Is the brick eating my heat?!

[MagdalenaP]

It is to create a layer of insulating still air, between the hot & cold zones.

Are your windows cold to the touch? Should be all the indication needed. They are serving to radiate the cold of outside, directly to your indoors. The layout, and the stove being where it is, is really creating quite an 8 ball to be behind.

I think the plastic he means is the type that is directed touching the window (no air in between the plastic and glass).

To create an air gap using plastic that's completely sealed would be very hard to do, as the windows are massive, and the way the trim sits, it won't create a air tight seal, if that makes sense.

 

[maple1]

I think the plastic he means is the type that is directed touching the window (no air in between the plastic and glass).

To create an air gap using plastic that's completely sealed would be very hard to do, as the windows are massive, and the way the trim sits, it won't create a air tight seal, if that makes sense.

No, I don't think so. I have used the kits before when we were in a rental, the plastic goes around the outside (inside) of the frame. Leaving a space to the glass. That would be key. And they really did work well. That place had some questionable old windows though.

 

[SteveKG]

Ok, I have a somewhat similar set-up, except in that I am not attempting to heat any room other than the room the stove's in. In my case, I built an attached greenhouse with French doors into the kitchen. The walls are field stone up half way, then cedar shiplap above that. All walls insulated with fiberglass. The glass is double-paned. And I've had this set up since maybe the late-80s, so we have a long-experience with it.

The stove I have out there is a good heater. And when the fire goes out, the room begins to cool and in a couple hours can be chilly. The big, therm-paned windows [actually replacement patio-glass-door units, ten of them] transfer heat efficiently...to the outdoors. The stone walls and tile floor no doubt warm up some, but the re-radiation of heat from them is pretty much negligible in a human-comfort sense.

In short, I would be pretty unsuccessful trying to get much heat from that room into my main house. [Which has two other wood stoves and doesn't need the greenhouse heat anyway.]

All this to say I believe from my experience that you are basically able to provide heat to that one room with perhaps a little bit available to the house if you ran some fans to circulate air, but not very much net increase in house temp. Even if you were to invest in purchasing or making some good window coverings, you still would not have a great heat source for the house. Better, of course, but not great. Or, I don't think so.

Best bet is to relocate the stove to indoors if possible. A hassle, some cost, but you'd have heat in the living space.

One other thing: during the day, if it's sunny, my greenhouse can really heat up. No need for a stove then and I don't run it. I have a fan blowing air into my kitchen from there, and another fan blowing air back into the greenhouse, so a circulation going. This can heat up our house to the point we don't want any more heat, and we let the house stoves' fires go out. Then, at sundown, those fans need to be OFF. I have them on a thermostat, so no problem. In your room, I don't know whether you get any solar gain, as in my case there are glass panels overhead [it being a greenhouse].

As to your question whether a pane of glass is going to keep heat inside better than thin plastic sheeting, a little bit, emphasis on "little." Even double-paned windows let a lot of heat through them, not as much as single pane, but plenty.

 

[byQ]

Well put SteveKG. That is a nice space - great view, but that's a lot of glass. Glass is a horrible insulator because it is so thin. Do the math. Let's say your windows take up 50% of that wall and the other 50% of the wall is R-30. Say your glass is R-10 (doubtful), than your total r value for the wall is R-20. But I think in reality it is worse than R-20 because of the heat loop outside you are creating.

If it is south facing it probably gets hot when the sun is out and cold when the sun isn't out. The heat energy from the stove heats the glass which creates a cold air loop outside carrying the heat away (like an exterior chimney).

Like others have said, you could put a couple layers of plastic around the windows - thus lessening the heat loss loop. You would still get light, but your view wouldn't be as good.

Thermal shutters would be the best solution. Open them when the sun is out and close them when it isn't. This is the best of both worlds - you are adding the sun's energy through the south facing glass (into the brick wall) and than trapping it so it can't get out.

 

[jetsam]

The brick is not the problem. Heat absorbed there has nowhere else to go but back into the sunroom or, eventually, into the dining room.

Virtually all of your radiant heat is, um, radiating out into the cold, cold world. Double pane or not, radiant heat passes right through glass.

Rolling down the blinds at night would help a little (not a lot).

 

[Todd67]

I'm still wondering what direction those windows are facing. If they face north it won't get any direct sunlight during the winter months.

 

[maple1]

I'm still wondering what direction those windows are facing. If they face north it won't get any direct sunlight during the winter months.

If the clock on the wall is right, I'm guessing facing Southeast.

 

[MagdalenaP]

I'm still wondering what direction those windows are facing. If they face north it won't get any direct sunlight during the winter months.

They face east. So, a little morning sun...then nothing in the aft.

 

[Bad LP]

I thought about that, but isn't the point of that plastic to keep leaks out, rather than radiant heat from escaping? I mean, I would think thick glass would do a better job than a sheet of plastic...

When I built my house finishing went into the winter season The job had temporary heat via 2 Modines in the basement and before insulation and blueboard and plaster was complete the heat obviously was escaping into the attic area. We hung up a simple plastic sheet stapled to the outside walls and you would be shocked on how warm that job was.

A plastic hoop green house has a dead air space between the 2 sheets and we all know how warm those need to be. The farm next to me down here in MA was bragging how they were in summer weather while it was in the teens outside. They don't have a very large heater.

Maple1 is correct about the kits. Most every hardware store and home improvement center sells them. Short money to spend that would allow for testing or go large and replace the windows.

