Is my Summit working right?

[ICY99]

Just for comparison.... I have a freestanding summit and when I reload or open the door, I usually get some smoke into the house. I do not have trouble getting the stove up to temp and am happy with it. I don't think I have a draft issue either. If I don't have a nice big coal bed when I reload then I use a ton of kindling mixed with splits to get 'er going, otherwise it will limp along just like you describe.

 

[TynMahn]

I don't get smoke in the house when I open the door. Even when I first start the fire and it is at it's smokiest, very little smoke ever enters the house. Therefore, I know that it draws; it just doesn't seem to draw hard enough. Plus, like a proper fire in a stove, once the fire is going, the fire produces very little to no visible smoke to come into the house when the doors are open.

I remember, with my old front dual spin down damper wood stove, I would start a little fire with kindling, stoke it, shut the doors and spin the dampers down a hair and the fire would literaly take off becuase of the air blowing over it. Then I'd spin them down to about 1/3 open and let it burn.

This doesn't work like that. It acts like it has a hard time breathing which is what makes me think it is just not drawing hard enough.

 

[begreen]

Our T6 burns radically different than our Jotul 602 for the same reason. In the 602, the air is directed straight at the base of the fire. Open up the draft and it's a little furnace. The T6 is not at all like that. The air control doesn't admit big gulps of air directly at the front base of the fire. Instead it much more gently washes past the glass and down toward the fire.

That said, with good starting wood - dry 3-4" softwood splits set N/S with about a 3" gap between them, filled with newspaper and dry kindling, this stove takes off quickly.

 

[tcassavaugh]

I was torn between buying the Jotul F-600 but i convinced myself into buying the Pacific Energy Summit. In my humble opinion it was a big mistake. I have a small Jotul F 3 CB and love it. The Summit is slow to light, doesn't start as quick and is a pain to clean without any ash bin that even comes close to Summit. On the positive side, it does take a good load of wood, north to south, has a kind of cigar burn and does burn overnight. It coals remarkably well and is pleasant to watch while burning. I have the blower installed and even bought the "ash pan" with the little 2 x 2 in trap door.....I don't think I'd waste the money again. Too many coals and not enough ash go into it and not enough ash

Its not like I'm new to wood burning, I've had a Large Consolidated Dutchwest catalytic stove for years and a medium Adirondack before that. Burning the summit is certainly different and requires some extra attention. Mine also gives some smoke back while the door is open in the loading process.

If I had it to do over, i'd pick the Jutul

tcassavaugh

 

[ICY99]

The Summit definitely does NOT do a good job at burning down coals. And, in the coaling stage, it puts out relatively little heat. I'm sure there are better stoves out there.

 

[TynMahn]

With seasoned wood, I have been able to make the thing work...to an extent.

It does NOT seem to get enough air at all. I have to burn the thing wide open constantly; there is not worry of "over-firing the box" by leaving the damper open too high too long.

As for coals, indeed, as a result of the insufficient air movement in the box, coals are a real problem. I have to open the door slightly and rake the coals several times over a period of several minutes after each burn to get them to burn down before I am able to build another fire.

This has been a most disappointing experience.

Since, because of the design of the fireplace, the fire exhausts from the front, it would have made more sense to have the main air holes in the REAR of the stove not the front. This would have helped generate an air bath over the coals and helped facilitate their cumbustion.

-edit: One more draw back to this stove is the fan. It is extremely LOUD and it rattles like crazy. PE should seriously look into some design changes. This is a major drawback as the stove is going in as a center piece of sorts in a living area. But with the fan, loud by its design and made even more annoying by the poor duct design rattling around, dissrupts the room in which the stove is located. I understand that a fan moving such volume is going to make some noise but come on, it doesn't have to be that loud and certainly shouldn't rattle around like that.

 

[Wacky1]

With seasoned wood, I have been able to make the thing work...to an extent.

It does NOT seem to get enough air at all. I have to burn the thing wide open constantly; there is not worry of "over-firing the box" by leaving the damper open too high too long.

As for coals, indeed, as a result of the insufficient air movement in the box, coals are a real problem. I have to open the door slightly and rake the coals several times over a period of several minutes after each burn to get them to burn down before I am able to build another fire.

This has been a most disappointing experience.

Since, because of the design of the fireplace, the fire exhausts from the front, it would have made more sense to have the main air holes in the REAR of the stove not the front. This would have helped generate an air bath over the coals and helped facilitate their cumbustion.

-edit: One more draw back to this stove is the fan. It is extremely LOUD and it rattles like crazy. PE should seriously look into some design changes. This is a major drawback as the stove is going in as a center piece of sorts in a living area. But with the fan, loud by its design and made even more annoying by the poor duct design rattling around, dissrupts the room in which the stove is located. I understand that a fan moving such volume is going to make some noise but come on, it doesn't have to be that loud and certainly shouldn't rattle around like that.

