Ignitor issues-Enviro Milan

[Danman1116]

Good evening folks, you've all been a great help for some issues I've had in the past and figure I'd reach out to you all again. I know the season is winding down for pellet stoves but I've run into another little issue. After turning the stove off a couple days ago I tried turning it on yesterday. The pot fills with pellets but there's no flame from the ignitor. It eventually just turns off and the amber light flashes on the motherboard. I've tried doing a pretty good cleaning behind the ceramic plates and clean the ash tray behind the exhaust blower. I'd also like to mention the exhaust blower is new and functioning properly.

Thank you all in advance for your help!

 

[stovelark]

Sounds like your ignitor has burned out. You can limp through by lighting the stove manually with alcohol gel or a torch... The ignitor for the Empress and Milan are in the very center inner side of the rear of the unit, held in with two little torx screws. The unit really needs to be taken out, leaned forward a bit to get to it. I have done it a couple of times, thankfully those ignitors last pretty well. If you take out the convection blower, it gives you a little more room. I had a flexi extension and socket to change mine. Its kinda a pain, but if you are mechanically inclined, you can do it. The ignitors aren't inexpensive either, they use the 400W Enviro ignitor. With an ohmmeter, resistance of a good ignitor is around 45 ohms, with a bad (open) ignitor, it will be infinity... Good luck with her.

 

[Danman1116]

That was my initial thoughts as well. Stoves about 17 years old at this point so it's only a matter of time before some things start breaking down! Thank you!

 

[stovelark]

Are you the original owner? If so, 17 years is amazing for an ignitor. Mine in the Empress lasted for about 10 seasons, but i tried to avoid using the ignitor, once it got cold, I ran stove continuously, and adjusted heat level as needed, rather than cycling it so many times.

 

[Danman1116]

Yep we are the original owners of the stove. This season it definitely got a workout with it being turned off and on a lot so figure it just got burned out.

Should I try doing a bench test with it? I know it's not exactly in the easiest of spots but looking at the prices I may just go ahead and replace it based on it's age.

 

[Ssyko]

Wow awesome im ordering a new igniter now for next season. I got 8 yrs out of my Maxx igniter, it does run solely on a thermostat to keep the warden comfy🤣 Congrats on 17yrs that is unheard of 👍👍👍

 

[Whitenuckler]

Yep we are the original owners of the stove. This season it definitely got a workout with it being turned off and on a lot so figure it just got burned out.

Should I try doing a bench test with it? I know it's not exactly in the easiest of spots but looking at the prices I may just go ahead and replace it based on it's age.

One handy thing to pickup is one of those kwh plugs. The one I have can show voltage current watts kwh ect. You can leave your stove plugged into it as long as you want. On my P43, with the combustion blower on, and the igniter heating up it's about 400W. If I were to start it up with an open igniter, it would be 60W.

 

[johneh]

Enviro Igniter seem to last forever my fe 3 is now 23 years old and using the same igniter
My shop heater a Max is also on the original igniter at 15 years old They owe me nothing

 

[stovelark]

Wow- in my experience Enviro and Whitfield ignitors tended to last a long time, but WOW. Mine I tried to protect a bit because I knew it wasn't a convenient one to change out. My EF3 was all original when I sold it at 8 years old, that's still my favorite stove I've had, simple reliable and nice heat. You can do a continuity check on your ignitor at the wiring harness to confirm its burned through, but to get behind the insert to check it, you might as well be ready to change it out. One more thing too, if you have the new control board with the separate fuses for each component, make sure it did not burn it out when the ignitor burned out. The older motherboards were a single fuse, the later one had the separate. Stay warm.

 

[Danman1116]

Update, pulled the stove out and tested with a multimeter. Appears no juice is coming from the MoBo to the ignitor. What would be my next step? Also should the flashing amber light mean anything?

Edit: Meant to also mention that the stove does eventually shut off after 10 minutes of no flame. Not sure if that means anything

 

[johneh]

This is the start-up for the 4100 board which is the one I think you have
Check the red wire at the board if no power at start-up cold stove you may have a problem with the board

