Jotul F500 vs Woodstock Fireview?

[Stump_Branch]

Well didnt take much to convince the better half. She enjoys the heat aa much as i enjoy playing with them.
However the placements have me puzzeled. Im thinking the fireview in a family room for the long burns and steady heat where i spend most of the time. SS lined 15' insulated.
I think the jotul may get the backup in the basement, 8x8 clay about 25'....hard as i havent had a full season with her and has not let us down. Hate to pull a starter whos been doing well for another...

Oh if only they didnt weigh 500 lbs and i could change them like socks.

 

[ddddddden]

Yeah, Ozzy doesn't deserve banishment, but if it's going to be a team effort now, better to use all the players in positions which fit their strengths. Sounds like you have a free pass from the Mrs, maybe you could just slide Ozzy to the side and run the FV in that spot for a bit, then make a more informed decision.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Well didnt take much to convince the better half. She enjoys the heat aa much as i enjoy playing with them.
However the placements have me puzzeled. Im thinking the fireview in a family room for the long burns and steady heat where i spend most of the time. SS lined 15' insulated.
I think the jotul may get the backup in the basement, 8x8 clay about 25'....hard as i havent had a full season with her and has not let us down. Hate to pull a starter whos been doing well for another...

Oh if only they didnt weigh 500 lbs and i could change them like socks.

That is the best use of the two. I have found that the cast iron comes up to temp more quickly and is easier to use for quicker heat when you are using multiple stoves.

 

[jotul8e2]

You are a very bad man, StumpBranch!
Similar predictions here. Both fireboxes ~ 2 cu ft, AFAIK, but I did read a recent post by someone who thought that the Oslo was bigger. . . The Oslo should be quicker on cold starts, and is rated for 70K BTU, but I guesstimate that this level of output would result in ~ 4-hr burn time.

Since the stove is cold and I was curious, I just measured the firebox of my Oslo. Not counting the area that protrudes for the front door (you can't really put wood there) it is 14" X 13" X 24", for a 2.5 cu. ft. firebox.

I expect that the experience of many of us colors our opinions regarding the importance of ash pans. I have seen stoves where cleaning out the ashes is a real ordeal. Others are no real problem at all. I have a stove (the Oslo) which has a very good and reasonably easy to use ash pan. I have used a stove (Hearthstone) with an ash pan that was pretty much useless.

If anyone can run an Oslo at its maximum rated output for four hours on a single load, I would very much like to see it. Or any other wood burning stove, for that matter. My back-of-the-napkin calculations shows that a 70% efficient stove can average maybe half its rated output for a single burn cycle.

 

[ddddddden]

Yes, we all know that wood does not release heat in a linear fashion. I was just pointing out the obvious. . .with a given amount of fuel, higher output = shorter burn time. . .70K BTU for 4 hours being an extreme example, based on a guesstimate that the Oslo will hold ~ 40 lbs of wood. I don't think Jotul publishes a firebox volume spec for the Oslo. . .Castine either. Woodstock spec for Fireview ~ 2.2 cu ft. . .usable space measures ~ 1.8 cu ft. It sounds like the Oslo's box is about the same size, but 24" long, whereas the Fireview's ~ 20" (not a significant difference if burning 18" splits, but sure some folks burn longer splits.)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/45949/

F600 = ~ 3 cu ft
F500 = ~ 2 cu ft
F400 = ~ 1.5 cu ft
F3CB = ~ 1 cu ft

 

[ddddddden]

p.s. I recall a lengthy debate over the Castine's measured firebox capacity. 1.5 vs. 1.75 cu ft. Apparently Jotul has some restrictions about how close to the glass and how high wood can be placed. Maybe similar restrictions apply to the Oslo, causing some folks to estimate its capacity ~ 2 cu ft.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/50986/

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Gyprat, we'll be watching and waiting for the results when you pull the cat.

 

[firefighterjake]

We've been looking for a new wood stove for a while. The choices were finally narrowed down to Jotul Oslo F500 or Woodstock Fireview.

