Likes/dislikes with my insert (Sirocco 25)

[Sitka]

I have had my Sirocco 25 installed for two half seasons so far. I don't use wood as a primary heating source for my house, but I enjoying running it occasionally, sometimes for a few days at a time when the weather is colder (PNW mild climate, typically 30-45°F outside when I'm burning). I am using red oak that is seasoned for almost 3 years at this point. I also have some miscellaneous other firewood that I'm burning, including softwoods.

Likes

• I like the heat output and blower
• I like that I can turn it down to a fairly low level
• I like the clean look
• I like that there's no visible smoke outside once the cat is engaged

Dislikes

• I dislike how often I have to load it (every 2-4 hours)
• I dislike how smoky my house gets every time I load it
• I dislike how the insert becomes unstable and rocks (~1/2" of play, front/back pitch) when it heats up (maybe the bottom is bowing down as the metal expands?)

Suboptimal factors that I could change

• Lack of insulation or block-off plate in my fireplace (chimney located in outside wall of house). I didn't hear about these until after my installer was done. He did use an insulated stove pipe as recommended.
• Wood too big: some pieces are long enough that they barely fit in the stove at an angle. I got the oak for free from a tree service and it was in massive pieces. I had to rent a hydraulic log splitter to cut it down but some of the pieces are close to 2' long.

Questions

1. Will I have much better results if I spend hours cutting down all my firewood to 12-16" pieces and pack the firebox much more tightly? I think I know the answer.
2. Will I be able to run the insert at low output even if it's jam packed?
3. What else can I do to get better results?

Finally, a mild rant/question: if a $700 Traeger pellet grill can automatically control temperature with a thermostat and fan, why can't a $4000 insert/stove do the same? I understand that a wood stove can't feed itself fuel like a pellet grill, but it seems like I shouldn't have to constantly be checking the cat temp and adjusting it, especially under optimal conditions where it should have no problem running half a day or more on one load of wood. A simple electronic system with thermostat/rheostat that monitors cat temp and adjusts airflow and fan speed wouldn't cost that much and would save a lot of hassle. Throw in a little motor or solenoid-based system to automatically open and close the bypass to prevent cat damage if the fire gets too cold.... Why is that too much to ask in a modern stove/insert? If I'm missing something, please educate me.

 

[begreen]

This could be weak draft. Often this can be due to a clogged screen on the cap. Is there one present and if so, when was it last cleaned?

How tall is the liner on the insert? If a nearby window is opened an inch, does the fire improve and the smoke spillage stop? Is the liner securely attached to the stove with an appliance adapter?

The firebox should be fine fully loaded. How much wood is being loaded at a time?

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

I dislike how often I have to load it (every 2-4 hours)

Show us a picture of your stove on a normal load. A sirocco should be doing 12-20 hours easy. You may be operating the stove incorrectly.

 

[Sitka]

This could be weak draft. How tall is the liner on the insert? If a nearby window is opened an inch, does the fire improve and the smoke spillage stop?

The firebox should be fine fully loaded. How much wood is being loaded at a time?

The liner is a straight shot up the chimney from the first floor of a 1.5 story house. I think it's probably 20-25'.

The house is not particularly well sealed, but I have been opening a window while starting a fire. Not when loading. I will try that but I don't think draft is the issue.

 

[Sitka]

Show us a picture of your stove on a normal load. A sirocco should be doing 12-20 hours easy. You may be operating the stove incorrectly.

Usually 3-4 large logs is all I can fit, transversely because they're long.

 

[crstrode]

My Sirocco insert experience is different than yours!

Last nite, about midnight, I loaded about a 2/3 load of pine atop a very good bed of coals . I set the thermostat to just a bit above minimum so there was only an occasional puff of flame, with the cat glowing red. This morning, after shoveling off two decks, about 100 feet of sidewalk, feeding the dog, and making coffee, I came down to check the Sirocco insert. At 11:30 am it was still blowing hot air and there was a hot bed of coals. I tossed in a few 4-inch ponderosa pine splits, and in 5 minutes, the fire was blazing. Kindling is usually not needed except when I intentionally let things cool down to remove ashes.

My chimney is around 25 feet with 6-inch liner and an un-screened cap. Elevation here is 2500 feet. The Sirocco insert burns well and operates very nicely with no smoke spillage if I follow the operating instructions to the letter.

I figured installation of a 350-lb appliance was best left to the local fireplace shop, so installation was per the manufacturer's recommendations to the letter. As a result, it does not move around no-matter-what, as if Homer Simpson installed it.

 

[Sitka]

My Sirocco insert experience is different than yours!

