That's what I was thinking. I run my smoke dragon showing 350-400F 18" up the single wall, and it has no creosote issues.
Learning the new Englander Madison
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Sorry it took me so long to reply.
I have 19' of pipe from the top of the stove to the cap. It drafts well but i stil get some back puffing if i open the door quickly or the fire is just getting started. I use the thermo on top of the stove. I dont have a flue thermo. My stove has been running great this season. But ive tried really hard to have dry wood. Are you checking the wood on the face of a fresh split
I have 19' of pipe from the top of the stove to the cap. It drafts well but i stil get some back puffing if i open the door quickly or the fire is just getting started. I use the thermo on top of the stove. I dont have a flue thermo. My stove has been running great this season. But ive tried really hard to have dry wood. Are you checking the wood on the face of a fresh split
I always get a back puff if I open the door quickly. I don't think that's avoidable - just the nature of the design. Never get back puffing if the door is barely cracked while starting up... if I ever do I crack open the basement sliding glass door for a bit.
Learned an important lesson last night - The Madison is rated for 35lbs of wood, don't try to add more than that. 40lb of wood briquettes has it burning dirty (visible smoke plumes out the chimney) and holy HELL was that burning hot...
I guess maybe you have to leave enough room at the top for the secondary burn to work properly?
Yeah having wood too close to the baffles is bad for clean burning and control. I might be able to fit 2 of those bundles in there laid flat instead of on their sides but I'll have to see. That'd give another inch or so clearance. It'd just be nice to be able to toss 2 20lb bundles into the stove for a robust, all-night-long burn that'll carry us through <10F nights... minimal bother & fuss with maximal punch.
The reason i think i was having trouble to start with is i was transioning from a smoke dragon and marginal wood. In order to get my old stove to burn i would stack the wood really loosely. When i first started with the Madison i was doing the same thing and it was allowing the wood to really get going. But i also learned later that it was ok for the stove to burn up to 800f briefly. But now it rarely gets to 750f. It likes to get up to between 650 and 700 tho. But really liking the Madison this season. You might say were finally speaking the same language.
Just want to add for kicks, I got the AC-30 blower this week for my Madison, installed it today. When you first turn the rheostat on (past the off click) it's on high so it's loud... maybe as loud as the old AC-16 was on high, but it seems to blow more air through the heat shield vents. Turn the rheostat fully clockwise and it's on "low" - beyond the motor hum, it's pretty quiet and you still feel air pushing through those vents. Nice upgrade. Cost $177 or so shipped from ESW.
resurrecting an old thread, but I'm looking for some help with a new ESW Madison I bought on Friday and installed over the weekend.
While most here are dealing with cold stoves I've got the exact opposite problem - can't keep the break in fires under 450*
On my 2nd break in burn this morning, and it's going about the same as the one last night. I was thinking that perhaps some ash in the bottom between the bricks and over the ash cover would help seal it up. Started the fire with 8-10 small 1x1 split pieces of oak, some cardboard under and it lit right off, left the door ajar and the fire caught and was able to close the door within 10 minutes or so.
Air handle pulled all the way out and not turned the 1/4 turn, I believe I have it as shut down as possible yet the IR temps show front left corner at 455, center at 555, and front right at 423.
Front door seal is tight, but I've yet to try to run a dollar bill around the entire gasket to be sure, that's next step after this fire burns out in an hour or 2. Has to be an air leak somewhere, and the fact that I can't kill the fire by pulling the air rod out all the way def has me concerned.
Read the instructions twice - did I miss something? Suggestions?
While most here are dealing with cold stoves I've got the exact opposite problem - can't keep the break in fires under 450*
On my 2nd break in burn this morning, and it's going about the same as the one last night. I was thinking that perhaps some ash in the bottom between the bricks and over the ash cover would help seal it up. Started the fire with 8-10 small 1x1 split pieces of oak, some cardboard under and it lit right off, left the door ajar and the fire caught and was able to close the door within 10 minutes or so.
Air handle pulled all the way out and not turned the 1/4 turn, I believe I have it as shut down as possible yet the IR temps show front left corner at 455, center at 555, and front right at 423.
Front door seal is tight, but I've yet to try to run a dollar bill around the entire gasket to be sure, that's next step after this fire burns out in an hour or 2. Has to be an air leak somewhere, and the fact that I can't kill the fire by pulling the air rod out all the way def has me concerned.
Read the instructions twice - did I miss something? Suggestions?
temps still holding steady, I'm at 289* about 18" up the stove pipe. Outdoor temp 42*
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just off the phone with Travis at England's tech line, my todo: confirm min of 15' of stove pipe length. My thinking about the damper rod turning on the AAS was backwards, that I want to have it twisted on most all times, so burn the next break in fire with the rod set to AAS. Take the backs off of it and have a look at the controls to help me understand how the stove functions after it cools later this morning.
This fire is done, house stinks of hot high temp paint curing lol. After using the Vermont Castings stove for so many years this new fangled device is sure different, but no doubt burns well. Prev stove was 47k BTU and heated the house well, this one at ~80k BTU should get the job done with less wood I hope
This fire is done, house stinks of hot high temp paint curing lol. After using the Vermont Castings stove for so many years this new fangled device is sure different, but no doubt burns well. Prev stove was 47k BTU and heated the house well, this one at ~80k BTU should get the job done with less wood I hope
Double check that door gasket. Mine was quite loose this year (starting 3rd year of burning) and now that it's tight, it feels much more controlled. I never did check it even when it was new and I vaguely recall during inferno full-firebox burns some flames that appeared to show up inside near the door gaskets...