I was having the same problem initially. And then I just learned by trial and error. Here is what I have done... I load with red oak as much as I can fit on top of the existing coals. Wait about 15-20 min when the fire is hot and coaling the wood, I shut it down to the halfway, where there seems to be a little step when you slide the air control to the right. Then watch for the secondary burn to see if it is hot enough. The problem I am having now is the fire has to be hot to get my house up to 60 in the furthest room in my house, which is only 1500'. It has been in the low 10s here lately at night and I usually will have to reload after about 4 hrs. to keep the temps up. The best way I have found, as of yet, to burn the coals is to open the air to "start" put a log of poplar on top and it seems to work okay, but at the same time the temp is dropping in the house. So far I have been doing all right with the burn times, the colder it is the hotter the fire, the shorter the burn times with lots of coals. I have posted another thread about the creosote at the top of the chimney that fell into the baffle and burned at, I am guessing, 2000 degrees and started to make the top of my insert in the center, near the chimney, glowing red, all the while, the front of the insert remained at 700 which I thought was a good temp, but people here have been experiencing cracked fireboxes. So now I am concerned that I may have "overfired" the firebox. Since then, I have kept the temps around 550-600 with the noisey fan running constantly to keep the house tolerable, but not warm. I have read somewhere that the PE Summits were hard to "overfire" but I guess that is not the case with mine.

 

[begreen]

With seasoned wood, I have been able to make the thing work...to an extent.

It does NOT seem to get enough air at all. I have to burn the thing wide open constantly; there is not worry of "over-firing the box" by leaving the damper open too high too long.

As for coals, indeed, as a result of the insufficient air movement in the box, coals are a real problem. I have to open the door slightly and rake the coals several times over a period of several minutes after each burn to get them to burn down before I am able to build another fire.

This has been a most disappointing experience.

Since, because of the design of the fireplace, the fire exhausts from the front, it would have made more sense to have the main air holes in the REAR of the stove not the front. This would have helped generate an air bath over the coals and helped facilitate their cumbustion.

-edit: One more draw back to this stove is the fan. It is extremely LOUD and it rattles like crazy. PE should seriously look into some design changes. This is a major drawback as the stove is going in as a center piece of sorts in a living area. But with the fan, loud by its design and made even more annoying by the poor duct design rattling around, dissrupts the room in which the stove is located. I understand that a fan moving such volume is going to make some noise but come on, it doesn't have to be that loud and certainly shouldn't rattle around like that.

Something isn't right there. Either the wood is not really seasoned well or there is a lack of draft. Or low air because the knockout hasn't been removed.

Sounds like something is loose back on the heat shield. Go around back of the stove and tighten up the screws. Unless ours is running at full speed you can barely hear it.

 

[TynMahn]

Maybe the wood could use more seasoning, I don't know. As far as the knock out is concerned, it was removed upon installation. The thing heats the house well enough. We just went through a pretty nasty stint of low temperatures, 10 and below with nasty wind chills for several days, and it did alright. But the coals man, it's a pain. As I said before, in a regular wood stove, coals were mostly a plus. A good coal bed meant a nice even burn for at-least an hour or more, but in this thing, they just don't get enough air and burn too coolly to put off sufficient heat and have trouble burning completely.

Anyway, this whole "cracking the box" business concerns me. I mean, what do you have to do to accomplish this? And how are you having creosote problems? Mine seems to burn fairly cleanly. Maybe I need to check out the top of the liner next nice day and make sure it is still clean.

 

[moosetrek]

We had the same prob with coals someone at PE suggested the coals might be from too much draft in the chimney - if you have a flue damper, close it down a bit. Worked well for us, we now have a lot less coals. I guess there was too much airflow and it wasn't hanging around to burn the coals maybe slowing it down helped.

 

[Hogwildz]

If the stove is coaling, its not the stove, its the wood or the draft.
If the stove is not getting up to temp, its not the stove, its the wood or its the draft.
The stove is merely a vessel to burn the load the load of wood in. Your problem is draft &/or wood that is not as dry as you think.
You can't blame a stove for poor draft, blame the stack. Not just this stove, but any stove.
The draft and strength of draft determines quit a bit how the fuel burns. EPA stoves by factory set up cannot have the air shut completely off to meet EPA standards.
I have seen about 2 stoves on here that had a defect that kept the stove from operating properly. Not common between the two stoves, and/or to those specific stoves.
98% of he issues end up being wood that really is NOT near as ready as the burner thinks, stack draft problems, or simply operator error/inexperience for the newer stove.
Some are new, some are "seasoned" wood burners.
When a majority of users using any brand or model of wood burner, are having fine success, its not the stove, its the set up, the wood, &/or the person burning.

