Jotul 400 -not hot

[BHop]

Hi all,

I recently purchased a Jotul Castine for my new home. Have burnt wood growing up via a boiler but new to a stove. Purchased the Jotul because they seem to be the best or one of them. I won't get started on the learning curve but I am managing for now -lot of great advice here.

My issue is that it is not heating as much or as fast as I would expect. Mid eighties ranch, well insulated and 1600 square feet. Stove is centrally located with an open floor plan. 6 foot walkway to the kitchen and open to the family room. I come home from work with the house at 67 from my primary heat and then start a fire. It seems to take about an hour to get up to temp. Running pretty steady at 500-625 via stovetop . Temperature in this room via my primary thermostat does climb but very slowly. It is working hard from 6pm to 11pm to get it from 67 to 74. Having a hard time getting it above that point in this room alone. Am I expecting too much? I was expecting to be able to push the house to the point where I would need to crack a window but I am nowhere close to that. Sitting on my couch 6 feet away and could use a sweatshirt.

Good seasoned ash at 12 percent moisture. Double wall Selkirk....thinking of swapping to single wall but would that help significantly? Wife talked me into the double wall for the kids.

Thanks everyone in advance.

 

[claydogg84]

1,600 sq ft is a decent sized space to heat. What made you go with the smaller 400 over the Oslo or Firelight? I don't think the switch to single wall pipe is going to make much, if any difference. Are you using any fans to move the heat around?

 

[Woody Stover]

Good seasoned ash at 12 percent moisture.

That sounds low. Are you measuring on the center of a freshly-split piece?

Am I expecting too much?

Maybe so. Stove is rated at "up to 1600 sq.ft." That is likely in the best of conditions, super insulation and air-sealing, located down in KY or TN. You may not have enough stove for OH in the dead of winter...

 

[BHop]

I got talked out of the Oslo by two different dealers....we will see if I end up regretting that. I have three bedrooms and two bathrooms down the hall that make up that 1600 so really for my living,family and kitchen I am looking at 900-1000. If I can't get above 75 , 6 feet from the stove, I don't see how I can expect anything more in the adjacent rooms.

expected it to climb faster and higher from previous history with other wood furnaces.

 

[BHop]

That sounds low. Are you measuring on the center of a freshly-split piece?
Randomly checked my stack a month or so ago. I'll check tomorrow from the pile I have inside that I have been burning from. Thanks

 

[Chimney Smoke]

Do you have any fans running? I have a similar size house except mine is around 1000 on the first floor and 600 on the second floor. The side of the house my stove is in is very open. I can take the downstairs from 60 to 70 in about an hour and a half in these current warmer than normal temps. The downstairs will settle around 74 after the stove has been running for a while. My stove is a pretty small steel stove (2.2 CF box). The one thing I've noticed that makes a huge difference is running the ceiling fan that is located around 16 feet away from the stove. If I don't turn the fan on it takes a long time to warm up the downstairs.

 

[kennyp2339]

BHop - The rule of thumb is always heat with your stove, not your chimney. The double wall pipe actually helps by keeping the flue gasses hotter for a cleaner chimney, a clean chimney will give you optimal draft, so don't touch it..lol.
I'm assuming that this unit is on its own free standing hearth? no fire place, not in a room with vaulted ceilings? Do you have any fans to help move air?
The temps you describe seem just about as normal as you can get with running the stove, as other members mentioned the 400 is rated to heat up to 1600 sq ft, so perhaps the unit is already maxed out, would the dealer let you trade your unit for the next larger size?

