Looking at small wood stoves

[sparks]

Hi,
I'm building a new small home (32'x20 with 10' walls and cathedral ceilings - with an open half loft.) So 640 to 900sf depending on how you count it. Ridge to floor will be about 20'. We'll have ceiling fans handing from the ridge. It will be well insulated. I'm in North East GA so the temperatures will be mild (it will hit 70 today with a low of 40).

We want to be able to see the fire and need an EPA certified stove. We have 60 acres of hardwood and I'm overweight - so wood is a good choice for us.

I'm worried about getting too much stove. We've looked at the Aspen 1920. It's probably sized the best, but I read here about declining quality and warranty problems. We also considered the Jotul F100 and the Hearthstone Tribute.

I read here that you should burn hot to burn cleanly. Could I burn partial loads and still get hot enough to be efficient, or do I need full loads? What do you do in mild weather? We'll also have backup electric - so we could use that to temper things.

Any thoughts?

 

[branchburner]

You might consider a stove with a catalytic combustor - something like a Woodstock Keystone. That will let you burn more efficiently at lower stove temps.

 

[begreen]

I second the notion of the Keystone or Palladian. A small catalytic stove will run at lower temps, longer. With the combination of good insulation, small size and the loft, unless it's cold outside, it will be a challenge to not overheat. Lofts frequently get overheated, especially if they are wide open to the downstairs.

Ceiling fans will help, as will designing the loft so that it can be closed off with windows or sliders to regulate heat rising from below.

 

[Fsappo]

Hi,
I'm building a new small home (32'x20 with 10' walls and cathedral ceilings - with an open half loft.) So 640 to 900sf depending on how you count it. Ridge to floor will be about 20'. We'll have ceiling fans handing from the ridge. It will be well insulated. I'm in North East GA so the temperatures will be mild (it will hit 70 today with a low of 40).

We want to be able to see the fire and need an EPA certified stove. We have 60 acres of hardwood and I'm overweight - so wood is a good choice for us.

I'm worried about getting too much stove. We've looked at the Aspen 1920. It's probably sized the best, but I read here about declining quality and warranty problems. We also considered the Jotul F100 and the Hearthstone Tribute.

I read here that you should burn hot to burn cleanly. Could I burn partial loads and still get hot enough to be efficient, or do I need full loads? What do you do in mild weather? We'll also have backup electric - so we could use that to temper things.

Any thoughts?

My first thought is, if you want to see a fire, a non cat stove will (in my humble and often wrong opinion) give you a prettier fire to look at. Also, those stoves you mentioned are really toy stoves, more like 1 room heaters. I would shoot for something with a 2-2.5 cubic foot firebox. You'll get your overnight burns. Also, if it got a little warm in there, just turn the ceiling fans off.

Personally, I havent been a fan of the Vermont Castings line since they started being bought and sold like penny stocks..agin, just my opinion.

In the Jotul, I would look at the Castine as a minimum. Can stretch an overnight burn, and it has a nice big glass.
Other suggestions based on experience:
Quad 3100
Hearthstone Heritage
Regency large cast stove
Regency s2400
Enerzone 2.3

 

[sparks]

In the Jotul, I would look at the Castine as a minimum. Can stretch an overnight burn, and it has a nice big glass.
Other suggestions based on experience:
Quad 3100
Hearthstone Heritage
Regency large cast stove
Regency s2400
Enerzone 2.3

Maybe I'm putting too much faith in the sq listed for these stoves. Are the sq figures in the nice glossy brochures that far off? Or does my cathedral ceiling really change the dynamic?

Thanks

 

[Fsappo]

In the Jotul, I would look at the Castine as a minimum. Can stretch an overnight burn, and it has a nice big glass.
Other suggestions based on experience:
Quad 3100
Hearthstone Heritage
Regency large cast stove
Regency s2400
Enerzone 2.3

Maybe I'm putting too much faith in the sq listed for these stoves. Are the sq figures in the nice glossy brochures that far off? Or does my cathedral ceiling really change the dynamic?

Thanks

Both, really. You need to consider the ceiling and when I sell a stove I do it based off real life experience and NOT off of the brochures. Another good guide for a consumer is to look at the high and low heating claims on a brochure (shiny or not) and figure in the middle of those two number for the comfortable heat rating of the stove.

 

[begreen]

If looking at non-cat I agree with the Jotul F400 as prolly the biggest stove that will work comfortably. It is 1.5 cu ft and can run over a moderate range of temps, has a nice fireview and is well-made.

But at the heart of matter, there's a bit of difference in heating a tightly insulated, 600-900 sq ft home in GA vs NY, no?

