Looking for new insert - Blaze King?

[TheAdmiralBurns]

Hello everyone!

This is my first post here. I just moved to a new home and am shopping for an insert. I have some experience with a free standing wood stove from my old home.

My new house has 3600 sq. ft, the downstairs where the stove will be is approx 2600 of that. I'm NOT looking for whole house heat, but rather supplemental heat downstairs. The existing fireplace is a masonry fireplace and the chimney is 30'

My question is as follows. I have always longed for the regulated, extended burn times offered by a Blaze King. I am planning to buy an Ashford 25 insert from Blaze King. That said, the more I read, based on posts on another forum, it seems that Blaze King inserts have nowhere near the extended burn times of their free standing stoves, and that most users are getting 10 hours, maximum, with 7-9 hours being more common (on low temp setting).

Given the fact that the primary reason I was looking at Blaze King was the extended burn times, I'm beginning to wonder if it is worth the additional maintenance of a catalytic when the burn times are perhaps not actually extended as compared with simple secondary burn systems. As an example, my wife loved the look of the Vermont Castings Montpelier 2.

I'd love to hear any feedback from Blaze King INSERT owners on this forum, which is perhaps a more experienced wood burning forum, regarding the real world burn times they are experiencing.

Thanks in advance for your comments, I'm very close to to "pulling the trigger" and just want to confirm that I'm making a good decision!

Best,
Burns

 

[stoveliker]

I don't have an insert.
But I can say this: with 30 ft of flue (get it lined with an insulated liner), you'll have too much draft. That'll cut into the burn time (too) - for any insert you put in.

So when planning for this, you will need to add at least 1 key damper. Possibly even two. That requires planning, for one, and even more for two dampers.

Also, if the flame visuals matter, any extended burn on a BK would give a poor show, as no flame will be visible. (Though the overdraft may change that to having always some flame - but this is a bad thing if you want extended times with low output.)

I would avoid any insert that's an easy breather in your case.

 

[kborndale]

BKs can get the long burn times when burning at a lower heat rate like you would do in the fall and spring. Once it's really cold outside and you have to turn the thermostat up high they don't get the same burn time. With any modern stove the most important thing is to have good dry wood which requires wood to have been split and stacked for at least a year.

 

[TheAdmiralBurns]

Thanks for the replies.

I definitely understand the importance of dry wood and will be rotating and properly seasoning my wood. I just moved here so I ordered the first two cords already, seasoned from a reliable source. At the same time I'm stacking fresh cut wood for years to come.

I don't mind running it higher during the day for additional heat and to achieve the fire visual - I'm more interested in extending burn times for overnight. I used to struggle in my old house with my old stove. If I put enough wood into it for an overnight burn to stay toasty, I was always worried about the temps running away...having a thermostat device is very compelling to me in this regard.

Thanks for the note about key dampers - I'll discuss with the installer / dealer.

Which inserts are an "easy breather", which are not? Thanks.

 

[begreen]

BK stoves shine when the heat output is lower and running them low and slow is a win. They are well made and supported. However, 2600 sq ft is a large area, especially if high ceilings and large windows are involved. In that case, the end game is more heat. When pushed hard, the BK insert times come down to that of secondary burn stoves in the realm of 8-10 hrs. For that reason, an insert with an extra cubic foot of capacity could be a better fit. The Osburn 3500 has a 3.5 cu ft firebox and is an easy breather. That is, it will work on a shorter flue system of 12-13'. Many Canadian stoves (Regency, Pacific Energy, Osburn) can be considered easy breathing.

A 30' high flue is likely to be an issue for any insert due to extra strong draft. Here's a good thread on a fellow who lost his Regency insert due to overfiring on a tall flue, and how he eventually tamed it with a new PE Summit install.

Thread 'Initial Draft Readings for Pacific Energy Summit LE Insert - Cause for Concern?'

Oct 3, 2022

Hello.

I have all the instrumentation for the new Pacific Energy Summit LE Insert up and running. I have some initial readings from a fire today, just to see how things are woking. It is 50 degrees outside and no wind. With my prior installation my draft was very high (measured > 0.2) and contributed to the failure of my prior install.

