M55 - disappointing results

[tjnamtiw]

Didn't I see somewhere on here that there is a single pipe which accommodates both exhaust venting and OAK, with one line running inside the other and the exhaust prewarming the combustion air for greater efficiency? IIRC, this might be a solution for you.

His problem is WELL BEYOND anything that an OAK would gain. The few posts above you tell the true problem > HEAT SINK. Floor, walls, ceiling, interior walls, doorways, windows, drafts, NO INSULATION anywhere. He says the one steam radiator heated the room better but if he has his boiler running then ALL THE REST of the radiators in the house are pumping btu's into adjacent rooms (at a huge cost, probably).
If he wants to save money, his only solution is a BIG coal stoker. (broken link removed to http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/files/77994427.pdf)
(broken link removed to http://keystoker.com/products.php#cfb)

He needs to get his money back and invest in something that WILL WORK! You all are just leading him down the path of no return, literally.

 

[martinstove]

I have to add- I grew up and lived in Western MD and Eastern WV- do you live an old stone home? If so- how long have you lived there?

I had very good friends of mine that went through 2,000 gal of propane a year to heat their stone farmhouse. Yes- 2,000 gal a year. It takes a lot, and I mean A LOT of BTU's to constantly run in order to heat that stone and plaster up. I would imagine you would not need an OAK in that house either- direct the warm air up and the cold air will pull from the bottom.

Heck I don't run an OAK and I have a fairly tight house at 3,000 sq ft in Montana and I heat my home fine with a FS M55.

I would love to know more about the home you live in, the layout and then make some recommendations. Most folks I knew with old limestone houses ran solid wood stoves ALL DAY just to keep it at 65 deg. If you're looking for higher, you may be pi*ssing in the wind.

House is in MD. Basement (~8ft ceilings) has stone foundation, plaster ceiling, no insulation. First floor is solid stone (~18in deep!) with original [beautiful] windows. All first floor windows are painted shut. No perceptible draft, even with the little smoke machine. All doors have storm doors, slight draft on some of these - only if you put your hand 1in from door. Second floor is stucco. All 2nd fl windows/doors have storms. Attic has R19 - plan on increasing to R49, original slate roof so I don't want to spray foam. Not sure if balloon framed but it appears some insulation has gone down 2nd floor walls. Doing a renovation soon and will see just how far insulation goes down.
House seems to stay remarkably cool - in both Summer and Winter. Very shaded in summer.

Layout is not ideal for heating - many exterior walls. House is basically a long, narrow rectangle. Roughly 25ftx80ft. Stove is in Kitchen fireplace at 1 end of house, 3 exterior walls. There is an open doorway to a staircase at the end of the kitchen - I notice a lot of hot air is going up there and heating the area above. Right next to this door is an open doorway to the Den (where I was hoping to get more heat) - it seems the majority of heat is going up the stairs rather than past to the den.

Have had the stove on 5 for 5.5 hours this morning. End of kitchen across from stove is 69 and Den is 64 (thermometers are 15ft apart). Thermometer at top of kitchen stairs reads 70 - this is usually the coldest part of the house. So obviously a lot of heat is going up there. Might have to block off the stairwell. 45 deg outside, real feel 38.

Used ~1,500 gallons of oil this winter and the house was cold. In the high 50s most of the time. Used electric space heaters in a few select rooms. Estimating I might have used 4,000 gallons had I kept the house at 70. Granted this was one of the worst winters on record. 1 zone boiler, 2.3 gallons/hr. Not greatly oversized. Natural gas not available.

Thanks for the recommendations.

 

[Mt Bob]

His problem is WELL BEYOND anything that an OAK would gain. The few posts above you tell the true problem > HEAT SINK. Floor, walls, ceiling, interior walls, doorways, windows, drafts, NO INSULATION anywhere. He says the one steam radiator heated the room better but if he has his boiler running then ALL THE REST of the radiators in the house are pumping btu's into adjacent rooms (at a huge cost, probably).
If he wants to save money, his only solution is a BIG coal stoker. (broken link removed to http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/files/77994427.pdf)
(broken link removed to http://keystoker.com/products.php#cfb)

He needs to get his money back and invest in something that WILL WORK! You all are just leading him down the path of no return, literally.

I agree.In his last post he said 18" stone walls.Thats about r2,if perfect.My camper has better insulation.Need to seal and cover both sides of those walls.Or put in big coal stove,as you said!