I looked at those same choices when I moved into our new house. It came down to capacity - I needed the firebox size of the Oslo. If faced with a similar decision again I would still come down on firebox size as the deciding factor between such two well regarded, quality stoves.

And the ash pan on the Oslo didn't hurt either. The open grate in the Oslo with the large ash pan is a big deal to me. I also burn 24/7 for about five months a year and the ability to quickly remove the ash without disturbing the fire is a real plus. I wish I could go a week, but it is every three to four days for me.

The comment above about the air control getting hot caught be by surprise; I had never thought about it. It does, of course, but I don' grab it, just tap it one direction or the other

Same here . . . I just tap it with my foot or use a small piece of left-over slate I leave on the hearth to move it one way or the other.

 

[Todd]

Yes, we all know that wood does not release heat in a linear fashion. I was just pointing out the obvious. . .with a given amount of fuel, higher output = shorter burn time. . .70K BTU for 4 hours being an extreme example, based on a guesstimate that the Oslo will hold ~ 40 lbs of wood. I don't think Jotul publishes a firebox volume spec for the Oslo. . .Castine either. Woodstock spec for Fireview ~ 2.2 cu ft. . .usable space measures ~ 1.8 cu ft. It sounds like the Oslo's box is about the same size, but 24" long, whereas the Fireview's ~ 20" (not a significant difference if burning 18" splits, but sure some folks burn longer splits.)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/45949/

F600 = ~ 3 cu ft
F500 = ~ 2 cu ft
F400 = ~ 1.5 cu ft
F3CB = ~ 1 cu ft

When I went to the stove shop and looked at the Jotul's I thought the Fireview's box was right in between the Oslo and Castine. The Oslo is definitely larger if you load it up full compared to the Fireview. I think Woodstock never changed it's fire box volume in the manual when they changed from the 201 model to the 205 model. The old baffle and cat setup in the 201 gives a little more fire box than the new 205.

 

[Stump_Branch]

No argument that the oslo is larger. Mostly longer, or i should say longer splits. However its trickier to fill it up with worry of a shift and a split rolling up on the glass. I love the adirons in the fireview. I was debating on trying to add some to the jotul, easy to bolt with the doghouse being there. Would make front door loading near impossible. Which leads me to another thing i wish stove makers would do, incorporate some adirons on the door itself. Swing out of the way and keep logs off the glass. Would still have to be a two load point style stove, either top or side door but still.

 

[BrowningBAR]

No argument that the oslo is larger. Mostly longer, or i should say longer splits. However its trickier to fill it up with worry of a shift and a split rolling up on the glass. I love the adirons in the fireview. I was debating on trying to add some to the jotul, easy to bolt with the doghouse being there. Would make front door loading near impossible. Which leads me to another thing i wish stove makers would do, incorporate some adirons on the door itself. Swing out of the way and keep logs off the glass. Would still have to be a two load point style stove, either top or side door but still.

I used to worry about splits rolling onto the glass with the Heritage, but it doesn't bother me much anymore. More of a 'tip' than it is a 'roll'. I worry more about loading the stove as I have a tendency to hit the glass when side loading.

I'd like andirons on the Heritage if they were attached up on the lip of the stove, above the air hole, so it does not chew into the firebox size. And andirons should be removable like they are on the Intrepid.

I'd also like it if the andirons were removable on the Encore. When I look at used stoves I used to wonder how the andirons were bent or broken up top. I don't wonder anymore. Front loading the Encore can be a pain. You are dealing with this huge opening since the doors swing completely out of the way, but fitting large splits from the front of the stove can be challenging due to the andirons.

 

[firefighterjake]

No argument that the oslo is larger. Mostly longer, or i should say longer splits. However its trickier to fill it up with worry of a shift and a split rolling up on the glass. I love the adirons in the fireview. I was debating on trying to add some to the jotul, easy to bolt with the doghouse being there. Would make front door loading near impossible. Which leads me to another thing i wish stove makers would do, incorporate some adirons on the door itself. Swing out of the way and keep logs off the glass. Would still have to be a two load point style stove, either top or side door but still.

