Just bought Harman exception insert

[begreen]

Back to the situation at hand.

The Harman exception appears to be a wood insert. Sounds like your chimney is unlined except the top, which was rebuilt. This suggests that chimney is perhaps old and in poor repair. As Elk says, relining is a MUST in the case of a chimney that is not already lined fully with terra cotta. You may have nothing but some ancient decaying brick between your flue (which can hit 100 degrees plus) and some very dry framing wood.

Craig et al

I thank you all for your unbiased opinions and am happy I found this sight. My home is over 150 years old and I'm sure some of the brick in my chimney is old and barely insulating the wood frame around it. I will be going to the dealertomorrow and insisting on an install with a completely lined chimney. Had I not done the research and found such and informative website, I'm not sure how the install would have gone. Perhaps you guys saved an old home, or more importantly a family. I promise to send some pix once the job is done.

I'm proud to be one who is searching for alternative fuels to heat my home and will continue to be involved in this forum. Perhaps one day I will have a smidgen of the knowledge you guys have and will be able to help others in the same way you guys have helped me.

ERic

Eric, the stuff we found with our 82 year old chimney when we took out the fireplace was amazing. The mortar was no more than sand in some locations. And there were 3 other takeoffs from various stove connections that had been "sort of" sealed up. In some cases this meant simply a piece of sheetrock or wood! in front of a metal plug. I never ran that chimney without a full liner and am very glad in retrospect I didn't consider trying to get away without one. It's not worth it.

 

[elkimmeg]

Eric welcome aboard. The right way to do it is a full lines and damper block off plate. I'm not a dealer but an inspector. I have been at it long enough , that I feel I know most codes and gave you sound advice based upon codes

Good luck and keep us posted. There will be many new members like you, that will be in your situation. I hope you hang around and help them as well. Unfortunately a full lining cost more, the extra money, will be well worth it, to get a good functioning stove

 

[seaken]

Back to the situation at hand.

The Harman exception appears to be a wood insert. Sounds like your chimney is unlined except the top, which was rebuilt. This suggests that chimney is perhaps old and in poor repair. As Elk says, relining is a MUST in the case of a chimney that is not already lined fully with terra cotta. You may have nothing but some ancient decaying brick between your flue (which can hit 100 degrees plus) and some very dry framing wood.

The temperatures inside the chimney can, in fact, exceed 2000 degreee F in the case of a chimney fire. A chimney fire is likely if you were to not install a liner. Poor draft conditions mixed with poor fuel quality and some inexperience is a perfect recipe for a chimney fire. You should have two or three chimney professionals inspect the chimney and give you estimates on what is needed to safely vent a wood stove. It may be that you bought from a non-installing dealer, or a non-certified reseller. It is okay to buy a good stove from a reseller who is not an installer. But it is not okay for that dealerto allow you to fend for yourself with the installation. You need a professional installer.

I would suggest that you will also need insulation along with your liner. In my area, (Hudson Valley, NY) you can expect to pay over $1500 for the materials and another $1000-$2000 for the labor, for about 35 feet with quality materials (not cheap ultra-light-weight liner that you may find available from some outlets).

You can find certified professionals at www.csia.org or www.hpba.org

Good luck,
Sean

 

[HarryBack]

in the pellet manuals it shows both types of installs, stub in and full line, you dont need any draft, and the pellet manufactures state the larger the flue the less backpressure the combustion blower will have. So they promote large dumps, they even have a 3" to 6" top vent adapeter, they claim two reasons "to improve draft and make the stove look like a more natural installation" this is true for quadrafire...

True for Harman as well, MSG. I already knew what the manual stated, but since I only carry Harman, I was curious to see what Elk had to say about that. He pretty much stated what our own building inpector does as well....read the manual, they mostly approve installations as specifically shown in the owners manual.

 

[bige34]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but I'm new at this:

What about directly venting the Harman Exception right out of the house? Can I simply put a hole in chimney and vent it about 10 feet above ground, or must I go all the way up the chimney. I'm sure there is a draft issue, but thought I'd ask just in case I'm missing something.

