- In search of a proper pellet stove

[Ambient]

Weekday Update:

Our goal is something close to 50K BTU's, larger hopper with longer burn time, efficient and easy maintenance, reasonable cost, solid company/dealer with parts and know how? Fairly local??? We're living in the middle of nowhere....46% of our town doesn't use modern plumbing or electricity.

The following have fairly high BTU's, decent size hoppers, potential long burn times, reasonable expectations of a clean and maintenance schedule. The wife chimed in and helped sort through the choices, therefore the search maybe narrowing. We are headed out to the dealers in the next few days.

Harman XXV 65# hopper and a potential 65 hour burn time; Wife's input: has a "pretty version" 50K $$$$

Harman Accentra 50# hopper with a potential 66 hour burn time; "has a nice version" 40K $$$

Enviro M55 80# hopper with potential 48 hour burn time; has a "pretty version" 55K $$$

Enviro Maxx M 130# hopper with a potential of 76 hours? Silence on this version 60K $$$

Avalon AGP 80# hopper with a potential of 57 hours. Silence on this version 41K $


Our evolution of thought considers the efficiency of the device and of our personal time. Like if I want to go ice fishing I can leave earlier because the stove doesn't need many inputs in the early AM.

So, are our hopeful expectations a pipe dream?

Do any of these units will have potential problems while trying to utilize the extended burn times. The daily maintenance should be done irregardless of potential burn times, or are these really good for a couple of days?

Do you feel comfortable with ranking your choice if it had to be something listed here? If none of these were an option how far would you go to get your real preference?


The Harman dealer was the source for my tractor 11 years ago, so I have a very confident relationship with them. I'm just not thrilled with the cost.
The other models, the dealers are new to me. One of the enviro dealers can't seem to return an email with information I was promised over the phone.





If someone has a very negative opinion and can help me understand why I might want to steer clear of a particular product listed, please send me a private message. I'm not interested in causing an uproar even if it is the middle of the winter and there's not much to do.

 

[Ambient]

I'd say get a Harman P series, I assume you are keeping the cook stove, when you are short of wood go to TSC and get some Bio Bricks..I had an Elmira cook stove for a number of years, again wood supply was an issue and the small fire box. Also make sure the dealer stands behind his product, service after the sale, especially on the Enviro... You really don't want to hear "we don't have parts" & "this the first one I've worked on"..

The wifey discounted the possibility of the P series. The cook stove is great with real hard wood, yes we will keep it. I have 20 face cord of SOFT maple on hand that is seasoned. That's about all I can get locally, which has been part of my frustration. I also have 6 of unseasoned hard wood and 6 of slab wood, which is great when cooking on the stove. The slab wood we can buy for 12 yards @ $75 delivered.

 

[canuck_22]

It can be negative 24 like yesterday to negative 35 here. I'm an hour south of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Heat pumps are a bit more expensive here.

Have a Mitsu H/P, she will stop at -17c (1.4F)

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Well I'll put it this way to get to 50K on the input side of the equation using a very very good pellet requires that you burn over 5.5 pounds an hour and over the course of 24 hours that amounts to 133 pounds of pellets.

If we assume (no comment) that you only need half of that you need at least a nominal 65 pound hopper so that rules out the Accentra.

Now the really big question service when needed and who is going to do the cleaning. If you aren't going to handle the whole job then you have to evaluate the dealers technical ability, reliability, and past performance as any of the remaining units can handle the heating side.

 

[Ambient]

Well I'll put it this way to get to 50K on the input side of the equation using a very very good pellet requires that you burn over 5.5 pounds an hour and over the course of 24 hours that amounts to 133 pounds of pellets.

If we assume (no comment) that you only need half of that you need at least a nominal 65 pound hopper so that rules out the Accentra.

Now the really big question service when needed and who is going to do the cleaning. If you aren't going to handle the whole job then you have to evaluate the dealers technical ability, reliability, and past performance as any of the remaining units can handle the heating side.

Hmm, the 50K was based loosely on a formula I had found somewhere???, after doing the math it showed we potentially needed something over 45K, based on our potential low temps outside. So what outside temp would it be if I'm cranking up 133 pounds of pellets in a day? I don't want to run a unit too hard because it's undervalued, nor do I want a unit burning more fuel than I have to just to maintain operation. I am figuring the higher potential would be for severe weather outside and an extended period away from the stove. Normal operating conditions I wouldn't expect to need half of the maximum potential.