 

[firefighterjake]

I agree with Franks . . .

a) you really need to take those figures the brochures and websites list with a grain of salt since they're figured in a sterile setting and not based on everyone's individual needs . . . for example a 1875 Maine farmhouse with windows from the 1970s and little to no insulation would be quite different from a new home built in your area with super insulated windows, walls, attic, etc. . . . even if they were the same square footage.

b) and then you have to figure in the design of the house -- open vs. closed (to faciliate air flow), cathedral ceilings, location of stove installation, etc. In the case of the cathedral ceiling quite a bit of the heat will radiate to the ceiling . . . ceiling fans will definitely help . . . but again, cathedral ceilings do change the dynamics.

 

[Fsappo]

If looking at non-cat I agree with the Jotul F400 as prolly the biggest stove that will work comfortably. It is 1.5 cu ft and can run over a moderate range of temps, has a nice fireview and is well-made.

But at the heart of matter, there's a bit of difference in heating a heavily insulated, 600-900 sq ft home in GA vs NY, no?

There is a difference, but I would still go for the larger stove. Can always burn less logs when you in the room enjoying it. When your in bed for the night, stoke it up for the long burn and if that room gets a little warm, who cares, you'll be in the bedroom

 

[sparks]

There is a difference, but I would still go for the larger stove. Can always burn less logs when you in the room enjoying it. When your in bed for the night, stoke it up for the long burn and if that room gets a little warm, who cares, you'll be in the bedroom

I guess that's part of the original question - It's OK to burn just a few logs in a bigger stove or do I need to fill it to be efficient (not worried about volume of wood as much as just keeping the stove pipe clean)?

 

[firefighterjake]

There is a difference, but I would still go for the larger stove. Can always burn less logs when you in the room enjoying it. When your in bed for the night, stoke it up for the long burn and if that room gets a little warm, who cares, you'll be in the bedroom

I guess that's part of the original question - It's OK to burn just a few logs in a bigger stove or do I need to fill it to be efficient (not worried about volume of wood as much as just keeping the stove pipe clean)?

I would say sure . . . it's OK to burn a few logs in a larger stove. Heck, I kind of do that already in early Fall and late Spring. Instead of loading the stove to the gills with the good wood, I'll put in the lower BTU wood or only put in a few smaller pieces . . . I'll still burn 'er hot and efficiently, but the length of burn and amount of BTUs is not so high that it will roast me out of the house.

 

[Fsappo]

Sure, thats fine to do. A smaller hot fire wont give you any trouble with performance

 

[jeffee]

Important question for you: Is the bedroom in the loft? If so, pay close attention to BeGreen's post!! Please!!

 

[begreen]

There is a difference, but I would still go for the larger stove. Can always burn less logs when you in the room enjoying it. When your in bed for the night, stoke it up for the long burn and if that room gets a little warm, who cares, you'll be in the bedroom

I guess that's part of the original question - It's OK to burn just a few logs in a bigger stove or do I need to fill it to be efficient (not worried about volume of wood as much as just keeping the stove pipe clean)?

Problem is that in GA, most burning is like fall/spring burning up north. For shoulder season burning, the key is to burn hot, short fires for the cleanest burn. Otherwise it kind of defeats the reason for having an EPA stove in the first place.

If the stove is too big, there's a chance that either the stove never comes up to temp or that the space will get too hot before or while the stove is at secondary ignition. For example, the F400 likes to be up to about 400 deg for good secondary burn. At much lower temps, you can still have a pretty fire, but a lot of unburnt gases are going up the flue. No stove is perfect for all conditions, but it's good to size the stove for the average heating requirements. In Syracuse, dead of winter temps might average around 20-25. In Atlanta I think the ave. January temp is about 50?

 

[sparks]

Yes. Average high in ATL in Jan is about 50 and average low is above 32.

The kids are going to sleep in the loft and we will be under them. My wife has been pushing for enclosing the loft - this may be more ammunition for her. The basic layout would be...
-stove almost centered on the north wall (a 20ft wall). This is the "main" room - kitchen/eating area/living room. Our bedroom would be on the south end of the house (about 16ft of the N->S direction).

 

[sparks]

BTW - we are required by code to have an EPA approved stove here (we are also required to have some other means of heating). I wondered if I could get the tax credit if I get the Certificate of Occupancy, move in, and then add the stove. Anyone know what the "existing home" really means? It would not be in the spirit of the law, but...

 

[begreen]

Wise lady. If getting a Jotul, and the budget allows, I can strongly recommend getting it in the blue-black enamel. Your wife will love that the stove stays looking brand new year after year.

IMO, if you are living in the house for one week and find it too cold, then go out and get a stove, I don't see how that is contrary to the spirit of the law.