Last nite, about midnight, I loaded about a 2/3 load of pine atop a very good bed of coals . I set the thermostat to just a bit above minimum so there was only an occasional puff of flame, with the cat glowing red. This morning, after shoveling off two decks, about 100 feet of sidewalk, feeding the dog, and making coffee, I came down to check the Sirocco insert. At 11:30 am it was still blowing hot air and there was a hot bed of coals. I tossed in a few 4-inch ponderosa pine splits, and in 5 minutes, the fire was blazing. Kindling is usually not needed except when I intentionally let things cool down to remove ashes.

My chimney is around 25 feet with 6-inch liner and an un-screened cap. Elevation here is 2500 feet. The Sirocco insert burns well and operates very nicely with no smoke spillage if I follow the operating instructions to the letter.

I figured installation of a 350-lb appliance was best left to the local fireplace shop. Installation was per the manufacturer's recommendations to the letter. As a result, it does not move around no-matter-what, as if Homer Simpson installed it.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It's amazing to me that you're getting the cat to stay in the red zone for 12 hours with only a 2/3 load of softwood. I assume you had the blower pretty low?

If I turn the thermostat down more than halfway it often drops out of the red zone.

 

[crstrode]

Cut your wood to the manufacturer's suggested length, season it to the manufacturer's suggested moisture content, and load it per the manufacturer's suggestions.

My blower is usually set at about 1/2 speed, and the cat face is brushed gently now and then.

 

[begreen]

The draft should be ok with that amount of liner unless something has compromised it. Has the cat been cleaned?

PS: It's remarkable to hear about red oak being burned in the Pac NW. That's an unusual find.

 

[Sitka]

The draft should be ok with that amount of liner unless something has compromised it. Has the cat been cleaned?

PS: It's remarkable to hear about red oak being burned in the Pac NW. That's an unusual find.

I have only had about a dozen fires since it was installed. The cat looks intact and normal when it's glowing red but I can inspect it more closely later.

Not unusual here; one of the benefits of living in a city is free hardwood (check out getchipdrop.com). Most of the urban/suburban trees Northwest cities are eastern trees! Portland has lots of eastern oaks and maples, including 9 specimens of red oak designated as heritage trees (some over 100' tall). Also numerous very tall American elms that have escaped Dutch elm disease so far.

 

[begreen]

I haven't seen oak firewood locally in the Seattle area, but we do have a Dutch elm growing in the yard.

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

Cut your wood to the manufacturer's suggested length, season it to the manufacturer's suggested moisture content, and load it per the manufacturer's suggestions.

My blower is usually set at about 1/2 speed, and the cat face is brushed gently now and then.

This

 

[stoveliker]

It is puzzling that the cat drops out of the active zone at 1/2 tstat setting.

Are you sure the bypass opens and closes properly?


And it is puzzling that smoke rolls out with flue that tall and a leaky-ish house.

What is your elevation?

Regarding the rant, this is a stove that actually regulated heat output. Contrary to most other stoves.
You should not need to adjust it. (I don't).
If you adjust it because you're otherwise falling out of the active cat range, then you're running too close to that edge of the parameter space for your set up and you should run a bit higher. (Though it is puzzling that that is the case as from here nothing seem wrong, if all parts are functioning as designed.)

 

[crstrode]

It is puzzling that the cat drops out of the active zone at 1/2 tstat setting.

Are you sure the bypass opens and closes properly?


And it is puzzling that smoke rolls out with flue that tall and a leaky-ish house.

What is your elevation?

Regarding the rant, this is a stove that actually regulated heat output. Contrary to most other stoves.
You should not need to adjust it. (I don't).
If you adjust it because you're otherwise falling out of the active cat range, then you're running too close to that edge of the parameter space for your set up and you should run a bit higher. (Though it is puzzling that that is the case as from here nothing seem wrong, if all parts are functioning as designed.)

He is burning small loads of wet oak logs, not splits.

 

[stoveliker]

He is burning small loads of wet oak logs, not splits.

I don't know that. The symptoms could be consistent with wet wood.
But some people call splits logs (more in Europe than here but still), and his wood is 3 years old.

The question then to the OP is:
Is the wood split? (It doesn't dry well when not split)
And how was the wood stored those three years?

 

[Sitka]

He is burning small loads of wet oak logs, not splits.

Wrong. The wood is not wet, and I'm not burning whole logs. But see below.

I don't know that. The symptoms could be consistent with wet wood.
But some people call splits logs (more in Europe than here but still), and his wood is 3 years old.

The question then to the OP is:
Is the wood split? (It doesn't dry well when not split)
And how was the wood stored those three years?

