invest plant trees, to burn in 20 years

[Prometeo]

Don't overlook small, dead trees, either still standing with the bark falling off, or fallen ones that are up off the ground. It takes a little longer to gather a pile of, than if you're splitting big rounds, but that small stuff will in most cases be dry enough to burn immediately.
A friend recently moved into a new-to-him house and got a stove a couple months back, and I've been sending carloads of it back home with him every week, until he can build up his stock of dry wood. I told him to contact a tree guy who will drop soft Maple at his place..that stuff will dry in a year. Once he's a couple years ahead on his supply, he can start adding Oak or other longer-burning woods that need more time to dry.
Quercus cerris AKA Turkey Oak. ("Turkey Oak" in my Audubon Guide, North America, is a different species, though..??)
The rounded lobes of the leaves of your specie would point to this being in the White Oak group...if so, I'd think it should have high BTU output, almost equal to that of Hickory. Have you burned it? Does it burn long? If it grows well there, and fast as you say, I would spread more acorn from that around and get more of them growing.

HI, that's what I did today, found a lot of good stuff, I was prompted that this forest is 1000 meters above sea level, Curious to try this denser wood!

 

[Woody Stover]

HI, that's what I did today, found a lot of good stuff, I was prompted that this forest is 1000 meters above sea level, Curious to try this denser wood!

Could you tell what species those were, or just that some of it was heavy? Did you test it with a moisture meter, on a fresh split? If you don't have a meter, just toss a small split on on a hot bed of coals and see if it bubbles moisture out the end, or just gets wet-looking on the end or hisses.

 

[Prometeo]

Could you tell what species those were, or just that some of it was heavy? Did you test it with a moisture meter, on a fresh split? If you don't have a meter, just toss a small split on on a hot bed of coals and see if it bubbles moisture out the end, or just gets wet-looking on the end or hisses.

This forest, very large, is mainly about oak family, different breeds of oaks, from tall ones with few branches, which should be quercus cerris, to normal oak macrocarpa, or similar, and then there are patches here and there of pines, both in many areas they are large, 30 meters. Yes, the hygrometer is in my possession but I didn't measure today, I threw small pieces into the stove, which felt old in my hand, but hard and dry, and immediately secondary fire began, I did not notice the classic wet wood frying, but some yes, surely they are damp, of those I have collected, because too close to the earth, and I noticed this, while I was picking. I suppose that actually these woods are more tenacious, because little pieces that you normally break on your knees, you couldn't in that area. I sighted at least 5 other big trees on the ground!

 

[Prometeo]

Could you tell what species those were, or just that some of it was heavy? Did you test it with a moisture meter, on a fresh split? If you don't have a meter, just toss a small split on on a hot bed of coals and see if it bubbles moisture out the end, or just gets wet-looking on the end or hisses.

hi, test them, on fresh cut

 

[Kwolt]

Thank you. Speaking of which, when should the cut take place? Because sometimes we notice lush regrowth and sometimes nothing, always talking about the quercus family

Cut in the dormant season when all the energy is stored in the roots. Older trees may not sprout from the stump as well as younger trees.

 

[TomMcDonald]

Eucalyptus.
If you're in a hot and dry climate in Italy I would suggest eucalyptus. There are various species that can fit your climate. They grow fast, dense and tall.
You can interplant with wattles/acacias too.

Designing for profit

Eucalypts can add income by providing various wood products for use on the farm or for sale. Income can be generated in a two ways; Harvest a proportion of the indigenous eucalypts for...

www.recreatingthecountry.com.au

 

[Prometeo]

Eucalyptus.
If you're in a hot and dry climate in Italy I would suggest eucalyptus. There are various species that can fit your climate. They grow fast, dense and tall.
You can interplant with wattles/acacias too.

Designing for profit

Eucalypts can add income by providing various wood products for use on the farm or for sale. Income can be generated in a two ways; Harvest a proportion of the indigenous eucalypts for...

www.recreatingthecountry.com.au

Thank you. I put this, which is also very resistant to frost, 4 plants, I'll see in spring and summer if it starts to grow!

Eucalyptus gunnii - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Ashful]

Most good hardwood trees near this age are growing at a rate of 1 inch diameter per 3 to 5 years. You're only looking at 5" diameter trees after 20 years, perhaps an inch more depending on the stock from which you start (not seeds!).