If you're worried about a round or split rolling up against the glass and breaking it, I wouldn't worry too much. It happens . . . even if you are careful in how you load the stove . . . the "glass" is tough stuff.

Now, if you're thinking the andirons would be handy in keeping a rolling round or split away from the window to keep it from messing up the clean glass . . . then yeah, I could understand that completely.

I too have entertained some thoughts in the past of making some home made andirons . . . maybe L-shaped with a heavy weighted bottom . . . but since I'm basically cheap and lazy and the stove still works well without them . . . well, still no andirons . . . I do like the idea of the andirons incorporated into the door though.

 

[Stump_Branch]

Sunday, sunday, sunday!

Okay the fight actuall will start tonight with the swap out test fire, but after a busy weekend ill report sunday with i hope pictures. This weekend should allow me to stretch the fireviews legs while being around to see whats going on.

 

[Stump_Branch]

Shes in and lit.

I did not expect to see similar secondary combustion like ghost flames.
I like the red cat glow, like an idoit light saying your doing it right.
550, cranked down for overnight. Shall see what lies in front of me.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Shes in and lit.

I did not expect to see similar secondary combustion like ghost flames.
I like the red cat glow, like an idoit light saying your doing it right.
550, cranked down for overnight. Shall see what lies in front of me.

Start a new thread and post some pics.

 

[ddddddden]

Shazaam! Yeah, she's a bit of a "hybrid," despite the lack of fancy designation. Look inside above the glass, and you'll see a row of jets for the air wash, also works like a non-cat burn tube when the box is hot. IME, the light show usually starts 1.5-2 hrs into a slow cat burn, and the more air space you leave at the top when loading the box, the bigger the light show. . .pack completely full, and the secondary flames are mostly confined to the air scoop/cat box. Welcome to the Temple of the Cat.

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[Gyprat]

The weather finally coooled down enough to use the stove again. I'm unable to get the top temperature above 420 degrees. The inlet damper has to stay half open to get it this high. Closing the damper causes the temperature to drop below 350 degrees.
I've even tried buying bundles of kiln dried wood from Home Depot. Same result with even shorter burn times.
I'm thinking of returning the stove if this is how it works. 4 hours of burn time is the most I can get out of it. I'm not going to get up in the middle of night to reload it and then wait for another 30 minutes for the temperature to get over 250 degrees in order to engage the cat. It's cheaper and more efficient to heat with electricity at this point.

 

[logger]

Loaded the Oslo at 9pm and hat a hot bed of coals at 6am.. just sayin. lol. Woodstocks have great reputations. Im sure its something with your particular stove or set-up. Best of luck.

 

[Gyprat]

I pulled the cat out yesterday before lighting the stove. It looks ok with a little whitish soot accumulation. Cleaned it with a vacuum cleaner and reinstalled. Also checked the bypass damper. It was a little loose so I tightened the hinges a little bit.
The stove still performs the same. I think something is wrong with the cat.

 

[Todd]

Sounds like your using too much air? What number are you burning at? Most burn somewhere around #1. The cat won't have time to burn the smoke at higher settings. Good rule of thumb is to engage the cat at 1, let it burn for an hour and don't mess with it. Sometimes after engaging it may look like it's going out but comes back strong. Give it a little more time, plenty people here to help out.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

The weather finally coooled down enough to use the stove again. I'm unable to get the top temperature above 420 degrees. The inlet damper has to stay half open to get it this high. Closing the damper causes the temperature to drop below 350 degrees.
I've even tried buying bundles of kiln dried wood from Home Depot. Same result with even shorter burn times.
I'm thinking of returning the stove if this is how it works. 4 hours of burn time is the most I can get out of it. I'm not going to get up in the middle of night to reload it and then wait for another 30 minutes for the temperature to get over 250 degrees in order to engage the cat. It's cheaper and more efficient to heat with electricity at this point.

As you can tell by others who have a Fireview, there is something wrong there but it is doubtful that it is the stove.

