- In search of a proper pellet stove

[F4jock]

Be careful in your plans for moving heat from a pellet stove via ducts, particularly if you are now trying to go in the opposite direction. Many find difficulties with this. You may find you have a bit of natural movement of heat from the area where the wood stove currently sits that allows for reasonable transfer of heat from that area to the other rooms, that will work against you for a stove in the opposite end of the home. A fan can help, but may not work as well in one direction as the other.

As for the stove, just remember that pellet stoves require a considerable amount of very thorough cleaning of internal parts, including pulling motors, often more than once per season. I realize you had a wood stove, but if your wife is not comfortable with things like taking off the motors, etc., and maintenance "if something happens to you" is an issue, then dealer support is a huge question. Pellet stoves are much more "technical" than wood stoves, require electricity, etc. Your comments make me think dealer quality should be a primary consideration.

While I agree about the ducting I respectfully disagree with your statements regarding pulling motors etc. Running the stove 24/7 from October thru March I've cleaned mine twice in seven heating seasons. As well, I only do a full-on vent clean every two years and, aside from pulling ashes forward and occasionally scraping the burnpot, I only clean once every three to five weeks and that does not include ESP or fines box which I do yearly. While I agree that dealer support is desirable I think you are greatly overstating the need for maintenance. In my opinion the best ongoing maintenance is finding and burning good quality pellets.

 

[Ambient]

As for the stove, just remember that pellet stoves require a considerable amount of very thorough cleaning of internal parts, including pulling motors, often more than once per season. I realize you had a wood stove, but if your wife is not comfortable with things like taking off the motors, etc., and maintenance "if something happens to you" is an issue, then dealer support is a huge question. Pellet stoves are much more "technical" than wood stoves, require electricity, etc. Your comments make me think dealer quality should be a primary consideration.

Well, we had our chat last night. So much research and discussion to present to her, so we sit down to review things. She announces right off she didn't realize her girlfriend at work has had pellet stoves for years and four years ago got one of the ones we're looking at. She is super excited and has a whole page of notes. The good news it's not the bells and whistles version she wants, yippee! It just isn't the exact model I wanted. Her girl friend does the maintenance on her stove, so she is interested in learning how to do it also. Self motivated or self directed is half the battle. So she was keen to watch the videos on how to do this last night. The new stove will now get more attention and maintenance than I will

There certainly will be a point were she just can't handle maintenance, when it comes to replacements or trouble shooting and would need to have a reliable established dealer; so I agree with your recommendations. This is dovetailing very nicely as the dealer is also where we bought our tractor with parts and service for 11 years. I have many folks here in town that have one of these stoves, if not the same model. They all rave about them, as we all tend to do about the emotional security of our decisions. Heading out today to go through the entire list, just to make sure we have the best picture before jumping in.

 

[F4jock]

So what did you choose?

 

[Ambient]

So what did you choose?

Can I let you know when we return today? Nothing is final....just yet; after all it's suppose to be my call!

edit: I'll need to find some pellets, I guess I'll grab a few different brands as I go along from shop to shop.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

While I agree about the ducting I respectfully disagree with your statements regarding pulling motors etc. Running the stove 24/7 from October thru March I've cleaned mine twice in seven heating seasons. As well, I only do a full-on vent clean every two years and, aside from pulling ashes forward and occasionally scraping the burnpot, I only clean once every three to five weeks and that does not include ESP or fines box which I do yearly. While I agree that dealer support is desirable I think you are greatly overstating the need for maintenance. In my opinion the best ongoing maintenance is finding and burning good quality pellets.

Actually, we may not be all that far apart, but you mention a couple of "qualifiers", the biggest being pellet quality and the other quantity burned. We ran our Quad MVAE all season the first year exclusively on Hamer's Ultras without anything more than routine cleaning, and it was fine. But I used only one ton that year to heat a specific room to a comfortable temp (reason we bought the first stove), relying on the heat pump for the rest of the house. The next year we cranked up the room temp a bit as we discovered that really diminished heat pump use overall, burned two tons of a reasonably high quality softwood, and still made it through the season with only the annual cleaning, but with the stove "feeling it" by early April. Year three we decided to "push it" and burned almost three tons, but couldn't get Hamer's locally at a reasonable price so burned primarily box store pellets. Very different story, and stove required the cleaning I describe above, with a pull of the motor mid season and another at end of season (supportive of your comments to a large degree). Years 4 and 5 we added a second stove and total quantity is now 5-6 tons. Dealer won't deliver Hamers now due to staff changes and price is much higher, so I burn them in cold weather and pick up two tons at start of season, with best quality box store pellets I can find used for "shoulder" months (another debate, I know).