Also, I'm curious how

Harman Accentra 50# hopper with a potential 66 hour burn time

a 50 # hopper gives you a potential for a 66 hour burn time?



As for the maintenance I normally don't have trouble with anything but VCR's I've rebuilt motors and transmissions and other such machinery. The videos I've watched on most of these unit's do not look like anything too complicated. Testing circuit boards without diagnostic equipment is a different matter.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'm just going by what you put out there if you want a better idea of what is needed in the way of heating capacity a heat loss calculation has to be done for your house and the area it is in, there is a method to use to do a schedule J calculation for sizing a heating system. They are specific to each house so I can't answer your question without a lot of additional information.

The 66 hours is at a very low heat output rate (think pilot light).

 

[Ambient]

what is needed in the way of heating capacity a heat loss calculation has to be done for your house and the area it is in, there is a method to use to do a schedule J calculation for sizing a heating system.

The 66 hours is at a very low heat output rate (think pilot light).

Wow, my assumption was based on long burn times relating to low BTU outputs like 12-13 K for certain stoves on each stoves site; but pilot light low? Now I am confused. I did a search of the forum and there was no threads on the schedule J calculation. Off to the internet.
edit:
OK: manual J calculation....I'll read on thanks

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Wow, my assumption was based on long burn times relating to low BTU outputs like 12-13 K for certain stoves on each stoves site; but pilot light low? Now I am confused. I did a search of the forum and there was no threads on the schedule J calculation. Off to the internet.
edit:
OK: manual J calculation....I'll read on thanks

Sometimes the low burn rates (maintenance, pilot, low, 1- or 1 or 1+) can be under a pound an hour, it depends upon the stove. Further pellet stoves do not feed by weight so take all those poundage figures with a bit of salt. Not all pellets are the same density either and it is the amount of pellets that load onto the auger (volume) per unit time that counts. Enjoy.

 

[bogieb]

Sometimes the low burn rates (maintenance, pilot, low, 1- or 1 or 1+) can be under a pound an hour, it depends upon the stove. Further pellet stoves do not feed by weight so take all those poundage figures with a bit of salt. Not all pellets are the same density either and it is the amount of pellets that load onto the auger (volume) per unit time that counts. Enjoy.

Take the hopper sizes with a pinch of salt too. My Hastings is supposed to hold 40 pounds, but it is closer to 30 (actually, some manuals say 35 - but still), and I end up filling the hopper twice a day to make sure it doesn't run out. I have an extension on my Harman - but I am unsure if you can get extensions for any of the stoves you list.

 

[F4jock]

After seven years with a Harman I wouldn't have anything else. Cost me under a hundred dollars in parts in that time. Once set up correctly it runs itself. Munches all quality pellets without a hiccup and throws nice heat. If you are looking for a heating appliance and not a mandatory hobby or time sink, go that way.

 

[Ambient]

Take the hopper sizes with a pinch of salt too. My Hastings is supposed to hold 40 pounds, but it is closer to 30 (actually, some manuals say 35 - but still), and I end up filling the hopper twice a day to make sure it doesn't run out. I have an extension on my Harman - but I am unsure if you can get extensions for any of the stoves you list.

Yes I gathered that from some comments I've read. That's actually why the bigger the better became the search. I looked hard at the Enviro Maxx M, but in the end idling a muscle car engine just to cruise seems wasteful. I don't want to burn any more than I need to on low/pilot light days. I want my old Dodge 383cc Interceptor when it's bitter out, the rest of the time I want a 200 eMPG vehicle heating my house. Just enough to stop the soft noises that can be heard if it's too cold in the house.

 

[Ambient]

After seven years with a Harman I wouldn't have anything else. Cost me under a hundred dollars in parts in that time. Once set up correctly it runs itself. Munches all quality pellets without a hiccup and throws nice heat. If you are looking for a heating appliance and not a mandatory hobby or time sink, go that way.

That statement hits the nail on then head! I'm old enough now that just being bullheaded stubborn and handling extra chores everyday for the sake of handling extra chores, no longer makes sense. She's taking the day off tomorrow and we're going out on tour. Depending on our chat tonight, I may bring the truck with me and bring the winner home. If not, and the bells and whistles version wins, we'll have to order the dang thing.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Your search needs to start with a good handle on your houses heat loss figures and the reason for the bigger is better is because nearly all people that got a stove proceeded by getting a unit that could not really handle the load it needed to be able to handle. If the stove can be operated on a t-stat in a couple of modes or on an equivalent temperature sensing system you will not be wasting pellets by "oversizing" the stove. When the temps get down there this place lights up with the stove can't do the job complaints or why is it burning so many pellets questions.