 

[tjnamtiw]

I would get a Keystoker coal AND oil boiler, if I were you. Keep your house in the 70's all winter for less than you are paying to keep it in the 50's. You most likely have a basement that lends itself perfectly to a large coal bin and easy loading. It probably had coal to begin with but one of those huge monsters we all remember as dirty, nasty, belching, scary labor intensive things. Now they are easy to service, easy to maintain, and very simple to operate. With the option to use oil in an emergency, you're covered both ways or you could go strictly coal. My brother in law has had one for years and never had a single problem. Seriously look into it.
Even if you have to pay $250 to $300 a ton delivered, you are getting the same heat value as almost two tons of pellets AND you have an appliance that can deliver all the heat you want for your ENTIRE house whereas your pellet stove will NEVER deliver enough heat, even for one end of your house.

 

[tjnamtiw]

If I kept my house in the mid-50's all winter, I wouldn't be on a pellet forum. I'd be on a divorce forum!

 

[Threerun]

I'll bet that is a nice home! Unfortunately without some drastic measures to insulate the house, you will be fighting that stone in the winter. I had a good friend of mine that owned a big old 1800's solid limestone home in Harpers Ferry/Charlestown. They had two solid wood stoves on the main floor that were basically space heaters. They also burned propane and the home was still cold (and damp). They just had to learn to live with it, and if you wanted warm- you sat by a woodstove.

 

[Threerun]

X2 Hey threerun I grew up in frederick area.

Ha- my wife and lived in Frederick for 3-4 years before moving to WV, back in 1991-1995-ish. Braddock Heights and then in town.

Boy do I ever like Montana better!!

 

[RKS130]

I agree.In his last post he said 18" stone walls.Thats about r2,if perfect.My camper has better insulation.Need to seal and cover both sides of those walls.Or put in big coal stove,as you said!

I am going to defend stone houses. Ours is two stories - stone and brick - about 900 sq. ft. on each level. Other than when temps are in the teens for a few days in a row, we heat the whole joint with our Harman Accentra FS and HD pellets. The stone walls, along with the real plaster interior walls, hold thermal mass for days.

We have no insulation at all (house built in 1910 by the Italian stonemasons who built the Croton Dam) but are always comfortable. Yes, in extreme weather I burn a bit of oil for my steam radiators, but pellets do the job 95% of the time all by their lonesome. Just sayin.

 

[Threerun]

You are fortunate. Most older stone homes in the Mid Atlantic are a pia to keep warm. I'm no expert, but I've known enough people who either have lived or do live in them and they all complain about the energy required to get the house 'warm'. It may be due to the moisture and limestone. I've spent a few nights in my friends stone home and I didn't find it uncomfortable, but it was damp and cool.

Here's an old article about a house in Gettysburh PA that used a solarium to provide more than half of their heating- http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...J5cAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QFgNAAAAIBAJ&pg=5793,3031211

 

[Threerun]

As a kid I lived in my Mom's family farmhouse in Ohio. Late 1800's, cavity wall construction. We had a HUGE grate on the floor in the parlor, and directly underneath was the old bolier, which was initially coal. That boiler ran constantly in the winter and even then the upstairs was cold as ice. We slept with a ton of blankets.

I still shiver when I recall those winter nights in the mid 70's.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Yep, I remember my grandpop's house with that huge, ornate grate in the middle of the floor! It wasn't a boiler, though, but just a radiant heater that let the heat go up through that grate. The ONLY warm spot in that house was standing on the grate! Sure you can get it 'warm' but it will take a few DAYS! The definition of 'warm' back then was not the same as today either.

 

[smwilliamson]

Insulation is kinda important when trying to heat a home. That stove should though heat the 1000sqft around it. Oak will help some. Run it for a day straight and see what the radiant will do.

 

[martinstove]

Just updating this thread that I started last season.

Turns out that there was a problem with the stove - unrelated to an OAK, insulation, size of house, stone construction, etc. etc. etc.

I kept searching for an explanation because something wasn't adding up. Came across the thread below and was able to fix my problem by adjusting the auger cover. I guess there was an issue with these units (M55s) overheating when they first came out. So it seems the manufacturer increased the power of the fan (which also made it much louder as apparently it was very quiet prior) and also installed an auger cover that limited the amount of pellets that would be fed into the firebox.

So I slid the unit out, opened up the back (not easy for an insert - had to do this blind), and slid the auger cover up so that more pellets would be fed at a time.

Voila, problem solved.

Hope this helps others who might have the same issue.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/enviro-m55-cast-fs-flame-pattern.92422/

Edit: I posted before/after pics of the auger cover here if anyone is curious: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/m55-insert-auger-cover.133110/#post-1793590

 

[Lake Girl]

Thanks for the up-date on the problem and fix. From the look of the other thread, a few others have encountered the same problem.