The OP lives in a very rural area, will use stove as primary heat, and pellet quality may be an issue based on availability and potentially cost. We do not know if he will use 3" or 4" vent (I would personally go 4" regardless of length if I were installing again, another point to consider). Given all that, I would PLAN on at least 1-2 thorough cleanings each year, even if high quality pellets are currently available, and must stand by my original comments. I know if I became very ill or was dead, my wife would not be comfortable maintaining our stoves. If the OP raised the issue, it is something to consider. Not everyone has access to very high quality pellets delivered to their door at a reasonable cost, and not everyone is an F4 pilot engineer who can do their own maintenance if needed. And even those superheroes and their lovely spouses eventually age... Not a bad idea to plan for the downside, I say.

 

[F4jock]

Actually, we may not be all that far apart, but you mention a couple of "qualifiers", the biggest being pellet quality and the other quantity burned. We ran our Quad MVAE all season the first year exclusively on Hamer's Ultras without anything more than routine cleaning, and it was fine. But I used only one ton that year to heat a specific room to a comfortable temp (reason we bought the first stove), relying on the heat pump for the rest of the house. The next year we cranked up the room temp a bit as we discovered that really diminished heat pump use overall, burned two tons of a reasonably high quality softwood, and still made it through the season with only the annual cleaning, but with the stove "feeling it" by early April. Year three we decided to "push it" and burned almost three tons, but couldn't get Hamer's locally at a reasonable price so burned primarily box store pellets. Very different story, and stove required the cleaning I describe above, with a pull of the motor mid season and another at end of season (supportive of your comments to a large degree). Years 4 and 5 we added a second stove and total quantity is now 5-6 tons. Dealer won't deliver Hamers now due to staff changes and price is much higher, so I burn them in cold weather and pick up two tons at start of season, with best quality box store pellets I can find used for "shoulder" months (another debate, I know).

The OP lives in a very rural area, will use stove as primary heat, and pellet quality may be an issue based on availability and potentially cost. We do not know if he will use 3" or 4" vent (I would personally go 4" regardless of length if I were installing again, another point to consider). Given all that, I would PLAN on at least 1-2 thorough cleanings each year, even if high quality pellets are currently available, and must stand by my original comments. I know if I became very ill or was dead, my wife would not be comfortable maintaining our stoves. If the OP raised the issue, it is something to consider. Not everyone has access to very high quality pellets delivered to their door at a reasonable cost, and not everyone is an F4 pilot engineer who can do their own maintenance if needed. And even those superheroes and their lovely spouses eventually age... Not a bad idea to plan for the downside, I say.

My bride has no problems with maintenance so I'm lucky that way.

Agree wholeheartedly with 4"vent.

 

[3650]

I discovered that if you want to run a stove on low the longer and wider the chimney stack run....the better. I have learned this from owning and installing 5 different pellet stoves in my home and moving them around a few times. Imo.....cant go wrong with "4.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

So what did you choose?

Glenwood A

a solid fuel gravity hot air furnace with the triple grate system, handles coal, wood, and now pellets first introduced in the early 1900's the unit was noted for being a reliable no frills means of producing and moving vast amounts of heated air throughout large houses?

 

[SESZOO]

I've been lurking here for a bit, and feel much smarter for my time invested. Thank you all. I hope you'll help me with the decision making I'm facing in the next few days.

FIrst, we are very happy with our wood cook stove for 11 years now. Just, not so happy finding any consistency with wood suppliers. I try get 10 - 20 face cords every spring for the heating season two years in advance. Those suppliers seem to come and go, with promises...promises...promises. I assume there's too much demand and not enough suppliers?

We've reached the point were we want to be more environmentally sound, have more consistent heat, less labor and less feedback from the better half . Getting up at 4am or several times a night when temps are down to -20 or so, to fire up the cook stove is wearing me down.