 

[rsw49]

As others have mentioned the Castine may be a little underpowered to heat 1600 sq ft. We are part time heaters and have our Castine in a weekend house so we go through the big warm up cycle several times a week. We have a 1200 sq ft manufactured home with a open floor plan and stove centrally located. Great room/kitchen with all three bedrooms and baths having doors opening on the main room. We burn a lot of poplar since we had to cut down about eight trees and it is free and dry. Yesterday I went out to the house and started a fire with outside temp at 32 degrees and the house at 50 degrees. With the fire started at about 11:30 by 4:00 it was up to 70 degrees. That is with a ceiling fan on and fans blowing air from the bedrooms to the stove room. I did push the stove a little reloading when the firebox burned down to about half and lower 400's. If I had spent the night I would have backed off to complete burn cycles to keep the place from overheating. I could have run it up to 80 degrees easily. Last Winter we saw a number of nights that were -5 to -10 degrees F and once the house was warmed up the stove maintained the temperature easily. Unfortunately the poplar calls for a reload about 3AM. I am hoping for some better burn times next year with some dry oak, maple etc. With heating 33% more space with your 1600 sq ft and the eventual real winter and single digits the F400 might not cut it. My vote would be for the Oslo.

 

[begreen]

The Castine is an able and willing heater. I would run it a bit hotter up to the 650-700F range for faster warm ups. One thing about the stove is that it want a decently strong draft. Are you seeing robust secondary combustion? Describe the flue setup. How is the stove vented, rear exit or straight up and out through the roof? How much chimney is on it?

That said, I too agree that the Oslo would be a better fit for 1600 sq ft., mostly for longer burn times.

 

[BHop]

Thanks to everyone for the comments.

Just split a piece and measured 17 percent moisture from the middle of the fresh split.

Any issues with running in the 650 range on this stove? I can push it a little and see if things change. I think there may be room for improvement on adjusting my loading times and temps to help a bit.

I am seeing some good used Oslo around me for the 1500 range. I can certainly switch if needed later in the winter or for next year. I have attached a photo of my setup.

Thanks

 

[claydogg84]

Thanks to everyone for the comments.

Just split a piece and measured 17 percent moisture from the middle of the fresh split.

Any issues with running in the 650 range on this stove? I can push it a little and see if things change. I think there may be room for improvement on adjusting my loading times and temps to help a bit.

I am seeing some good used Oslo around me for the 1500 range. I can certainly switch if needed later in the winter or for next year. I have attached a photo of my setup.

Thanks

You said you were running 525 - 600 stovetop temp - Is that on one of the corners, or the center ?

 

[BHop]

Clay dog- that was in the center.

 

[claydogg84]

Clay dog- that was in the center.

If the 400 is like it's bigger brothers, Jotul recommends placing a stovetop thermometer on one of the top corners (I use top right). I typically run my stove up to 550 or so and then start taking the air down. While my corner is 550, the center is easily 100 degrees warmer. This could be your issue. Check your manual and see where is suggests you take the temperature.

 

[Smoked]

Dumb question but Is that brick wall behind the stove an exterior wall? If so, I wonder if some kind of false wall behind it would help? Also, what is your primary heat?

 

[BHop]

If the 400 is like it's bigger brothers, Jotul recommends placing a stovetop thermometer on one of the top corners (I use top right). I typically run my stove up to 550 or so and then start taking the air down. While my corner is 550, the center is easily 100 degrees warmer. This could be your issue. Check your manual and see where is suggests you take the temperature.

Just checked the manual and it does recommend the corners. I just moved mine and it immediately dropped about 100 degrees as you mentioned. This could potentially make a world of difference at cruising temps. Thanks a lot for the help- simple mistake.

 

[BHop]

Dumb question but Is that brick wall behind the stove an exterior wall? If so, I wonder if some kind of false wall behind it would help? Also, what is your primary heat?

The brick wall goes to my attached garage. There is also another flue out there which the previous owner was using to burn. I don't see the value unless he was working out there. It was not tied into the ductwork in any way either.

Primary heat is electric heat pump- no gas available and the cost to install and run propane is prohibitive. Looking to suppliment a fair amount with the stove- maybe the Oslo would have been a better option in this case.

 

[claydogg84]

Just checked the manual and it does recommend the corners. I just moved mine and it immediately dropped about 100 degrees as you mentioned. This could potentially make a world of difference at cruising temps. Thanks a lot for the help- simple mistake.