The selection game switchs to personal preferences only after you get a list of units that will actually work.

 

[Ambient]

Your search needs to start with a good handle on your houses heat loss figures and the reason for the bigger is better is because nearly all people that got a stove proceeded by getting a unit that could not really handle the load it needed to be able to handle. If the stove can be operated on a t-stat in a couple of modes or on an equivalent temperature sensing system you will not be wasting pellets by "oversizing" the stove. When the temps get down there this place lights up with the stove can't do the job complaints or why is it burning so many pellets questions.

The selection game switchs to personal preferences only after you get a list of units that will actually work.

The cook stove is a 60K BTU output. When true hardwood is burning, and the stove is trimmed nicely, we can't stay in the room without sweating a storm. The insulated duct work carries the collected heat from the 15 foot high ceiling area to the rest of the living rooms now. I'm going to put another fan at the other end and move the pellet stove heat in the opposite direction utilizing the same duct work; at least that's the plan. On bitter cold days we can always light the wood stove and burn slab wood or hardwood to supplement, if need be. Anything but burning up the LP gas!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

A 50K pellet unit on the input side isn't going to be close to a 60K output side unit.

 

[3650]

If the house isnt very well insulated.....i would be getting the biggest one available. I only have insulation in the attic and today it was 10*. I had the Cumberland in the dining room full bore and the Harman in the living room running nearly full bore just to maintain 72*. The Cumberland is 48,000 btu and Harman is 40,000

 

[Bioburner]

If the house isnt very well insulated.....i would be getting the biggest one available. I only have insulation in the attic and today it was 10*. I had the Cumberland in the dining room full bore and the Harman in the living room running nearly full bore just to maintain 72*. The Cumberland is 48,000 btu and Harman is 40,000

Wow, a real heat wave I was happy to see 8. We had four places in MN break records with temps below -41 this AM

 

[F4jock]

Wow, a real heat wave I was happy to see 8. We had four places in MN break records with temps below -41 this AM

Where in MN?

 

[Bioburner]

Cotton was -43, west of Duluth

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Embarrass was also a bit on the -41 side as well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embarrass_Township,_St._Louis_County,_Minnesota

 

[3650]

is that wind chill? If not.....yikes.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

is that wind chill? If not.....yikes.

Nope real reading no fudge factoring.

 

[Bioburner]

No, that's the unreal temperatures. Was on national TV this evening. Wanna bet there was a lot of cars not starting Porpain probably not working either.

 

[SidecarFlip]

No, that's the unreal temperatures. Was on national TV this evening. Wanna bet there was a lot of cars not starting Porpain probably not working either.

certainly no diesel trucks starting....... either or not. Coldest I ever saw (been out in) was -45 actual in the UP of Michigan about 35 years ago. If you turned your engine off, that was it.

I still have the scars on my face from the severe frostbite from that and very sensative fingers too. They got frozen as well.

-40 is nothing to fool with. I know.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

The cook stove is a 60K BTU output. When true hardwood is burning, and the stove is trimmed nicely, we can't stay in the room without sweating a storm. The insulated duct work carries the collected heat from the 15 foot high ceiling area to the rest of the living rooms now. I'm going to put another fan at the other end and move the pellet stove heat in the opposite direction utilizing the same duct work; at least that's the plan. On bitter cold days we can always light the wood stove and burn slab wood or hardwood to supplement, if need be. Anything but burning up the LP gas!

Be careful in your plans for moving heat from a pellet stove via ducts, particularly if you are now trying to go in the opposite direction. Many find difficulties with this. You may find you have a bit of natural movement of heat from the area where the wood stove currently sits that allows for reasonable transfer of heat from that area to the other rooms, that will work against you for a stove in the opposite end of the home. A fan can help, but may not work as well in one direction as the other.

As for the stove, just remember that pellet stoves require a considerable amount of very thorough cleaning of internal parts, including pulling motors, often more than once per season. I realize you had a wood stove, but if your wife is not comfortable with things like taking off the motors, etc., and maintenance "if something happens to you" is an issue, then dealer support is a huge question. Pellet stoves are much more "technical" than wood stoves, require electricity, etc. Your comments make me think dealer quality should be a primary consideration.