To the point:
We have been searching the available products within 70 miles of us and have come up with a few options:

Harman XXV* The wifey's pick

Osburn 5000

Avalon AGP

Harman Accentra

Osburn 45

I'll stop here and see if anyone wants to jump in on this. I've started to form opinions, but I really am in listening mode. I also don't want to post volumes on my first post here.

Try one of the dealers up in Bangor in Franklin Cty. Both are good and will offer service if needed ,one sells Lopi's while the other sell Harman's , We went with the Lopi only because we got a better cash deal ,but would have bought a Harman with no problem either . We're out of Northern St. Law. and haven't had problems getting pellets from them either .

 

[3650]

Man...he left us hangin....

 

[SidecarFlip]

My bride has no problems with maintenance so I'm lucky that way.

Agree wholeheartedly with 4"vent.

Thats your opinion.....lol

 

[Wilbur Feral]

My bride has no problems with maintenance so I'm lucky that way.

Agree wholeheartedly with 4"vent.

As the saying goes, I'd rather be lucky than good. Hopefully one can be both. But we digress from the topic at hand...

 

[SidecarFlip]

One needs to interject some humor on a crappy February evening.....

 

[sweets]

Id say vogelsang 5790
65.000 btus burns cheepo + good pellets , youll love it .....buckle door
Streamline easy cleaning 15 hundo bucks , new this year ...

 

[F4jock]

As the saying goes, I'd rather be lucky than good. Hopefully one can be both. But we digress from the topic at hand...

Only 50%

 

[Ambient]

Well,

The wife takes a personal day off from work, we drive an hour to see the Harman stove of her dreams. The exit before we get off the interstate, the dealer's salesman calls and tells us we have some confusion here. The day before they transferred the Harman stove we were going to see, to the shop in the same town my wife works in; the other store need something to display .


AN hour trip and personal day taken to be spent on what? An apologetic salesman said he went out to get the unit and bring it into the showroom yesterday morning and it was already gone. Sadly he knew the day before she would take time off and how far we would travel, one might think ahead an ensure that you actually have what we were coming to see in hand.

OK it was a simple communication error. A human mistake, just part and parcel of living in the north country; so now what? We decided to make the best of it. So she bought a new dress and shoes.......lol. What was to be a singular stop and go home trip, just to vet out the Harman stove, now became an open book. Maybe it was for the best. In the back of my mind was a post that kept ringing in my ears, something like "Luke, use the force!"

Well I'll put it this way to get to 50K on the input side of the equation using a very very good pellet requires that you burn over 5.5 pounds an hour and over the course of 24 hours that amounts to 133 pounds of pellets.

If we assume (no comment) that you only need half of that you need at least a nominal 65 pound hopper so that rules out the Accentra.

Now the really big question service when needed and who is going to do the cleaning. If you aren't going to handle the whole job then you have to evaluate the dealers technical ability, reliability, and past performance as any of the remaining units can handle the heating side.

We ended up going to see the other dealer in town. We viewed and then discussed the variables with some of the runner up stoves. Quickly eliminating some of the cute, but inefficient stoves, (happily the wifey was recognizing the important issues by now on her own). The Harman $$V was really a 38,500 btu stove potential and the big boxy stove I had in mind was a 70,000 potential unit.

If the ability to have extended burn times, big BTU's with reasonable efficiency, a competitive cost, fairly low emissions and maintenance that even the wife can do is the goal we are now on the path to get an:

Osburn 7000 which is suppose to be a true 70,000 OUTPUT potential. *We're impressed with the dealership, and have friends that are also.


Reading the manuals and watching their informational video's has presented a few questions:

The brochure states on one page that the Osburn 5000 has a 50,000 output and the 7000 has a 50,000 output also? The tech pages state what would seem to be the common sense claim of 50K and 70K outputs. The dealer stated that it was typo.

The other partial concern is a video showing pellets from wood, switch grass, bark etc then the manual states ONLY wood pellets. I'm confused, but I would only expect to burn wood pellets anyway?​

I really could use some input from anyone. I have been reading the topics from my search of the forum and the internet. opinions anyone?