Pushing toward the faster-growing end of the spectrum (1 inch per 3 years), you're really only trading volume for BTU content, as the faster-growing species are generally lower BTU.

Estimate a Tree's Age Without Cutting It Down

Here is a method to estimate a tree's age without cutting. Noninvasive measurements can get you an acceptable age estimate for forest-grown trees.

www.treehugger.com

The land is likely a good investment, and if you can get any wood off it, I guess that's a minor bonus. But I wouldn't be looking at 20 year trees as any legitimate investment.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Remember, if you cut a tree down you better be prepared for the OPENNESS you will feel afterwards in that spot. It really changes the landscape, and NOT for the better. Ive had a couple of neighbors that had cool little cabins, they cut trees down around their place - now they just look like shacks in a field.
I get doing it for safety reasons, but a decent arborist can assist with which ones should go and which ones would required a cat 5 hurricane to blow over.

 

[Prometeo]

Most good hardwood trees near this age are growing at a rate of 1 inch diameter per 3 to 5 years. You're only looking at 5" diameter trees after 20 years, perhaps an inch more depending on the stock from which you start (not seeds!).

Pushing toward the faster-growing end of the spectrum (1 inch per 3 years), you're really only trading volume for BTU content, as the faster-growing species are generally lower BTU.

Estimate a Tree's Age Without Cutting It Down

Here is a method to estimate a tree's age without cutting. Noninvasive measurements can get you an acceptable age estimate for forest-grown trees.

www.treehugger.com

The land is likely a good investment, and if you can get any wood off it, I guess that's a minor bonus. But I wouldn't be looking at 20 year trees as any legitimate investment.

Thank you, very interesting, the fact is that there is a lot of information, sometimes conflicting and species of a tree family, even a lot. I had read in a UK forum that eucalyptus was better than oak, and wanted to give it a try! I will continue searching also thanks to your link👍

 

[Prometeo]

Remember, if you cut a tree down you better be prepared for the OPENNESS you will feel afterwards in that spot. It really changes the landscape, and NOT for the better. Ive had a couple of neighbors that had cool little cabins, they cut trees down around their place - now they just look like shacks in a field.
I get doing it for safety reasons, but a decent arborist can assist with which ones should go and which ones would required a cat 5 hurricane to blow over.

around my house, I left as many trees as I could, pine, big cupressus and others. Some say cut this and that, I say no. I planted cedar lebanon, ginko, these are for beauty. Where I put trees for wood to burn is 200 meters away. My plan is also to thin out a forest, to let more sun arrive the newly arrived small trees

 

[Ashful]

Thank you, very interesting, the fact is that there is a lot of information, sometimes conflicting and species of a tree family, even a lot. I had read in a UK forum that eucalyptus was better than oak, and wanted to give it a try! I will continue searching also thanks to your link👍

The conflicting info probably just reflects the wide range of growing conditions, as sunlight, temperature, water, and fertilization all nudge the numbers. I have planted 100 trees on my little 4 acres since moving in, and have irrigation on most of them. I have some river birch and elms that have shot up from 8 feet to more than 40 feet in just 7 years, but I fertilize them twice per year and keep irrigation on them twice per week during our dry summer months. A few others that a neighbor allowed me to place on their property, to block a third neighbor from our collective view, are growing at maybe half that rate, without irrigation.

Eucalyptus is one we don't have around here. Never really looked at it, but it's lack of prevalence must be an indicator it's unsuitable for my climate.

edit: Forgot you were in Italy. 3.28 feet per meter, so my birch went from roughly 2.5 meters up to 14 meters in 7 years.

 

[Prometeo]

The conflicting info probably just reflects the wide range of growing conditions, as sunlight, temperature, water, and fertilization all nudge the numbers. I have planted 100 trees on my little 4 acres since moving in, and have irrigation on most of them. I have some river birch and elms that have shot up from 8 feet to more than 40 feet in just 7 years, but I fertilize them twice per year and keep irrigation on them twice per week during our dry summer months. A few others that a neighbor allowed me to place on their property, to block a third neighbor from our collective view, are growing at maybe half that rate, without irrigation.

Eucalyptus is one we don't have around here. Never really looked at it, but it's lack of prevalence must be an indicator it's unsuitable for my climate.

edit: Forgot you were in Italy. 3.28 feet per meter, so my birch went from roughly 2.5 meters up to 14 meters in 7 years.

