Kinderhook information?

[MarkSJohnson]

Hi all-
I'm new to the forum, having read lots here over the last several days. (I didn't want to be one of those people that asks a question that's been answered over and over again!)

I have a a ~2500 square foot house...two stories over a walk-in basement..in central NH. My wife and I are looking at getting a pellet stove to supplement our natural-gas-fired boiler. It seems as though our kitchen used to have a big cook stove in it and the sole radiator that's now there just doesn't cut it. We've had the house over 20 years, and the kitchen has always been cold (no ghosts!). It's typically in the mid-50s in there at dawn, and we have new windows and have had everything checked for proper in-wall insulation. We've considered another (or bigger) radiator on the main system, or electric supplemental heaters. But our unfinished basement (and my wood shop there) get awfully cold too, making it no fun to work there between late November and early March. So, we started looking at the idea of a pellet stove that would warm that basement and additionally warm the kitchen through the radiant warmer kitchen floors and the heat that would travel up the basement stairs into the kitchen.

We've been talking to two dealers and primarily looking at two stoves, based upon their recommendations and the feedback I've gotten through these forums: The Napoleon NPS45 and the Hudson River Kinderhook. Neither dealer has the Kinderhook, and I'm surprised that nowhere on the Hudson River site, nor in their brochure, is there any info besides one photo and the specs. They list a "Digital control Board", but don't give ANY info regarding the settings that the stove has. Napoleon, to their credit, shows and explains the features of their control board very well in their brochure.

It SEEMS as though both would be reliable, lower-maintenance choices with the Napoleon offering lots of control options while the Kinderhook has a large hopper and no-nonsense design that might be better for a basement.

Is the Kinderhook lacking in features, or is Hudson River lacking a marketing department?

I could call one of the dealers for more information on the Kinderhook, but I thought it might be a good time to introduce myself here and get various opinions. If I choose a Kinderhook, I probably won't even get to see one until installation day!

Any and all advice appreciated!

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

Well the Kinderhook is made bt the same company as Enviro so it should be a pretty reliable stove. I have not seen one running in person, but have seen one. Seems like a well built, nothing flashy stove. The large hopper is a major bonus IMHO.

It would be nice if you could hear it run before hand but I would not expect it to be excessively loud.

Update us with what you finally decide.

 

[SteveB]

I started a conversation with you and attached the Kinderhook manual. I hope you get it. Don't know how to work conversations in here too well yet...

 

[MarkSJohnson]

Thank you both very much for your responses!

My plot thickens.... I'm including the Enviro Maxx / Vistaflame VF170 on my shortlist and have an opportunity to see the Vistaflame in a showroom today!

 

[briansol]

a pellet stove in the basement is not going to provide you much heat up stairs in the kitchen. IMO, put the stove in the kitchen where the oven once was with a liner in its pipe and think of another solution for the basement.

 

[MarkSJohnson]

Hi Briansol- Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, we just don't have a place to put a stove in the kitchen. It's big, but there are no "empty walls" that don't have a closet, cupboard, window, door, etc. Two different installers thought that a stove in the basement under the kitchen would help it quite a bit. The stairwell from the basement goes into the kitchen, and that door is always left open. Further, it only needs to supplement the radiator in the kitchen. If necessary, we could put a few registers in the kitchen floors, though I would save that for a last resort.

My plot has thinned a bit today with the visit to a dealer who had both an Enviro Maxx and a Hudson River Kinderhook for me to compare. Plus I went back to the dealer with whom I started this search and he had a Vistaflame VF170 (same as the Maxx). I have to say, I'm unsure of how many BTUs would be "enough", but I'm still bothered by the lack of info from Hudson River. I don't doubt that the stove might be a reliable option, but I can't even find what the CFM rating is for their fan, for instance.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

Try contacting BAC sales via the website. I have the now discontinued West Point made by them and they answered all my questions promptly. Even sent me an updated control.board free of charge.

 

[MarkSJohnson]

Thanks "Hater". I filled out the little "contact us" form on the Hudson River website.