The wood is currently stored in a lean-to protected from rain, with ample airflow. Previously I had stored it under tarps during the wet winters, and in the open during our dry summers. Also, I just checked and it was acutally April 2021 that I split it, so it's been almost 4 years since it was split.

However, as I mentioned above, the pieces may be just too big. Oak is very dense and it's possible that the moisture content is still too high because of the large size of many of the splits (length and width). And having to load a long piece diagonally doesn't allow the firebox to be packed very full.

It was a large oak and some of the rounds were too big to easily cut with my 14" chainsaw, so I left them long. See photos. I'll burn the smaller pieces for now, and go and cut down/split the larger pieces and let them season for till next season. This way I'll be able to burn most of them in NS rather than EW orientation in the insert.

 

[stoveliker]

Interesting; those pieces don't look large to me.
I'm burning oak right now that is 17.5" long, with some splits 6x6" and some slabs 10" x 3". Much more massive - at least that is the way it seems to me from your pics.

Your storage seems good.
I would expect the wood to be good. If you have a moisture meter, get a split up to room temperature, then resplit it, and measure with the pins parallel to the grain and deeply pushed into the wood. If you dont' have one, it may be a useful investment of $30. I have the MMD4E, available I think at the orange store and Amazon for sure. The BKs do like dry wood!

(The oak in Cascadia looks very different from the oak we have here.)

 

[begreen]

There are many different species of oak. We have what I think is a Live Oak in our yard which is normally found on the mid-California coast and unlikely to show up in the east.

 

[Sitka]

Interesting; those pieces don't look large to me.
I'm burning oak right now that is 17.5" long, with some splits 6x6" and some slabs 10" x 3". Much more massive - at least that is the way it seems to me from your pics.

Your storage seems good.
I would expect the wood to be good. If you have a moisture meter, get a split up to room temperature, then resplit it, and measure with the pins parallel to the grain and deeply pushed into the wood. If you dont' have one, it may be a useful investment of $30. I have the MMD4E, available I think at the orange store and Amazon for sure. The BKs do like dry wood!

(The oak in Cascadia looks very different from the oak we have here.)

Thanks, a moisture measurement would be useful. Many of the pieces are pretty "normal" in size, under 18", but many are in the 20-26" range. I'll cut those in half when I have a chance.

I'm not certain exactly what species of oak it is since I never saw the live tree, but it could be an Oregon white oak (Quercus garryana), which is denser than northern red oak and most of the eastern oaks. It is extremely heavy wood.

Most of our trees get covered in moss and even epiphytic ferns due to the 6 months of constant moisture. The moss hangs out dormant in our dry, low-humidity summers and turns bright green again when the rains come back.

 

[stoveliker]

Regarding the moisture meter, just to be sure, don't measure on a cut end but in a split face.

 

[begreen]

I just remembered that Oregon white oak and Gary Oak are more common here. There's also California black oak.

 

[Garfong]

I’m on my second year with the Sirocco 25. First year I had an assortment of different lengths of wood and that just made it difficult to pack the stove out. It’s much easier if they’re all around 16” loading north-south. We use a kindling cracker to fill a large basket with smaller pieces to fill voids after the larger pieces are loaded. That helps with getting better burn times. We usually don’t go over 8 hours between reloads though.

 

[spudman99]

Here are my thoughts although I am less experienced than others (Yr 4 on a princess insert)

First thought is draft problems. If you are getting smoke rollback during reloads, then there is a draft issue. Not enough heat remaining in the box to create upward draft? You seem pretty versed in this stove, perhaps check the chimney cap with binoculars to see if there is a blockage. Without a manometer it is hard to measure draft reliably. Even partial blockage can slow down draft to create this condition. I never get smoke rollback, I open the bypass for at least 5 min to cool down the cat. Then open door and there is plenty of updraft.

Secondly, I am wondering if your cat gauge is out of calibration. Mine was for the first 2 years leading me to more frequent reloads. Right now I can barely see the cat through the black door, and it may not be glowing but I am well within the active zone. I have a cheap stove top thermometer to just show me discharge temp. Has no use in proper operation. I can however see when my box is not putting out hot temps but it at least gives me some idea of the performance and I can decide if I want to turn up the thermostat or not. Below is a link to a good thread on calibration.

T

Thread 'Calibrating the thermometer gauge'

Nov 1, 2024

Hello. I'm at the beginning of burning season and trying to make sure my thermometer gauge is correctly calibrated for our Ashford 30. Most of the photos I've seen here are with a different gauge than what I have (mine is about 1 year old). At room temp the needle is below the Inactive zone a small amount, photo below:

Should I be adjusting it so the needle is at the bottom of the Inactive zone, or leave it as-is?