 

[bholler]

When I built my house finishing went into the winter season The job had temporary heat via 2 Modines in the basement and before insulation and blueboard and plaster was complete the heat obviously was escaping into the attic area. We hung up a simple plastic sheet stapled to the outside walls and you would be shocked on how warm that job was.

A plastic hoop green house has a dead air space between the 2 sheets and we all know how warm those need to be. The farm next to me down here in MA was bragging how they were in summer weather while it was in the teens outside. They don't have a very large heater.

Maple1 is correct about the kits. Most every hardware store and home improvement center sells them. Short money to spend that would allow for testing or go large and replace the windows.

But the plastic will do very little to block the radiant heat from the face of the stove.

 

[MagdalenaP]

I have "dead air" in my windows. There's two pieces of glass.

So you're saying add yet another space of dead air, but with plastic...and that should make a big difference?
I understand the greenhouses heating up, but after about 11am, there's no sun shining on the windows (and it's a standard roof).

 

[bholler]

I have "dead air" in my windows. There's two pieces of glass.

So you're saying add yet another space of dead air, but with plastic...and that should make a big difference?
I understand the greenhouses heating up, but after about 11am, there's no sun shining on the windows (and it's a standard roof).

It would help some yes. But it will do little to stop the loss of radiant heat. I am assuming the stove is facing the windows correct?

 

[MagdalenaP]

It would help some yes. But it will do little to stop the loss of radiant heat. I am assuming the stove is facing the windows correct?

So would it help some or do little? And what's the difference between those two? lol

Yes, unfortunately it's facing the windows.

I'm thinking thermal curtains, at least during the night they'd help more, and in the mornings during the summer, pricey but what else other than moving the stove is there to do?

 

[bholler]

So would it help some or do little? And what's the difference between those two? lol

Yes, unfortunately it's facing the windows.

I'm thinking thermal curtains, at least during the night they'd help more, and in the mornings during the summer, pricey but what else other than moving the stove is there to do?

It would help insulate the room better which is good. That will reduce the ammount of convective heat lost. But it wont help much at all in stopping the radiant heat off the front of the stove from going outside.

 

[MagdalenaP]

It would help insulate the room better which is good. That will reduce the ammount of convective heat lost. But it wont help much at all in stopping the radiant heat off the front of the stove from going outside.

What about installing something like a free standing tile/metal wall, about an inch away from the window, would it be worth it?

 

[maple1]

What about installing something like a free standing tile/metal wall, about an inch away from the window, would it be worth it?

Not IMO. Vs. good insulating curtains or blinds.

I think no matter what you do, it will be for a smallish gain. As long as the stove is where it is.

 

[blades]

there are films and coatings that do a midlin job of reflection radiant heat through glass -generally used in the reverse of what you need.

 

[Bad LP]

But the plastic will do very little to block the radiant heat from the face of the stove.

It would still allow the heat from the stove itself from rushing toward the windows. No?

Someday when I'm living permanently in Maine I will have a similar situation. Currently the room is unheated and closed off. (Think enclosed porch) The only place for a CI radiator or two is opposite a wall of nearly floor to ceiling glass, actually its 2 walls. The only option is FHW baseboard or panel radiators.

 

[tgumby4]

To confirm everyone's suspicions about the windows being the problem (which I agree) purchase a few sheets of 1\2 inch Styrofoam or R-max and cover the windows for a few days and see if it helps. Make sure it's attached with foil tape good so it can't fall on the wood stove. If you see a rise in temperature you will know for sure it's the windows. Shouldn't cost than $100.00 to find out for sure.

 

[wooduser]

It might be interesting to buy a few sheets of rigid insulation and cover the windows with it as an experiment. If it makes a marked difference you can use that as a guide when considering more permanent arrangements.

Glass is a poor insulator and single pane glass typically has an R value of 1. Double pane glass, an r value of 2. 1" of rigid foam insulation has an R value of about 5.

I see tgumby4 has exactly the same idea!


And if the rigid insulation keeps the temperatures up, it might start looking GOOD in a hurry!

 

[begreen]

We had a pair of 5' x 10' windows downstairs, facing north, that created the same issue. You can get a plastic, indoor storm window kit designed for large windows (like patio doors) that will cover each window in one sheet. You apply special double-stick tape to the inside frame, then carefully attach the plastic as snugly and wrinkle free as possible. The plastic is quite clear and thin and made of a special heat-shrink plastic. After trimming you gently heat the whole piece with a hair dryer and it shrinks tight as a drum. This is quite effective and the trapped air does make a difference in comfort. Even more insulation could be had with insulating one, two or three cell shades. The one and two cell shades in white still allow some light to come through.

That said, as noted in other threads, the stove is an area heater and it's currently in the wrong area.

 

[coutufr]

Maybe you could break the wall around the window on the left. Put 2 x45 and put the stove there facing towards the dining room. Then put a box fan behind pushing the heat inside the house. The other door will act as a cold air return. Any heat in the porch will quickly leave through the floor, the windows and the ceiling because of poor insulation. Also I am not a big fan of curtains because of condensation. When it is below -10c it can get full of ice overnight

 

[Dobish]

you can take some small bubble wrap, a spray bottle with water, and apply the bubble wrap to the windows. They will stay there for a while (surface tension is amazing!) you still get light through, but it makes a difference with the insulation!

https://www.greenoptimistic.com/bubble-wrap-insulation-window/