I don't know if that means I've contacted BAC or not; I'm still a little fuzzy on the whole "This stove is made by Enviro for a distribution company because Hudson River was started by just a guy (who evidently was a nice guy) until it was bought out by a distribution company who contracts with Enviro to make the stove along with the Enviro branded stoves and the re-branded Vistaflame models because they are all the same things and Harmon is best and it's OK to leave your pellet stove burning when you go out" thing.

 

[SteveB]

Sounds like you need a little break Mark It can get to be a little overwhelming with so many brands out there and so many different opinions, etc. Don't worry you'll get there and it will all be ok. BTW, if your stove is installed properly and cleaned as it should be, It IS ok to leave your pellet stove burning when you go out. We sometimes go away for a couple days with both stoves burning. Been burning pellets since '07 with no problems. and I just gotta throw this in before somebody else does, its HarmAn, not HarmOn!

 

[MarkSJohnson]

Thanks, Steve. I'll GET a break now: I just ordered the Kinderhook and will have a couple of weeks break until installation!

 

[SteveB]

Thanks, Steve. I'll GET a break now: I just ordered the Kinderhook and will have a couple of weeks break until installation!

Cool! the Kinderhook looks like a pretty nice stove.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

Let is know how you like it.....it is on my short list of second stoves

 

[MarkSJohnson]

I promise a full report- from a newbie perspective!

 

[MarkSJohnson]

I have a couple of questions for which a search didn't provide answers.

The Kinderhook uses a 3" vent, but my dealer/installer says it's better to turn that into a 4" vent. I'll be using an OAK. Is that common practice, or does it affect the draft negatively?

Also, I currently have two smoke detectors (one on a monitored alarm, one not) in the basement where the stove will be installed. They are each about 18' ~ 20' away from where the stove will be, but near the stairwell up to the first floor. I'd like to install a carbon monoxide detector also. Is it better to install nearer to the stove?

 

[Don2222]

Hello

1.
I like the 4" because the seams do not have as much pressure and less likely to leak smoke as easily. Also I use Selkirk DT which is 4" diameter with the 3rd wall to bring warm burn air into the burn pot for better effeciency

2.
I have a carbon monoxide detector close to the stove but not the smoke detectors.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

I have a couple of questions for which a search didn't provide answers.

The Kinderhook uses a 3" vent, but my dealer/installer says it's better to turn that into a 4" vent. I'll be using an OAK. Is that common practice, or does it affect the draft negatively?

Also, I currently have two smoke detectors (one on a monitored alarm, one not) in the basement where the stove will be installed. They are each about 18' ~ 20' away from where the stove will be, but near the stairwell up to the first floor. I'd like to install a carbon monoxide detector also. Is it better to install nearer to the stove?

You only need 4" vent if you have too long a venting or with too many elbows....there is a calculation for that and your manual should state what is needed. Sounds like your dealer is trying to up sell you on more expensive venting.

 

[MarkSJohnson]

Actually, he charges the same whether it's 3" or 4". He's told me that he believes it to be superior and that it means he can stock less because he's not carrying two different sizes of every piece.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

Actually, he charges the same whether it's 3" or 4". He's told me that he believes it to be superior and that it means he can stock less because he's not carrying two different sizes of every piece.

Sounds to me he is taking advantage of peoples that don't know any better....you certainly are not getting a deal going with MORE expensive piping if your install does not require it.....if he charges the same for the three inch he is just making more money for the "trouble" of stocking the three inch pipe.

Use what the manual requires for your particular install.

 

[MarkSJohnson]

Today is the install day! I'll post photos when it's done.

Everyone says to try different pellets to see what a particular stove does well with, so I've purchased almost a ton of different pellets over the last several days. Tractor Supply house brand, Maine Woods, Maine Woods 100% softwood, Greene Team Platinums, Green Supremes, Maine's Choice, Agway-branded, Lignetics, Fireside Ultras, Cubex Extras, and Vermonts.

To "give back" to the forum for the help I've received, I plan on posting a pretty thorough "results" ...ummmmm.....post ..... that might prove helpful to someone. For me, I'd like to decide on something before the snow flies, as I have the capability of driving right up to my basement walk-out door up until there's snow on the ground!

