Kubota

[Sawset]

I can remember when a heater or radio was an option in a vehicle. I believe power door locks, seats etc. to be designed by the devil. I can remember pulling the lever and having an arm come up on the back of the cab to indicate which direction you were turning, turn signals being a do it yourself at home project, and power steering being a sissy option. I come by my fear of Tier 4 through years of wondering why I now have to have more than one tail light.

And keep some baling wire and channel locks in back just in case. That a screw driver and two open end wrenches - all repairs are possible.

 

[MTY]

On Easter Sunday, about 29 years ago, I was in Bend OR at 6 am. I could smell gas, and when I checked under the hood the carb was leaking. It turned out to be a defective O ring. I had a camper on the back of the truck, so I took a spatula and shoved a hot nail through it. I then sharpened the tube on the perculator coffee pot and after centering it on the nail hole I beat it through the spatula. That O ring lasted until I got home several days later. Pre computer almost all repairs were possible.

I guess it is independence that makes me want to avoid Tier 4.

 

[maple1]

As a diesel mechanic who deals with the headaches of modern emissions equipment on a daily basis. There is no way I would ever pruchase anything modern diesel with DPF, EGR, SCR,DEF or any other emissisions system on it. It all works fine untill it don't then you need special software and equipment to diagnose it. A simple emissions system fault will derate or completly shut down the machine. All it takes is one wire or sensor to get out of whack and your machine is useless untill somene can hook a computer to it.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

What can you buy new these days that doesnt have such emissions controls on it?

 

[maple1]

My personal opinion is Kubota is over priced and overrated.

Over priced compared to what others?

 

[heavy hammer]

I'm not saying anything bad about other tractor brands but if you are concerned about emissions DEF fluid Regen filters etc. Check out Mahindra they have none of these on their tractors at least the smaller ones, a few of the large 80hp+ may have DEF now. I have never ran a newer Kubota but the older ones are bullet proof. I thought they had the best little diesel motors available. I do agree Microduck17 with the diesel emission problems I see on the new equipment at work I would not want a new diesel anything. They run and work great until they have a problem, then you are down for the count. Plus The damage from the high temps they have to run at to burn off the emission gasses. All our new trucks and new equipment have nothing but problems. I only have 132 hours on my 40hp mahindra but I'm very happy with it and I have never had a problem but it 2 years old and practically new. I have had or used diesel trucks and equipment for over 20 years and I do not like the way the emissions have gone on these motors but it seems how the manufacturers have gone to meet the EPA restrictions. This is just my 2 cents.

 

[SpaceBus]

There are some folks that never use the emissions equipment on their tractors. Mine has a regen filter, but I doubt it will ever need to go into active regen. I've read the same across other tractor forums. There's also the gamble with used equipment. I thought about a used tracked skid steer or tractor but thinking about how these types of machines are used convinced me to buy new.

 

[AlbergSteve]

What can you buy new these days that doesnt have such emissions controls on it?

Bicycle.

 

[greg13]

I think Emission problems will be the death of diesels eventually, there are already electric and CNG tractor trailers. I have a 12k forklift that has been down for DEF problems more than it's been running, it's on its 4th DEF head in less than a year (all under warranty but still down) and another roller that we had to send the muffler out to be "baked" since it would not regen.
We had a brand new lift that was hammering so bad that I though the motor was going to blow just getting it off the truck from the factory. Cummings did a total tear down in the yard only to find out it was a computer caused problem.
Give me the old mechanical pumps & injectors any day, if you could get them to crank you could make them run!

 

[maple1]

We're actually test driving a Kubota right now, an M6. Have had it a couple weeks and decision time is looming real quick. Would really prefer not to have all the DEF and related stuff to deal with and be a possible source of future issues, but if looking at anything new or close to it, you're pretty well stuck with it.