Stacking firewood too high up in the firebox will cause it to burn out of control due to the unmetered secondary air from the burn tubes. I often do that intentionally (when the stove's cold) to get the stove rip roarin' hot. It should self-limit once the firewood burns down.
Taking off the back cover to inspect the AAS and airflow assembly will be a good idea if they have any concerns about that. It's not too hard but the most annoying part of the process IMO is putting the side shields back on after you've taken them off...
Stacking firewood too high up in the firebox will cause it to burn out of control due to the unmetered secondary air from the burn tubes. I often do that intentionally (when the stove's cold) to get the stove rip roarin' hot. It should self-limit once the firewood burns down.
Taking off the back cover to inspect the AAS and airflow assembly will be a good idea if they have any concerns about that. It's not too hard but the most annoying part of the process IMO is putting the side shields back on after you've taken them off...
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just threw another 5-6 1x1 pieces in it to cycle it again. on the list to do when it cools
I started it with a log cabin style stack this morning of 2 tiers of 3x3, reached nearly to the top. good to know
not so much concerns about function, but sometimes I'm a visual learner and if I can see how things flow then dots begin to connect for me.
3rd break burn in underway now that surface temps are back down to ~200*, all the windows in the house are open this time now that the sun is up
Definitely understand that, you'll be intrigued when you see how that thing works. The big rectangular thing in the middle of the stove's back is the secondary air inlet (look from underside to see the slots), the primary air is up top with its goofy setup, which sends the primary air through a rectangular duct through the stovetop where it gets super-preheated before entering the airwash manifold up front... FYI I had to remove my AAS actuator (think part of that happened from inside the stove, after removing the front burntube and baffles in a stone cold stove) and adjust/retighten its locking nut to get it to work right the first time. Hopefully they've improved the design since.
3rd burn repeat of the first 2, turning the AAS on had little to no impact even with the rod all the way out. Way too hot with a tiny load in it.
edyit
Minister of Fire
nothing wrong with those temps at all, thats just starting to get up to cruising temperature.
you can't kill the fire by pulling the air control all the way closed. you have unrestricted air that flows in from the secondary burn tubes and from the dog house air supply (in front of the door in the middle on the bottom) these stoves are actually designed to put off more heat with the air turned down, this is what gets the secondary burn system going, its kinda counter intuitive buts its how its designed to work, this is not the old style smoke dragon that you turned the air down and it starved it and smoldered making creosote.
edyit
Minister of Fire
460* left and right on the front, 550* on the center. Manual says that the break in burns should be managed at 300* in the front corners, I've found no way to effectively manage the temp down, with a small load of 1x1 oak, maybe 6 pieces on top of dying coals those temps are as low as I can get the stove. The guy on the support line at Englands said that those temps were too hot, "overfired"
That seems a bit high for six 1x1 kindling splits but I don't know. I usually just measure mine in the center of the stovetop midway to the flue exit. Anything over 550F I get nervous and pull the draft all the way out (and that DOES tame the fire, most of the time, after 5-10 minutes anyway, unless the fuel's up to the tubes). I also have their larger variable speed blower on the back of mine which I crank up when that happens.
edyit
Minister of Fire
i have the same stove, 50-shssw01, the break in fires on this model are mainly to cure the paint, so it stops off gassing in your house. i can tell you that i routinely get 550+ on the outside corners where the thermometers are
not trying to kill it, just manage the top temps. My past experience is that you do that via the damper rod above the door
that unrestricted air comes in from the bottom inlet on the back side of the stove and out the dog house, yes?
yea, all kinda new stuff to learn
So cutting to the chase - the manual says first 3 burns should not exceed 300* on the front L and R corners. I can't get the top temp under ~450* with only about 15-20% of the fire box loaded. Even with those temps the flue temp about 18" up the pipe hasn't gone much over 300, bottom is around 400*
So do I have a problem? if so is the problem with the stove? or is the problem me/operator error/operator ignorance, and needing to learn how this stove works/behaves. Vote now....
Sounds like there is some misinformation here as well as a learning curve. 1" sticks are going to ignite quickly with a hot fire. That is kindling. The temps you are reporting are far from overfiring, in spite of what the support person said. This is a steel stove. The breakin period is minimal and primarily to bake in the fresh paint on the stove. You can not completely cut off the air on any EPA stove. That would smolder the fire which these stoves are designed to prevent.
The Englander is going to run and burn differently than the Defiant. @spirilis was an early Madison owner and documented the AAS operation. This thread may be helpful.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/esw-madison-pics.146903/
The Englander is going to run and burn differently than the Defiant. @spirilis was an early Madison owner and documented the AAS operation. This thread may be helpful.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/esw-madison-pics.146903/
The doghouse is front center bottom of the stove, a little hole in the steel between the two firebricks at the door opening. If you pulled out the ash pan and shined a flashlight up you'd see a matching hole in the pedestal area supplying intake air to that doghouse.
Maybe build your fire towards the back of the stove? The flames will have further to travel before hitting the front of the stove... might run cooler on the stovetop (and give off more heat from the sides eventually)
Maybe build your fire towards the back of the stove? The flames will have further to travel before hitting the front of the stove... might run cooler on the stovetop (and give off more heat from the sides eventually)
edyit
Minister of Fire
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/dog-house-air-question.163981/#post-2201676
has pics of the doghouse and where it is 2nd or 3rd post in
has pics of the doghouse and where it is 2nd or 3rd post in
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