 

[krooser]

Good luck… that stove may have it's work cut out for it in that basement...

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

Today is the install day! I'll post photos when it's done.

Everyone says to try different pellets to see what a particular stove does well with, so I've purchased almost a ton of different pellets over the last several days. Tractor Supply house brand, Maine Woods, Maine Woods 100% softwood, Greene Team Platinums, Green Supremes, Maine's Choice, Agway-branded, Lignetics, Fireside Ultras, Cubex Extras, and Vermonts.

To "give back" to the forum for the help I've received, I plan on posting a pretty thorough "results" ...ummmmm.....post ..... that might prove helpful to someone. For me, I'd like to decide on something before the snow flies, as I have the capability of driving right up to my basement walk-out door up until there's snow on the ground!

Sweet Cannot wait for picks and reviews

 

[MarkSJohnson]

Thanks, Krooser. I raised the temp in the far corner of the basement from 58 degrees to 66 degrees yesterday after installation and burning "mostly" on a setting of 2 or 3 for 4 hours. (I raised it to 4 and lowered it to 1 periodically to run it through it's paces a bit. The outdoor temp was only in the 40s yesterday, but I think I'll be OK.

I have a question of concern though, and didn't want to start a new thread for just this:

On it's first time of firing up, it seemed to take an inordinate amount of time for the room blower to kick on....like 20 minutes or so. The tech/installer was concerned and took off the panels on each side to check for any disconnected wires. It DID eventually come on, and he said (and I'm paraphrasing the terminology a bit) that he's seen instances where the switch that registers that the stove is up to temp is sometimes a bit sticky when new. He's been told by another installer that the the other guy occasionally hols a lighter under the switch to get it going the first time. But, he said to keep an eye on it and marked in the install instructions that there might be a problem so any follow-up service call wouldn't have a charge.Anyway, he told me to keep an eye on it until it proves itself over several start-ups. I didn't do any yesterday, just letting it run for awhile till the evening.

This morning I started it up, and it must have taken 20 to 25 minutes AFTER the pellets were actually burning until the room fan came on. I let it burn on #3 for about five minutes and, again to see how it responds, set it down to a #1. I went to the kitchen for a coffee and came back after 2 minutes or so and the room fan had shut off. I shut it down at the time and will try another startup in awhile with a timer running to clock it.

It seems to me that if you have a good flame going (licking the heat exchange tubes) for more than 5-7 minutes, that room fan should be on..... and it shouldn't be shutting off a couple of minutes after turning the stove down to a 1.

The installer said he had a light day today and could even come back over the weekend if I had any concerns since he wasn't sure it was "right". Now, I'm less sure. I can call in a couple of hours when the place opens, but hoped I'd get a few opinions here in the meantime!

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

Sometes on low-level 1 the feed needs to be adjusted tonkeepnenough flame going to satisfy the low limit. Do you have a feed trim?
If so, turn it up so more fuel is delivered. Also, which pellets are you burning?

20-25 minutes does seem like a long time, but if you are starting on low and can barely reach the limit I am not surprised.....raising that low feed I hope will help

 

[MarkSJohnson]

20-25 minutes does seem like a long time, but if you are starting on low and can barely reach the limit I am not surprised

Thanks for the response. Actually, I'm starting it on a "3". I'm going to re-start it in a couple of minutes when I can stand there to attend it. I'll take good notes.

Yes, I DO have a feed rate trim button. I'm burning Fireside Ultras right now. FWIW, the installer very much liked the burn yesterday and the company I bought the stove from doesn't even sell that brand, so he was likely pretty unbiased.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

Yeah, those are pretty good pellets. But the are also harder to get started.

I started a thread called igniter time. When I started that thread I was using Fireside Ultras. It took my stove about 15 minutes for the room blower to come on.

I switched to AWF and now it only take about 8.

So that can be part of it.

Try the MWP regular or Green Supremes...they are a little less dense and may ignite quicker....just a thought