 

[SpaceBus]

I specifically sought out an 06 Ram diesel to not have to deal with emissions stuff. I'm averaging 25 MPG with speeds between 30-55 MPH. Unfortunately though emission controls are the future, and we will just have to deal with it. I don't really mind the emissions equipment as I drive my tractor around my property and don't want to pollute where I live. If I ever have an issue with the system then I might change my mind.

 

[Kevin Weis]

I have two Kubota's. A little BX 1500 I bought in 04' and a ZD326 zero turn I bought about 7 years ago. Both still run well with no major work that was the fault of the equipment. The cost I thought was reasonable compared to "green". I don't think you can go wrong with a Kubota just get the right size for the work you need. The biggest mistake most folks make is to get something too small to save a few $ and they want it to do more than it was designed for. Sounds like maybe the "B' series or the "L" is what you may need.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Just to be clear, all new tractors sold today, regardless of horsepower, must meet tier 4 emissions. To pick a tractor size/power, list what you plan to use it for. Horse power is only really important for powered implements. If you want to run a big rotary cutter or wood chipper, power is king. I'd look next at what you want to lift, then find an appropriate sized machine.

If you like Kubota's offerings, you can get a BX, B01, B50 and standard L all with 25hp...increasing displacement in each so torque differences, but all still 25p. The main difference will be frame size and lift capacity. You can get the Bs and Ls with more hp, but yes, you'll have a DPF, which some seem to complain about, but most are fine.

Some manufacturers, like my personal favorite, Massey Ferguson are going away from DPFs. Their new 1700m series manages tier 4 compliance without it. I have a little GC model, and it does all I need on my little 1.5 acre suburban lot.

 

[maple1]

Power is kind of important for pulling big loads too.

 

[sloeffle]

Just to be clear, all new tractors sold today, regardless of horsepower, must meet tier 4 emissions. To pick a tractor size/power, list what you plan to use it for. Horse power is only really important for powered implements. If you want to run a big rotary cutter or wood chipper, power is king. I'd look next at what you want to lift, then find an appropriate sized machine.

Can you expand on this ? I was under the impression that machines under 19 Kw ( it roughly equals 25HP ) did not have to meet the Tier 4 requirements and are Tier 4 exempt.

https://www.crossco.com/blog/avoid-tier-4-requirements-using-hybrid-drive

 

[MTY]

In all honesty, I will probably rarely use this. While we have just shy of 40 acres, most of it is steep and being reforested. The trees will not be ready for harvest until I am long gone. We have a small plot of flat ground set aside for the garden, critters etc.. The wife plans to take care of this stuff, and the tractor is for her.

She likes the Kubota line, and I can live with any brand. We made two trips to the local Kubota dealer, and while I thought the L series would be good, she pointed out that it may be too big to get into the places she wants to use it. I agree. Our problem with Kubota is that in two trips to the dealership, we were ignored. I have heard the service department is not much better.

There is another dealer about 120 miles away, and if we go K we most likely will go there and find a local independent service location. I tried JD, but the dealer tried bait and switch. They advertised a low hour used 2014, but it was not as advertised.

Meanwhile, the weather is turning nice, and I have to get holes dug, lines in, the drain field put in etc.. The 8N, the mini ex, and the skid steer will keep me busy until it rains and then I will start tractor hunting again.

 

[kennyp2339]

The 8N, the mini ex, and the skid steer will keep me busy until it rains and then I will start tractor hunting again.

Well you didn't say you had all those other *heavy toys* in that case, yes go w/ the Kubota, stay under 26hp to have a straight diesel motor and enjoy.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Power is kind of important for pulling big loads too.

I would argue that gearing is more of a factor in pulling heavy loads...unless you are trying to go fast....relatively speaking, tractors don't go "fast".

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Can you expand on this ? I was under the impression that machines under 19 Kw ( it roughly equals 25HP ) did not have to meet the Tier 4 requirements and are Tier 4 exempt.

