to 650 range on a full load of wood. That is even with the damper fully shut down. The damper control does not really seem to offer a wide range of control. I mean even on low setting at 500 degrees the flame is roaring and temperatures clime into the 650 range. I have 16 feet of flue pipe. Wood is seasoned for the most part from a local supplier that has been highly recommended

Also starting this thing is a nightmare does not seem to really draft well and is hard to get going. I have to leave the door open for 10 or so minutes. If I shut the door fire dies. I almost feel like the doghouse air supply is not big enough for startup. A point source air inlet kind of seems a little weird compared to other stoves.

I have heard great reviews about the stove and hence why I bought it. I guess there is a learning curve

Yep my formula so far is.... however you start your fire, pile it up to an inch or 2 under the baffles. Preferably with quick-burning kindling at the top (top-down fire) if you don't want it to go nuclear on you, so it "recedes" down from the baffle as the kindling burns down, but burns hot enough on startup up there near the insulated baffles to really get things going strong. Wet wood really kills the fire too. For smaller fires I just build as narrow a pile as I can get with kindling on top, and lots of space between the wood & side firebricks.

Recently I added a 1/2" thick ceramic insulation blanket on top of my baffles (don't want to add too much or else you're taking away from the heat extraction chamber above the baffles, 1/4" would probably be fine too), it doesn't quite cover the whole surface area but most of it, and I've noticed stronger secondary combustion (or what I will call a "brighter firebox" overall) midway through the burn when the kindling & splits have burned down quite a bit. More flame (wider flame column between the wood & baffles/burn tubes) in the firebox overall even when the wood is 5-6 inches below the baffles.

This would not help you control an overfire obviously, but for controlling an overfire I have had success with the following (even after adding the insulation blanket above the baffles):
1. Rear blower fan on high (I have the AC-30 upgrade which has a variable dial controller and runs quieter overall)
2. Eco-fan pointing AT the flue pipe - this really seems to help a lot, reduce the draft a bit
3. Damper shut all the way (pulled out)

Also make sure the door is sealing properly, do the dollar-bill test (place a dollar bill between the stove & parts of the door, obviously when the stove is cold, shut the door and try removing the dollar bill).

With the 3 steps listed above, I typically see a 750F stovetop fall to ~450-500F within 15min.

 

[mncvy99]

Hello, new member here; I joined because I saw posts about the Madison stove so maybe I can gain some understanding through talking with other Madison owners. My first real burning season with this stove so I hope to learn from the forum. I seem to have the opposite issue with my stove, hard to get it started but once the chimney and stove are hot, it improves. I have seen temps around 625-650F at the recommended measuring position but when I pull the damper out, the fire and temp declines. I wonder if those that are having issues with over firing have inspected the damper. I have a bad smoke issue when first starting the stove in the mornings; and even with a huge bed of hot coals, I place new wood in and it starts smoking out the door before I can finish loading. It is a bit of a nuisance. Anyway, has anyone inspected the damper to see if it is opening and closing properly when the rod is pushed in and out? I haven't. I do have an out the wall chimney with a 90 elbow inside. England Stove Works told me that the required 15 feet of chimney is measured from the cap to the floor and I do have that.

Yep my formula so far is.... however you start your fire, pile it up to an inch or 2 under the baffles. Preferably with quick-burning kindling at the top (top-down fire) if you don't want it to go nuclear on you, so it "recedes" down from the baffle as the kindling burns down, but burns hot enough on startup up there near the insulated baffles to really get things going strong. Wet wood really kills the fire too. For smaller fires I just build as narrow a pile as I can get with kindling on top, and lots of space between the wood & side firebricks.

Recently I added a 1/2" thick ceramic insulation blanket on top of my baffles (don't want to add too much or else you're taking away from the heat extraction chamber above the baffles, 1/4" would probably be fine too), it doesn't quite cover the whole surface area but most of it, and I've noticed stronger secondary combustion (or what I will call a "brighter firebox" overall) midway through the burn when the kindling & splits have burned down quite a bit. More flame (wider flame column between the wood & baffles/burn tubes) in the firebox overall even when the wood is 5-6 inches below the baffles.

This would not help you control an overfire obviously, but for controlling an overfire I have had success with the following (even after adding the insulation blanket above the baffles):
1. Rear blower fan on high (I have the AC-30 upgrade which has a variable dial controller and runs quieter overall)
2. Eco-fan pointing AT the flue pipe - this really seems to help a lot, reduce the draft a bit
3. Damper shut all the way (pulled out)

Also make sure the door is sealing properly, do the dollar-bill test (place a dollar bill between the stove & parts of the door, obviously when the stove is cold, shut the door and try removing the dollar bill).

With the 3 steps listed above, I typically see a 750F stovetop fall to ~450-500F within 15min.

I will check the door seals. I have a double wall flue inside the house for clearance purposes, so I am sure that adds to drafting. I do use the fan to try and cool off the box. I just bought a ecofan, should be here today, but were having a blizzard in NY as I type. I will try the top down fire method as well later today when I get home.

 

[begreen]

The stove air does not just enter via the doghouse. A large amount of primary air enters via the airwash.

Can you post a picture of your setup and describe the flue system, elbows and all from the stove to the chimney cap?