 

[Hogwildz]

One other note,
If you load the stove completely with Oak, its going to have a crap load of coals, no two ways around it.
I did the same thing my first year. You can pull the coals all to across the front, and mine here will burn another couple hours at least at around 400 or so degrees. At 5 degrees out, no it wont keep the house up at 72 degrees by coals alone.
You can also try scooping the coals in a row front to back in the middle of the stove, and put a split on each side and one over the top to tunnel burn the coals.
If you load some oak and some other species, I been using cherry, walnut etc. You won't have as many oak coals and they will burn down more even & faster with less oak in there.
I honestly do not notice much of a loss of burn time or temp for not loading with all oak. But have eliminated much of the coaling issue.
The stove is an appliance, if the operator doesn't learn that stove, and assumes it burns like the last stove you owned. Unless that last stove is the same stove, your in for some grief.
The stove will only burn as well as it is set up , exhausted, drafts & how well the wood is burned. Take the time, learn how the new stove works, take the patience to do so. Or go buy an old smoke dragon and load the sheet out of it, burn it till it clanks, cracks & falls apart. Or shoots jet flames out your stack. Oh yeah, and figure 2x the wood for each year give or take some.
Is it me or is this the year for the most complaints about all brands of stoves not burning right? "Its the stove, it is not burning right, not as I expect, and I am disappointed".
I sense more folks this year, just threw a stove in, threw wood in it, and wanted instant gratification. "This is not how I remember granpa's stove burning".
Not says all folks are this way, just seems like more this year than the other years I been on here.
Take the time, learn the stove, find the sweet spot, or just go get a pellet stove with a dial on it, fill the hopper and plug it in. But they need some attention too.

 

[CK-1]

When I open my PE Summit all the way up when starting a new fire, I can see some of the ash in the front of the stove being blown to the back. Thats how I know she is getting a good supply of air. When my ash bed is getting a little high, a bed of coals really comes in handy. Using the shovel I mix the coals with the ash to burn the ash down so I won't have to empty as often. Starting a new fire hasn't been a problem since I installed a full-liner w/insulation..

 

[moosetrek]

One other note,
Is it me or is this the year for the most complaints about all brands of stoves not burning right? "Its the stove, it is not burning right, not as I expect, and I am disappointed".
I sense more folks this year, just threw a stove in, threw wood in it, and wanted instant gratification. "This is not how I remember granpa's stove burning".
Not says all folks are this way, just seems like more this year than the other years I been on here.
Take the time, learn the stove, find the sweet spot, or just go get a pellet stove with a dial on it, fill the hopper and plug it in. But they need some attention too.

As one of the great unwashed to whom you refer (and to whom you instructed to seek Ritalin), I want to offer a couple comments. Many folks here have ZERO access to see these stoves in person, let alone in operation prior to buying. They come to this forum as a source of collective information far in excess of that available at a local shop. Some parts of the country the nearest shop is 70-200 miles, and the dealer may be a body shop most of the time. Bottom line, please don't assume that all of those seeking advice, or not completely satisfied with a purchase, are seeking a perfect stove that worked like the last one only better. And don't assume, as implied above, that most are new to burning and just threw a stove in and want instant gratification. Most are just looking for help, though perhaps not phrasing it right for you.

In our case, we were in fact not correctly using the stove and had the same experience as the OP. We had a stove that heated us out, swapped it for a great stove based on input and recommendations, and were frustrated when the stove didn't perform as we anticipated BASED ON THE AVAILABLE DATA (hearth.com posts, reviews, knowledge of their home design, construction, and wood supply). Following suggestions of those on here is an excellent resource for getting to the heart of the problem, and in our case enlightened us to major issues with our home insulation which needed remedy regardless of stove. That said we have also learned how to get massive heat from the stove, the same firebox as the OP. If we, or anyone else, are disatisfied with the performance having ruled out the stove as a factor, I don't think we should be encouraged to give up and go buy a pellet stove. Folks on here want to heat with wood, and helping educate them, as most of your posts do, helps build a better forum and community - please consider how your comments come across to those who are frustrated with a very expensive investment in their homes, and want to make sure that investment is satisfying and worthwhile. Now back to the topic...

 

[madison]

hijack, moose, so you finally got things straightened out? What did you do that (or what thingS) did you do that helped with your situation? Could it help these folks? Oh and did you try turning it into a hybrid t6/summit by removing the cast sides?