 

[DBoon]

It's hard for me to imagine that a 1.5 to 1.6 cubic foot stove isn't plenty for you. Georgia is quite a bit warmer than upstate New York, and when you run the stove in the shoulder season, you'll want a smaller firebox to run more efficiently. My small stove heats a lot of area on a pretty cold day even in upstate NY. A 2+ cubic foot firebox seems like way overkill for your climate and house size unless:

- you plan on burning softwoods
- you expect overnight burns

If I had an open floor plan and didn't put my stove in the fireplace recess, I would have consider a catalytic stove also. I second the suggestion to check those out.

 

[branchburner]

Problem is that in GA, most burning is like fall/spring burning up north. For shoulder season burning, the key is to burn hot, short fires for the cleanest burn. Otherwise it kind of defeats the reason for having an EPA stove in the first place.

No stove is perfect for all conditions, but it's good to size the stove for the average heating requirements. In Syracuse, dead of winter temps might average around 20-25. In Atlanta I think the ave. January temp is about 50?

Given your climate and house size, I think BG is right on. My stove is twice what I need for this time of year in NH, and that's with a larger, draftier house. It's going to be real easy for you to end up with more stove than you want or need. I understand Frank's view of the Keystone as a "toy" stove, but that's all you'll need to keep the place warm, a 1.5 cu ft firebox. Consider a cat stove, especially if the firebox is 2 cu ft or more. It's going to give you more control.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Another thing to consider is storing the heat in thermal mass. Check out the soapstone stove along with the cast iron.

Matt

 

[sparks]

I spoke with a local dealer. He indicated that cat stoves would not be a good idea for our climate because we wouldn't burn it continually - we stop and start it a lot. Does that make sense?

We've also added the Napoleon 1100C to our list we're looking at and a Century FW247001 from Northern Tool (it's comparatively inexpensive).

 

[wendell]

For what you are looking to do, check out the Morso 3450. A great stove and will give you just what you need. A smaller firebox but the soapstone will continue to give off heat until you need to light it again.

I also can't argue with a smaller Woodstock for your heating requirements but I think you will need to have it turned down so often that you aren't going to get the ambiance you are looking for.

 

[albertj03]

I have a non-cat CFM FW240007 which has a small firebox of (I think) 1.25 cubic ft. I have this stove in my basement and it heats the basement plus first floor of my two floor (plus basement) colonial in Maine. The house is 2,550 sqft including the basement. This small stove heats the basement and first floor about 1,700 sqft. Of course I have to reload fairly frequently and run the stove fairly hot when it's really cold out. As far as overnight burns go, usually I'll load up the stove before I go to bed and cut the air way down. When I go downstairs to the first floor in the morning it will be around 68 and there will be a few small hot coals left in the firebox. I wouldn't want it to be my only heat source (also have an oil furnace) but it works well.

I think a small stove would work well for you in your situation as long as you don't mind messing with it more often. You can't expect to just "toss" some wood in the stove with these small ones because with such a limited space you need to be sure you've got your wood positioned well for optimal burning. If you just put it in there without making sure there is good airflow in the box your wood may not catch well and smolder. Usually I'll create either one channel in the middle of the coals or two channels one on each side for air to flow beneath and inbetween the wood. This works well for me.

If I were buying a stove for my main living area I would buy something nicer than my FW240007 just due to the fit and finish not being the best (not that it's that bad) but I would want something a little nicer looking.

 

[Nic36]

Sparks, I can attest to the fact that a 1.5 cubic feet stove should be more than adequate for your home. I live in the same climate range as you in north Alabama. I have almost the same square foot house-about 850 square feet as best I can calculate. Your post almost sounds like me when I was stove searching. Some I initially considered was a Jotul F3CB, Vermont Castings Aspen/Intrepid, Hearthstone Tribute and a Woodstock soapstone stove. I decided against the soapstone stoves early on because I wouldn't be able to maximize the use of the stove like I would in a more northern climate. I was also scared of a soapstone stove cracking. I decided against the Vermont Castings stoves due to their reputation and reviews. Of all those, I really wanted a Jotul F3CB, but there just weren't any dealers close to me.

In the end, I went with a Pacific Energy (PE) stove and ordered it from Chimneysweeponline. There were a few reasons for my decision. But, it was mostly due to all the positive comments about PE stoves on this forum. I have been very happy with it. It looks good, you can see the fire and it performs flawlessly. The only thing I don't like is the ash collection system, which I simply don't use.

Anyway, I'm not plugging PE stoves, but I just wanted to let you know that a 1.5 cubic feet stove in your climate should heat your home quite well.

 

[tutu_sue]

Somewhere along the line, I heard that with high ceilings you need to calculate the cubic feet of space so you can compare apples to apples. I believe the manufacturers use a default ceiling height of 8 feet.