The company that wrote that article wants to sell you something, so take it with a grain of salt. The EPA regulations cover ALL engines outputs, The problem is that the regulation for engines over 25hp are more restrictive than below 25hp. So manufacturers have initially gone to things like DPFs. They have had some growing pains and some customer eduction to do. The problems people tend to have are mostly self induced, but they do add cost to the engines. Manufacturers are getting smarter though and some newer engines are going away from DPFs but still maintaining the emission standards.

Here is the EPA table for reference.:

 

[sloeffle]

The company that wrote that article wants to sell you something, so take it with a grain of salt. The EPA regulations cover ALL engines outputs, The problem is that the regulation for engines over 25hp are more restrictive than below 25hp.

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to re-think the idea of getting a diesel side by side. Like I said, I thought diesels under 25HP were exempt. I'd rather not deal with the something else to break if I don't have to. The regen process on my Yanmar hasn't been a huge pain so far, hopefully it stays that way.

 

[greg13]

But soon you can throw that chart in the trash, Tier 5 is on the way! OH BOY, MORE problems!

 

[Jags]

I would highly suggest taking a moment and re-read treepointers post above. I can’t really think of any application for a one acre yard area that requires a 35-40hp machine. The 8N that you use for snow was rated at a very questionable 24HP when new (I say questionable, because virtually all other makes of tractors at 24HP would pull an 8N backwards. Not picking on them - they were pretty tough, just a little squishy around the engine). Figure out the application - then figure out the tool that best fits that application.
There is one other point that I would like to point out in smaller tractors. Lift HEIGHT. Some of those little guys can’t clear the side of a truck bed. This may be important depending on your use. Just one dudes opinion.....

 

[MTY]

Right now I have about 5 years of dirt moving, retaining wall building, culvert placing, garage building, and shop building ahead of me. Where we live I push the 8N to its limits. Where we are moving, the snow is deeper and the driveway steeper. If I knew an approximate 25 horse 4wd would suffice, I would not have asked the question, and I lose the skid steer sometime this summer.

I have a long way to go before maintaining the yard is my only concern. Were it my only concern, I would not have asked the question. Ideally, I would buy both a small tractor and a medium size skid steer that I could sell when I am done construction. I'm not that rich.

I'd like to get as much done as possible before losing the skid steer and finish up construction with the 8N, but if that fails I'd like to be able to use the tractor. And if she tires of farming before the a little tractor is worn out, I would like it to be sufficient to plow the drive with. I'm afraid the tractor might be like most peoples' exercise equipment. A great idea that spends its time in the garage unused.

So, my hope was to get opinions by individuals actually using tractors in both power ranges so that I could make inferences as to which might be my best option.

 

[ColdNorCal]

5 1/2 acres in the foothills of the Sierras in Nor Cal. Some of the property has 25+ degree slopes. Lots of trees, native Oak and some large old Fruit Trees. Have a 25+ year old Kubota B2150 - 24hp, 54" FEL, 5 ft cutter (yes, perhaps over sized but it never feels that way even when cutting up and down the steep terrain), scraper and post hole digger. Use for hauling wood, cutting pastures including the steep terrain areas, digging fence post holes and planting. Bought the tractor used and have owned it for 15 years. Not one time have I needed or wanted a larger tractor. I do not haul large logs because I cut them to length where they fall then load them in the loader and on the back of the cutter. In short, the work this tractor does is impressive given its 24hp rating.

That being said, if I lived on 40 acres that needed cutting, then larger would be better.

 

[MTY]

Next year I am hoping to bring in a masticator and chip ever thing that will fit through it. After that, there should be little log or tree cutting for the next 40 years, and by then I will be well over 100 and most likely will not care. From the amount of work you are getting out of your 24hp, that probably will be sufficient.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

If you find the Kubota L2501 is a bit big, the B2601 or B2650 might be a good fit. If you are going to mow a residential yard, I wouldn't go bigger than the B2601 because of weight, but if not mowing, you can go a bit bigger. Neither of the models mentioned have a DPF, but they are larger than the Bx, so you get more lift capacity. Most manufacturers have similar side machines too.