 

[TynMahn]

I have found, as one of the original post said, that dry wood (I mean seriously seasoned wood) does in fact make a huge difference. The noisy fan that rattles isn't fixed by this, but the thing DOES burn fairly well with seasoned wood. I was burning wood that was cut about 16 months ago and wasn't quite dry enough yet. Never been much of an issue before, but with this stove, it makes a huge difference. If you stack in some good dry wood, it burns just fine and you do indeed have to crank the damper down.

I have come to the conclusion that I will have to get 2 maybe 3 seasons ahead from hence forth. The coals on the other hand are still an issue but trial and error and help from people on this board will hopefully solve this out.

 

[moosetrek]

Tin Man, sounds like you got it going ok then? The fan issue should definitely be addressed, that's no fun. While there are several that have different opinions on the noise level of the PE blowers, no one seems to have rattling issues that can't be fixed by tightening up a couple things - having seen the way it mounts on the stove, I think that a couple extra brackets would help the design if the insert is the same way? Someone used a quarter wedged in theirs to stop the rattle too... whatever ya gotta do I guess!

 

[moosetrek]

hijack, moose, so you finally got things straightened out? What did you do that (or what thingS) did you do that helped with your situation? Could it help these folks? Oh and did you try turning it into a hybrid t6/summit by removing the cast sides?

Probably not too much help here - I think we're leaning toward swapping the T6 for a Summit to get the thinner side shields and exposed top to boost radiant heat. Otherwise we love the PE, and want to keep with it. We are now having no issue getting the heat out of the stove, especially after learning that it is designed to burn at 750-800 to generate serious heat. It's sort of like an engine, I suppose - you can't use it effectively until you know what RPM the horsepower/torque is generated at. For this stove (and all others), as has been mentioned, it's a logarithmic increase of heat up to a point. The difference between 550, 650, and 750 is HUGE. Maybe that's part of Tin Man's issue as well? If it hits hitting 750 when you back it off, you're making serious heat. As in our case, that heat goes SOMEWHERE... Hopefully into the room, but if it's getting lost then solve that part first.

 

[Hogwildz]

Moos,
The Summit is going to be very similar heat and output as the 30 you felt was too overpowering.
When You had the 30, did you have the side shields on it? And did that help at all with the "overpowering" feeling of too much heat?

 

[iceman]

as each year passes i learn more and more on how to operate my stove.... with a summit you get long burn times, but you need to know those times... i know if i pack it full with oak i cannnot reload it in 8 hrs because the coal bed will prolly be 4 inches thick in which case i will never burn that down completely - unless i only put in 3-4 splits and wait at least 6hrs.. which doesnt work for me... if i want to load my stove up AND reload in under 10 hrs i have to let it burn with the lever under the "L" this will give it enough air so that in 8 hrs there will be a minimal amount of coals.... this is all dependent on how dry my wood is....if the wood is not perfectly dry i will still have about 2 inches of coals...
now if i pack a full load with dry oak and shut the air off, i know not to touch that thing for 10-12 hrs or be stuck with a lotta coals....
before you give up experiment, but understand each year will get better as you learn YOUR stove better,--- we simple can tell you what we did as place for you to start but in the end each person (and stove) will operate a little different to get the best performance...

 

[Hogwildz]

as each year passes i learn more and more on how to operate my stove.... with a summit you get long burn times, but you need to know those times... i know if i pack it full with oak i cannnot reload it in 8 hrs because the coal bed will prolly be 4 inches thick in which case i will never burn that down completely - unless i only put in 3-4 splits and wait at least 6hrs.. which doesnt work for me... if i want to load my stove up AND reload in under 10 hrs i have to let it burn with the lever under the "L" this will give it enough air so that in 8 hrs there will be a minimal amount of coals.... this is all dependent on how dry my wood is....if the wood is not perfectly dry i will still have about 2 inches of coals...
now if i pack a full load with dry oak and shut the air off, i know not to touch that thing for 10-12 hrs or be stuck with a lotta coals....
before you give up experiment, but understand each year will get better as you learn YOUR stove better,--- we simple can tell you what we did as place for you to start but in the end each person (and stove) will operate a little different to get the best performance...

x2, if you mix a few pcs of Oak with some maple or a "softer" "less coaling" hardwood, I found it works much better in my situation. Without the penalty of shorter burn times or less heat.

 

[Cire3]

Only thing I could add is NOT to use the 8" pipe. I have a Regency 2400 and tried to use my 8" pipe. Killed the draft with the larger pipe... Larger pipe has more volume but slower moving because I didn't exhaust like my old smoking dragon. The new EPA stoves don;t exhaust like the old one.

My issue was wood, did you try the 2x4's ? I'm interested to see how it acted with "known good wood" I thought I was dried and seasoned enough too. I say try the 2x4's and see it rip