Thanks for the conversion! You got a good result, but what an effort, watering, fertilizing. These trees you have planted have a very superficial root system, and therefore need water, I would also try a suitable type of oak, which has very deep roots, should feel less drought. I have clay soil, compact, calcareous, it should be worked with something like ash, to improve aeration, and reduce the alkaline ph. That way it would become good for growth, which is very slow now it seems.
A cedar of Lebanon, planted two years ago, is about the same.
To defuse we say that if it's not growing up, it's growing down!

 

[Ashful]

Thanks for the conversion! You got a good result, but what an effort, watering, fertilizing. These trees you have planted have a very superficial root system, and therefore need water,

Different goals. I'm trying to grow a quick forest to block out new construction, not create a firewood investment lot. But root system can be improved with fertilization method, and irrigation is only used to push growth through the driest (also some of the hottest) weeks of the year.

But make no mistake, it's not much effort. Irrigation system is on automatic timer, and runs every morning before anyone in the house is awake. I had some early frustration with solenoid valve malfunctions, resolved by installing a better filtration system on our well, but the thing runs with no interaction from me. Likewise, fertilization consists of driving ~100 spikes into the ground twice per year and tossing a few bags of HollyTone under the evergreens on the same schedule. Hardly two or three hours work, only twice per year. Well worth it to more than double the growth rate on a privacy barrier, in order to enjoy it while I'm living here, rather than only as benefit to the next owner of this house.

 

[Prometeo]

Different goals. I'm trying to grow a quick forest to block out new construction, not create a firewood investment lot. But root system can be improved with fertilization method, and irrigation is only used to push growth through the driest (also some of the hottest) weeks of the year.

But make no mistake, it's not much effort. Irrigation system is on automatic timer, and runs every morning before anyone in the house is awake. I had some early frustration with solenoid valve malfunctions, resolved by installing a better filtration system on our well, but the thing runs with no interaction from me. Likewise, fertilization consists of driving ~100 spikes into the ground twice per year and tossing a few bags of HollyTone under the evergreens on the same schedule. Hardly two or three hours work, only twice per year. Well worth it to more than double the growth rate on a privacy barrier, in order to enjoy it while I'm living here, rather than only as benefit to the next owner of this house.

Now I understand! A curiosity, if it's for privacy, why didn't you opt for trees evergreen ? Perhaps, to penetrate rays of the sun in winter, I imagine. I also made this speech, I don't want shade in winter near my house.

Some here, to create privacy, they use hedge " Prunus laurocerasus " grows fast in any condition, evergreen, dense, but it is necessary to model often for its strong growth

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

hello everyone and happy 2023. I have land which I have earmarked for trees. I have elms, oaks, and small locust trees. I would like to continue planting varieties to be cut in 20-25 years, that are good growing, hardy, and good btus ratio. I'm near the river humidity is always present, exposure, quite good which trees do you recommend?
thanks

I like your idea. I've had a similar one. I was planning on a plantation of locust, probably black. I've found them to be fast growing and adaptable to different soil types, particularly poor soil. It's excellent firewood and quite rot resistant. It's also a legume, so it fixes nitrogen into the soil and improves the soil for everything else. It's rot resistance makes it good for fenceposts and other applications outside.

Just a quick note about Osage orange- the branches have very nasty sharp spines. I collected a few hundred seedpods with the intent of growing a living fence. When the first batch of seeds sprouted, I encountered the spines and decided that I didn't want to have a bunch of the hostile plants all over my property. I got rid of all the seedlings.

 

[Prometeo]

I like your idea. I've had a similar one. I was planning on a plantation of locust, probably black. I've found them to be fast growing and adaptable to different soil types, particularly poor soil. It's excellent firewood and quite rot resistant. It's also a legume, so it fixes nitrogen into the soil and improves the soil for everything else. It's rot resistance makes it good for fenceposts and other applications outside.

Just a quick note about Osage orange- the branches have very nasty sharp spines. I collected a few hundred seedpods with the intent of growing a living fence. When the first batch of seeds sprouted, I encountered the spines and decided that I didn't want to have a bunch of the hostile plants all over my property. I got rid of all the seedlings.

hello, what a pity! I've never burned osage orange, but if it's so good, I would never throw. Thorns protect, the place where I grow these trees, to burn, it is a wild boar passage area, once I found an evergreen oak torn away and every time I go to check, I fear that other plants have disappeared!