 

[F4jock]

Don't overthink and get mired in detail. I only have Harman experience but it has never let me down. Get the largest one you can and enjoy.

 

[Ambient]

Don't overthink and get mired in detail. I only have Harman experience but it has never let me down. Get the largest one you can and enjoy.

We are going to see the XXV today, but the largest BTU Harman's (P series) just won't be entertained by the wife.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The 5000 7000 is a Wood pellet only unit, the 7000 5000 can burn Wood, Wood and Hay, Bark, and Switch Grass all in pellet form according to the information on Osburn's site. So the 7000 5000 is a Wood Pellet stove and the 5000 7000 has limited multifuel capability.

 

[Ambient]

The 5000 is a Wood pellet only unit, the 7000 can burn Wood, Wood and Hay, Bark, and Switch Grass all in pellet form according to the information on Osburn's site. So the 5000 is a Wood Pellet stove and the 7000 has limited multifuel capability.

My browser is having trouble with their site today, I guess I need to clean up some cookies and read again. Thanks!

edit: This is from the 7000 owners manual
5.2.1 PROPER FUEL
Each type of pellet
*snip*
The bottom-feed system of this stove is designed and tested specifically for use with wood pellets.
WARNING: BURNING OTHER TYPES OF PELLETS IS PROHIBITED. IT VIOLATES THE BUILDING CODES FOR WHICH THE STOVE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND WILL VOID THE WARRANTY

 

[Ambient]

The dealer says he runs every type of pellet through the 5000 display model that can be found locally. He has found it is happier with 100% softwood pellet? I just wonder if that's because it makes a brighter fire in the showroom?

There are two types of pellets available with great reps from users within my community:

from the Harman dealer: 100 hardwood
from TSC: 50/50 soft/hard pellet

and now his recommendation of 100% softwood

I'm 100% new to this and obviously just need to get some of my own experience to form an opinion. I know when I burn the pine/hemlock slab wood in the cook stove it is intense but is gone quickly. When I burn soft maple it doesn't give enough BTU's to really heat the house and burns too quickly. When I burn real seasoned hard woods, if I'm not careful I can make my cook stove top glow and make substantial heat.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If you can trim the stove to the fuel then what the fuel is made of becomes a total none issue as far as the stove is concerned. Most people seem to forget to do that and complain instead, when they burn too rich or too lean.

Solid fuel is not a uniform fuel.

 

[SidecarFlip]

+10 on what Smokey said, they even vary from bag to bag depending on what the extruded is using for feedstock.....

My take on a Harman is simply, if you have the disposable income and want the asthetics of gold trim and fake logs, get one. Keep in mind that neither gold trim or fakey logs increase heat output. If you want a basic stove with good output and a sane pricetag, look elsewhere.

As of late Harman seems to be divesting itself of it's domestic operations in Pennsylvania and going to offshore sources for components and possibly even complete units. Myself, I want something made domestically, by American workers, not a rice-a-roni unit, consequently, I've scratched a new Harmon off my list of possible replacement units when my stove peters out.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

My browser is having trouble with their site today, I guess I need to clean up some cookies and read again. Thanks!

edit: This is from the 7000 owners manual
5.2.1 PROPER FUEL
Each type of pellet
*snip*
The bottom-feed system of this stove is designed and tested specifically for use with wood pellets.
WARNING: BURNING OTHER TYPES OF PELLETS IS PROHIBITED. IT VIOLATES THE BUILDING CODES FOR WHICH THE STOVE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND WILL VOID THE WARRANTY

I reversed the numbers above the 5000 is limited multi and 7000 is wood only

I have changed what I was burning from a 100% oak pellet to a 65/35 hardwood/softwood mix pellet to a 100% softwood pellet and now I'm back on a 100% oak pellet, I have no fine air control on my stove the mix and 100% softwood pellet burns cleaner on the #3 firing rate and the 100% oak on #2.

 

[Bioburner]

With the heating season hopefully coming to a close, shopping for a used stove and a bit of time over the summer refurbing a stove can get one a nice made in the USA stove and even if one has to replace several components on a Harman, the p-series is a heavy steel welded box that should have no wear issues ever unless its used as a planter outside or as a doggy hydrant. Unlike the so many others that are a box inside a box.