My initial readings of draft after getting a ~3/4 loaded box up to a steady cruise, gas path temp at a steady 850ish degrees F about 7 inches up the flue, show that the draft still at 0.15, greater than the max recommended by Pacific Energy of 0.10...

• davidmsem
• Replies: 129
• Forum: Pacific Energy

 

[BKVP]

OP, is "downstairs" a basement? If it is, how will combustion air be made available for the insert?

To your question about burn times:

The SC25 and AF25 inserts are trapezoid in shape. This was done to maximize the amount of FBV. There are many other inserts that follow that same concept. In recent meetings with EPA to discuss FBV, industry was asked "do users have fuel of varying lengths in order to get as much fuel into the stove as possible?"

When you address burn times, there are those that consider a full load 3-4 pieces of wood. Then there are those (like we've had laughs about here) that play wood stove Tetris. Being in PA, you will have, hopefully, the benefit of good quality hardwoods. With higher density, your input of Btu's will be higher that say someone burning softwoods, like pine. Total Btu input divided by burn rate = burn time (=/- a bit for appliance efficiency). Ask the local dealer his or her experience.

To really get lots of heat into your home, you could also consider an insert that sits partially onto the hearth. We make the PI289 and KUMA and others also make what is termed a hearth heater. No only are they much better a radiating heat into the living space, but they will do a better job than a flush insert in the event of loss of power. Ours and other also have the benefit of a square or rectangular firebox. This would translate to a opportunity to load wood pieces all the same length and maximize FBV use.

Inserts are highly dependent upon fans to project warmer air further into the home.. The two BK's you mentioned do have dual fans and move a lot of air, the PI29 has a single fan, moves less air. All inserts that I know of can run without fans in the event of power outages.

None of the flush inserts would avail them selves to a kettle to warm food or add a steamer, whereas a hearth heater may.

Food for thought.....

BKVP

 

[TheAdmiralBurns]

BPVP:

Thanks for the feedback. The "downstairs" is the ground floor. We do have a basement as well, temps are very stable down there.

I like the idea of a hearth heater and your statements make perfect sense, so thanks for putting it out there. That said, the wife acceptance factor (WAF) was MUCH higher on the Ashford 25...in brown enamel. In this case, aesthetics matter.

Your guess is right on the hardwoods, I have several acres worth of hardwood just begging to be cut and split.

Do you have any comments on the need (or lack thereof) for a key damper?

 

[BKVP]

BPVP:

Thanks for the feedback. The "downstairs" is the ground floor. We do have a basement as well, temps are very stable down there.

I like the idea of a hearth heater and your statements make perfect sense, so thanks for putting it out there. That said, the wife acceptance factor (WAF) was MUCH higher on the Ashford 25...in brown enamel. In this case, aesthetics matter.

Your guess is right on the hardwoods, I have several acres worth of hardwood just begging to be cut and split.

Do you have any comments on the need (or lack thereof) for a key damper?

If you follow my posts, I am consistent in responding to questions surrounding dampers of any sort.

Wood heaters are to be installed and operated "as tested" and "according to the Owner's Manual" per Federal regulations. We are being read by regulators.

I will say that there are thousands of our products installed on long chimney systems. Long being 30+ feet.

I'm fairly confident that in most instances our thermostat can control the draft often associated with long chimneys.

The complication with our units, strictly due to higher efficiencies is accumulation in the top most part of the chimney and cap. This requires regular maintenance or sweeping of the chimney. This can be costly and inconvenient at times.

Units that are less efficient have higher stack temperatures are therefore are most likely less prone to accumulation at the furthest end of the stack; all variables be equal.

Lots to consider and I'll advocate for plenty of consideration and review before making a decision.

More food for thought.

BKVP

 

[Dieselhead]

On reload I get into the .20s on my permanently mounted manometer therefore I run a key damper until stack temps (which influence draft) get under control. My stack is 25’.

 

[kborndale]

If I had a chimney that was over 25' I would definitely have a key damper. They are inexpensive and I'd rather be safe than sorry. Nothing worse than watching your stove hit 800 and continue to climb while there is nothing you can do about it.