Thank you very much!

• tsh2002
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Blaze King

Finally, one cannot discount the wood moisture. I bet that over 50% of the issues on this (an any woodstove) are related to moisture. Your wood is probably fine based on your description, but why not rule it out. $40 for a moisture meter, and make sure the split is at room temps (at least 1 day inside to fully warm up) to check. This way you rule out 1 factor. I use a regular chop saw with a cheap blade to shorten my splits from 20" to 16" to easily fit into the box on a N-S stack.

Good luck and report back. You should get at least 10 hour burns without issue.

 

[Sitka]

Here are my thoughts although I am less experienced than others (Yr 4 on a princess insert)

First thought is draft problems. If you are getting smoke rollback during reloads, then there is a draft issue. Not enough heat remaining in the box to create upward draft? You seem pretty versed in this stove, perhaps check the chimney cap with binoculars to see if there is a blockage. Without a manometer it is hard to measure draft reliably. Even partial blockage can slow down draft to create this condition. I never get smoke rollback, I open the bypass for at least 5 min to cool down the cat. Then open door and there is plenty of updraft.

Secondly, I am wondering if your cat gauge is out of calibration. Mine was for the first 2 years leading me to more frequent reloads. Right now I can barely see the cat through the black door, and it may not be glowing but I am well within the active zone. I have a cheap stove top thermometer to just show me discharge temp. Has no use in proper operation. I can however see when my box is not putting out hot temps but it at least gives me some idea of the performance and I can decide if I want to turn up the thermostat or not. Below is a link to a good thread on calibration.

T

Thread 'Calibrating the thermometer gauge'

Nov 1, 2024

Hello. I'm at the beginning of burning season and trying to make sure my thermometer gauge is correctly calibrated for our Ashford 30. Most of the photos I've seen here are with a different gauge than what I have (mine is about 1 year old). At room temp the needle is below the Inactive zone a small amount, photo below:

Should I be adjusting it so the needle is at the bottom of the Inactive zone, or leave it as-is?

Thank you very much!

• tsh2002
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Blaze King

Finally, one cannot discount the wood moisture. I bet that over 50% of the issues on this (an any woodstove) are related to moisture. Your wood is probably fine based on your description, but why not rule it out. $40 for a moisture meter, and make sure the split is at room temps (at least 1 day inside to fully warm up) to check. This way you rule out 1 factor. I use a regular chop saw with a cheap blade to shorten my splits from 20" to 16" to easily fit into the box on a N-S stack.

Good luck and report back. You should get at least 10 hour burns without issue.

Thanks! Calibration could be an issue. I have never seen it stay in the active temp zone longer than about 4 hours. My Sirocco manual says of the catalytic thermometer, "for calibration instructions refer to the MAINTENANCE section." But in the maintenance section, there is no mention of it. Great.

As someone commented above, following the operating instructions to the letter seems important. Unfortunately, they're just not that clear on some things.

For example, is it OK to leave the cat engaged overnight? As above, there's no way my fires will stay in the active zone overnight. When I wake up, the thermometer always reads inactive. So either I potentially damage the cat by running it too low before I wake up, or I lose the benefit of a low-slow clean burn overnight if I open the bypass door before bed.

Another example: the instructions for lighting the fire state that once the fire is well established, "gradually turn the thermostat down to the desired heat output setting." There is no guidance on what "gradually" means. Over a period of 5 seconds? 10 seconds? 1 minute? 10 minutes? 30 minutes? All at once, or little by little with time in between?

I don't think there's a major draft issue. I see plenty of smoke rolling out of the chimney when the bypass is open. When the loading door is cracked open, the draft is very visible in the flames. But when I open the door wide enough to get wood in, smoke tends to come out. I may have a more sensitive nose than some. But then the whole house smells like smoke for hours.

I think having smaller wood will help the smoke issue while reloading. First, it will allow me to pack the firebox fuller to begin with, so reloading will be less frequent. Second, wood should be drier and burn hotter. Third, when I do reload, I won't have to work so hard to fit the pieces in the firebox, so the door won't be open as long.

If anyone has recommended videos demonstrating the whole process on a Blaze King stove/insert, let me know. Sometimes one or two little tricks can make a huge difference.

 

[stoveliker]

Smoke rolling out of the door when the bypass is open indicates poor draft.

If the stove burns out, it's not a problem that the cat gets inactive.

Dial down time depends on fuel dryness. To start, 30 minutes, 4 steps 8 mins apart.