Eric

 

[seaken]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but I'm new at this:

What about directly venting the Harman Exception right out of the house? Can I simply put a hole in chimney and vent it about 10 feet above ground, or must I go all the way up the chimney. I'm sure there is a draft issue, but thought I'd ask just in case I'm missing something.

Eric

Hi Eric,

the Exception is a wood burning stove and it uses natural draft. It is designed to expect a certain amount of negative pressure in the outlet pipe. It is not like a pellet stove that uses positive pressure in the vent system. You cannot design a vent system that is similar to a pellet vent since it will restrict draft and cause poor performance. Poor performance will lead to safety issues such as smoke spillage, carbon monoxide, creosote fires, etc. The Exception will require the flue liner to go all the way to the top of your chimney, as verticle as possible. Besides the draft issues and saftey issues the building codes affecting chimneys for wood stoves will not allow you to do as you described. (of course, I can't really tell for certainty what you are trying to describe, yet. I am assuming you are asking about venting the wood stove similarly to how a direct vent appliance is vented)

We can never forget that we are dealing with fire. Wood stoves are especially subject to user error. Therefore, the system must be installed as safely as possible to prevent operator error from contributing to a dangerous situation. Unfortunately wood stoves do not get enough respect in general. Many folks mistakenly think that wood stoves are simple and require no special knowledge, like plugging in a toaster. (Please don't assume I am criticising your personally here - just a general comment) But it's not that simple, as history has shown. The codes have tightened up because careless installations continue to contribute to property damage and loss of life. Along with tougher codes we also have many people who have made chimneys and fireplaces their trade and work hard to protect consumers from the dangers of fire and it's by-products. Chimney sweeps and hearth dealers are among those who study how vent systems work and how they can be designed to ensure safety and proper operation of the appliance.

As a hearth professional it is my hope that more and more people find this place and others like it before they install their stove or fireplaces so they can, like you have obviously done, discover that the best way to be safe is to seek help. Asking questions as above allow others to explore the answers as they apply to their own situation. There can be input from the many non-professionals who have had personal experience with their own installations and this can be enormously helpful as you learn about the complexities surrounding your appliance and your chimney system. Input from professionals in the trade can help you choose a competent local professional to assist you in making your own installation safe and efficient. Self installs are appropriate when all the safety considerations have been addressed and properly applied. With the proper respect for the wood stove (or other fuel burning appliance) a handy DIYer can complete the job satisfactorily. One of the keys to success will be the willingness to learn and the humility to admit when there is a lack of knowledge. Only after the proper knowledge has been aquired should one proceed with the installation. This knowledge is also useful even when you hire someone else to install for you. Sometimes an installer who calls him/her self a professional is not very well informed, and thus not very professional. Your own knowledge can help you choose the right helper.

So, keep asking. There are no stupid questions when you are trying to learn. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Sean

 

[bige34]

Sean,

You have not offended me at all. I appreciate the time you and others like you take to educate us rookies. Thanks for all the info.

Eric

 

[seaken]

Sean,

You have not offended me at all. I appreciate the time you and others like you take to educate us rookies. Thanks for all the info.

Eric

You are welcome. I have learned to be more careful. Sometimes what I type can come over as condescending or in some other way spark the ire of another unsuspecting poster. I'm glad you got my drift. I really do try to be helpful. Even when what I have to say is not what another wants to hear.

Best to you, and safe heating.
Sean

 

[bige34]

Here's a quick update.

Thanks to all of the information, advice, and direction I got on this sight, I returned to the dealer I purchased my stove from and told him a few things about my house that he had not asked. First I told him I did not believe my chimney had a liner and he asked "why, do you have an old home"? My home is 150+ years old and I got a bit angry that such a novice like me was not steered in the right direction with what should have been some concerned questions from the dealer. Nevertheless, he now told me I needed a full liner which is what I wanted in the first place. I'm picking up my stove tomorrow and should have it completely installed in the next two weeks. I will post pix of the install.

Thanks for everyone who has taken the time to educate me and perhaps one day I will be able to return the favor.

Eric

 

[BrotherBart]

Enjoy that nice stove Eric. And the timing is right on cue. Cold is coming.