 

[Ashful]

Now I understand! A curiosity, if it's for privacy, why didn't you opt for trees evergreen ?

I did! I started with 42 Norway Spruce on the neighboring side of the property line, before that lot sold to the new owner. Then I layered in two staggered rows of Leyland Cypress (fast growing, but short lived), fronted by two rows of hemlock, under an existing canopy of mixed walnut, maple, ash, and cherry. In front of that, I placed oaks, elms, birch, redbud, and a half dozen fruit-bearing trees. In areas where there were no walnuts, I sub'd more Norway Spruce instead of Leylands (Norways don't like walnut), and I sub'd a row of green giant Arborvitae in areas where neither of those would work.

At time of planting, all evergreens were 8 - 12 feet (2.4 - 3.7 meter) tall, and the deciduous trees were all 10 - 14 feet (3.0 - 4.3 meter) tall, which was done in phases 2013 - 2020. This "garden" built between my yard and the newly-built house behind me varies from 40 to 100 feet (12 to 30 meter) deep, over a 300 foot (90 meter) section of our property line.

After that, I scattered another dozen oaks, elms, and hawthorns around the yard, in areas left open by things taken down by hurricanes Irene and Sandy. This was a residential yard project, albeit a rather large residential yard, not a wood lot.

 

[Prometeo]

I did! I started with 42 Norway Spruce on the neighboring side of the property line, before that lot sold to the new owner. Then I layered in two staggered rows of Leyland Cypress (fast growing, but short lived), fronted by two rows of hemlock, under an existing canopy of mixed walnut, maple, ash, and cherry. In front of that, I placed oaks, elms, birch, redbud, and a half dozen fruit-bearing trees. In areas where there were no walnuts, I sub'd more Norway Spruce instead of Leylands (Norways don't like walnut), and I sub'd a row of green giant Arborvitae in areas where neither of those would work.

At time of planting, all evergreens were 8 - 12 feet (2.4 - 3.7 meter) tall, and the deciduous trees were all 10 - 14 feet (3.0 - 4.3 meter) tall, which was done in phases 2013 - 2020. This "garden" built between my yard and the newly-built house behind me varies from 40 to 100 feet (12 to 30 meter) deep, over a 300 foot (90 meter) section of our property line.

After that, I scattered another dozen oaks, elms, and hawthorns around the yard, in areas left open by things taken down by hurricanes Irene and Sandy. This was a residential yard project, albeit a rather large residential yard, not a wood lot.

You have created a lot of privacy, I imagine a green wall on the borders! 👍
I have a similar plan too, the conformation of this territory, suggests to put tall trees ( i think cupressus sempervirens ) and then less high, gradually to the south, fruit trees, as much as possible. Around the house instead I will soon have to plant weeping willows, which are very fast, and great for shade in the summer.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Be careful with the willows. As they get larger, they will drop a lot of branches and create a mess.

 

[Ashful]

Where is the property located, @Mirco22 ?

 

[Prometeo]

Where is the property located, @Mirco22 ?

Hi, the town is named Busso, center of Italy about as you can see

 

[Prometeo]

Be careful with the willows. As they get larger, they will drop a lot of branches and create a mess.

Real, normally here people shorten the branches to avoid breakage, and to give shape, however the trouble with this tree is what you don't see, roots, absolutely keep away from septic tanks, pipes where water passes, it could enter!

 

[Ashful]

Hi, the town is named Busso, center of Italy about as you can see

View attachment 309454

Did a real quick search, but not finding any easily-compiled climate data in English for this town. Closest we can find is Naples, which being coastal, is probably a bit different. Wanted to see what American climate it might reflect, in temperature, hours sunlight, and annual rainfall.

 

[Prometeo]

Did a real quick search, but not finding any easily-compiled climate data in English for this town. Closest we can find is Naples, which being coastal, is probably a bit different. Wanted to see what American climate it might reflect, in temperature, hours sunlight, and annual rainfall.

wow, thank you very much, if possible try to see " Campobasso " it is our province and practically the same as my city. Naples, it's warmer enough, they can grow lemons, oranges, here it is impossible.