DHC 4100 Start-Up Sequence (15 Minutes) - Manual Mode, Factory Setting:NOTE: No Thermostat or Wall Switch - Manual Control Only1. Push the ON/OFF button to start. The stove may take up to 30 seconds to establish firebox vacuum.2. The Auger Light will flash with each pulse of the auger (the auger feed rate is pre-programmed during start-up).3. The combustion blower comes on at full speed.4. a. The ignitor comes on.b. The convection blower stays off.c. The heat level indicator will show the heat level that the stove will run at after start-up.d. The operator has no control over the start-up sequence. The operator can press and hold the manual feed button to run the auger continuously for 60 seconds and then will have to press again for another 60 seconds. The operator can also pre-set the heat output setting for operation. When the unit reaches operating temperature the heat output will go to that setting.5. a. The unit should light after 5 to 12 minutes.b. Once the 120°F (49°C) exhaust temperature sensor closes, the convection blower will come on.6. Fifteen minutes after pushing the start button, the Mode light will change to solid. This signals that the unit is at operating temperature and control is returned to the user.7. The Auger Light will continue to flash to the corresponding Heat Level setting. The Heat Level Indicator will show the Heat Level that the stove will run at after start-up and can be adjusted but the change will not take effect until the start-up has finished.8. The convection blower (room air blower) will turn on.DHC 4100 Normal Operation - Manual Mode, Factory Setting:T he operator can now set the heat output, low feed trim, and whether the convection blower is ON or OFF (depending on model).The combustion fan trim changes exhaust voltage incrementally on all heat levels. When this button is pressed, all the lights come on except the one that is the set point. This will indicate what setting it is on before adjustment. Hold the button down and press the up or down arrow to adjust the setting. Depending on the model, the convection blower can be turned OFF by depressing the convection blower control button. For the best efficiency, the convection blower should be left on at all times. Feed trim changes ‘ON’ time in 0.25 sec. increments for each feed setting. Position #4 is the factory default setting, there is one (1) setting up and three (3) settings down. When this button is pressed all the lights come on except the one that is the set point. This will indicate what setting it is on before adjustment. Hold ‘Feed Rate Trim’ button down and press the up or down arrow to adjust setting. Trimsettings are still maintained after loss of power.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Update, pulled the stove out and tested with a multimeter. Appears no juice is coming from the MoBo to the ignitor. What would be my next step? Also should the flashing amber light mean anything?

Edit: Meant to also mention that the stove does eventually shut off after 10 minutes of no flame. Not sure if that means anything

I looked at the technical manual however there is not enough information given. If no power on the red wire then check the board for any fuses and if you are handy (or have a friend) you might try and replace a relay or triac chip. Also any obvious damage to the board such as arcing or over heating. A new board may be required and that one repaired? for a spare.

 

[Danman1116]

I looked at the technical manual however there is not enough information given. If no power on the red wire then check the board for any fuses and if you are handy (or have a friend) you might try and replace a relay or triac chip. Also any obvious damage to the board such as arcing or over heating. A new board may be required and that one repaired? for a spare.

Thanks folks! Looking at the board there's only one fuse and appears intact . No damage to the board at all either. Gonna do some more troubleshooting and see where that gets me. Really appreciate all the help you all have given me!

 

[Ssyko]

It is probably the triac, (small black component with 3 legs) they fail open ( like yours). Or they fail closed ( power all the time)

 

[Whitenuckler]

Thanks folks! Looking at the board there's only one fuse and appears intact . No damage to the board at all either. Gonna do some more troubleshooting and see where that gets me. Really appreciate all the help you all have given me!

I don't think we discussed the vacuum switch yet? Make sure the vacuum switch is closing on startup. Sorry if that was already checked.

 

[Danman1116]

How would I do that and where would it be located?

 

[johneh]

I looked at the technical manual however there is not enough information given.

As a retired Envrio teck, I wish people who look at that manual would
read it all in another section it tells you that it has only one fuse Envrio
also does not publicize board schematics just like other manufacturers
I applaud people with the skills to diagnose and repair boards and I have
some skill in it but not enough to advise a repair

 

[Whitenuckler]

How would I do that and where would it be located?

Best to just jumper it to check but only when testing. I forgot to ask if it is feeding pellets on startup?

 

[Danman1116]

Yes it feeds normally

 

[Whitenuckler]

I don't think it would feed without the pressure switch, however I'd try everything at this stage as you are looking at a control card which is not cheap. When you jumper the wires isolate them so they don't ground.

PS - If you have not used a surge plug or bar then get one

 

[Ssyko]

before you buy new give me a PM. i marked the triacs on the board 1 is open. without testing i cant remember which one is the igniter.

 

[Danman1116]

So I did a bench test with the ignitor. Should I hear anything or should it do anything when testing it because when I tested, nothing happened so maybe it is the ignitor after all?

The MoBo looks a little different than my mobo. Here's what mine looks like

 

[johneh]

When the igniter is fed 120 volts it should glow orange
If it does not it is most likely finished and needs a replacement

Enviro Pellet Ignitor - Many Models (50-619/SI50619)

This is an OEM Enviro Pellet Ignitor that is found in many Enviro pellet stoves and pellet insert fireplaces. This is a genuine Enviro replacement part

friendlyfires.ca

They do deliver and that amount is in Canadian funds

 

[Danman1116]

After checking again, no sign of activity so I think we found our culprit. Thank you thank you thank you all!! 😃

 

[stovelark]

Was gonna tell you to put power directly to ignitor to verfiy, or an ohms check would do it too (dead ignitor infinity ohms- open, normal ignitor 45-48 ohms) But if you do all that, you might be ready to just go ahead and change it. I've also had a couple of times when I didn't have good connection with wiring, checking pin connectors too. But am confident a new ignitor will get her heating up again... good luck.