Getting the Fireview to 420 degrees is super easy with the right fuel. Also, why are you closing the damper? Have you tried the setting of 1 yet? The stove is not designed to burn with the draft closed. However, we have burned it that way a few times but our normal setting it from .75 to 1. Here is how we generally do things:

1. With cold stove, we put 2 small to medium splits on the bottom forming a slight Vee.
2. Place 1/4 Super Cedar in middle of Vee and light it immediately.
3. Place 4-6 pieces of kindling across the Vee.
4. Place 1 or 2 more splits on top of kindling.
5. Close door. Draft set fully open. Cat not engaged.

In a very short time (I would have to time it but maybe 10-15 minutes we have to close the draft to about 2 (half way). Another 10-15 minutes, sometimes more the draft will have to be closed further, usually to 1. Stovetop reaches 200 and flue 400, cat is engaged. Final setting of draft is either at 1 or slightly below that.

Most times on this initial fire the stove top temperature will not go over 450 but as soon as we add more fuel, it is very easy to reach 600+ degrees.


So what is the difference? First, our chimney is too short and according to more knowledgeable folks, we should not get good burns with this short chimney. Second, our fuel is what I'd call prime. No, I have never checked moisture content. This year's wood is 99% white ash that was cut during the winter of 2008-2009. It was split and stacked during early April of 2009. This year's wood was stacked in the barn in October of this year. So our wood is just a bit over 2 years seasoned but I have no idea what the moisture content is nor do I care. All I know is that the wood gives us excellent heat and we don't have to fight go get a good fire.

Is there other differences? Of course it is difficult to compare weather and also difficult to compare the surrounding area except to say we live in the woods and have some very tall trees to contend with and being on the south and west side of the tallest trees we have to contend with downdrafts during windy days. It does not seem to have much effect though on the operation of the stove.

 

[Stump_Branch]

Its hard not to toy with it but like todd said, youll be backing down the air and when its time to close the bypass you should be below 2. After its lit you should be in that 1 range. Maybe sooner.

Can you see the cat glow at all? Doesnt have to but its a sure sign its working.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

The weather finally coooled down enough to use the stove again. I'm unable to get the top temperature above 420 degrees. The inlet damper has to stay half open to get it this high. Closing the damper causes the temperature to drop below 350 degrees.
I've even tried buying bundles of kiln dried wood from Home Depot. Same result with even shorter burn times.
I'm thinking of returning the stove if this is how it works. 4 hours of burn time is the most I can get out of it. I'm not going to get up in the middle of night to reload it and then wait for another 30 minutes for the temperature to get over 250 degrees in order to engage the cat. It's cheaper and more efficient to heat with electricity at this point.

Why would you have to wait 30 minutes to engage the cat.

 

[Gyprat]

The weather finally coooled down enough to use the stove again. I'm unable to get the top temperature above 420 degrees. The inlet damper has to stay half open to get it this high. Closing the damper causes the temperature to drop below 350 degrees.
I've even tried buying bundles of kiln dried wood from Home Depot. Same result with even shorter burn times.
I'm thinking of returning the stove if this is how it works. 4 hours of burn time is the most I can get out of it. I'm not going to get up in the middle of night to reload it and then wait for another 30 minutes for the temperature to get over 250 degrees in order to engage the cat. It's cheaper and more efficient to heat with electricity at this point.

Why would you have to wait 30 minutes to engage the cat.

Because the top temperature would be below 200 deg. Normally I leave the bypass open for 10 minutes after adding wood, just like the manual says.

 

[Gyprat]

Its hard not to toy with it but like todd said, youll be backing down the air and when its time to close the bypass you should be below 2. After its lit you should be in that 1 range. Maybe sooner.

Can you see the cat glow at all? Doesnt have to but its a sure sign its working.

I can only see a small portion of the cat glow. It's the back right corner that glows. The temperature on the righ side or the stove top runs about 80 hotter.
And yes I tried setting the damper to around 1 after engaging the combustor. Doing so makes the temperature to begin dopping below 380 deg. It works better with the setting of 2 with large yellow flame and top tempeature reaching near 450. The thermometer is accurate and closely matches infared gun reading.