I believe that will fix your problem. Good luck!

 

[BHop]

As others have mentioned the Castine may be a little underpowered to heat 1600 sq ft. We are part time heaters and have our Castine in a weekend house so we go through the big warm up cycle several times a week. We have a 1200 sq ft manufactured home with a open floor plan and stove centrally located. Great room/kitchen with all three bedrooms and baths having doors opening on the main room. We burn a lot of poplar since we had to cut down about eight trees and it is free and dry. Yesterday I went out to the house and started a fire with outside temp at 32 degrees and the house at 50 degrees. With the fire started at about 11:30 by 4:00 it was up to 70 degrees. That is with a ceiling fan on and fans blowing air from the bedrooms to the stove room. I did push the stove a little reloading when the firebox burned down to about half and lower 400's. If I had spent the night I would have backed off to complete burn cycles to keep the place from overheating. I could have run it up to 80 degrees easily. Last Winter we saw a number of nights that were -5 to -10 degrees F and once the house was warmed up the stove maintained the temperature easily. Unfortunately the poplar calls for a reload about 3AM. I am hoping for some better burn times next year with some dry oak, maple etc. With heating 33% more space with your 1600 sq ft and the eventual real winter and single digits the F400 might not cut it. My vote would be for the Oslo.

I have tried running my blower for my ductwork to move the air around since it is sealed and fully insulated but doesn't seems to make a difference either way. I don't have a lot of house fans but I do have the optional rear heat shield and blower kit.

I will put that on and see if the blower pushes the air.

 

[Boiler74]

A ceiling fan really helps get that heat down from the top of the room and mix up the air. Some use fans on the floor blowing towards the stove too. But I like the fan cause it's quiet.

One thing I learned on here to get the stove up to temp faster is to shut the air down sooner than seems right. If you limit the amount of air coming in you limit the amount of heat going up the chimney. More stays in the stove. Every set up is different but seems to work for my F600. I feel like I get longer burn times that way too.

 

[begreen]

Clay dog- that was in the center.

The stove temp is supposed to be measured to the sides. It is ok to run it at 650F with occasional peaks up to 700F. I think you will notice quite a difference in output and room heating running the stove hotter. You will also notice the wood burning down more quickly. The firebox is not large, but this stove can definitely put out some heat.

 

[claydogg84]

Update BHop? Curious if the higher temperatures got you the output you were looking for.

 

[BHop]

Just a quick update. Started a fire today at 6am. It was 21 degrees outside and 63 degrees inside. It took just shy of two hours to increase to 70 degrees in my main room. It was still rather cold in the rest of the house. I had mounted the rear heats shield and blower prior to starting. While running the ceiling fans in my bedrooms, the circulation fan on my ductwork and the blower it managed to push basically the rest of the house to 72 over the next three hours. The afternoon it increased outside to 45 and I pushed the stove room to 78 and held through now, 9pm.

Overall I am happy with today's results. Stove ran about 500 all day with the damper largely open and little adjusting. Now to get the house up to temp faster for the evenings after work. Thanks for the help and suggestions. Quite an improvement.

 

[xman23]

The Jotul cast iron stoves take a few full reloads and a bed of coals before you get a lot of heat. The top will get hot long before all the stove is hot. It takes a lot to raise the temp in the house. I found myself running the stove real hard trying to get a 45 degree house up to temp. Now we use a programmable theromostat to have the house at 65 when we get there. Much easier on the stove.

 

[rsw49]

I am curious that you mounted a blower on the F400. This is the first I have heard of that. Jotul does not list a blower as an option. Is it an after market part or something you made yourself?

 

[Woody Stover]

Now to get the house up to temp faster for the evenings after work.

I think the blower will make a difference. I can recover room temp a lot quicker using the blower, as opposed to just relying on the natural convection of the stove. My 2460 is a little different design than the radiant F400, though...