I Wish I had a Fisher

[coaly]

You should open damper and squeeze pipe so it is close to perfectly round. The damper should spin without touching a clean pipe. Then you'll know how much space the damper is actually closing off. Your half (45*) or quarter damper setting may be closing it much more than you think since the plate comes into contact with the pipe.
Half turn was good here for milder nights but you also have to leave damper open more as it gets warmer outside. (less draft with less temperature differential between inside and outside of flue) Storms with lower pressure also requires the damper open farther so the lower air pressure can get into the stove having less pressure pushing in. Even the sun beating on the chimney pipe during the day requires the damper open more so it's a constantly changing adjustment.
The more heat you need, the larger the air opening. If you want to bring the top up hotter for raising the temp in the house or cooking, 2 turns with open damper is like full throttle, then close damper about half way to continue cooking and stand back. Your top at the lower bend should hit 600 regularly with a baffle plate. It takes the spikes out of the pipe temps as well making it much more controllable.

 

[vasten]

I worked at the damper and I got it moving a lot better it still touches the sides but not until I get to the horizontal position. now, when I changed the stove I replaced some of the pipe too and this one they came out more D shaped then round so I will keep working on that to get it to move freely at all angles. Using the dual dampers pipe and stove is a learning curve but I have read a lot on other posts you have out here and pretty comfortable experimenting with it. generally speaking horizontal on the pipe and 1 turn on the door damper seems to be an average setting.
I did notice the other night when the temps dropped into the single digits the pipe temp was climbing with out me changing any settings, as I understand that is due to the draft increasing. I thought that was cool to watch it was like the stove turning itself up as the temps dropped.

my adventure to find the metal for the baffle was a no go, the one person that I could talk to yesterday quoted me $75 for a piece smaller than what I needed. Once he told me that price I just let it go right out of my mind, but he did give me some leads on other places I could try.
I am looking at 15*9 for my baffle plate I was thinking of going 10 but didnt want to choke it down too much, but it seems like there is still alot of room left. I am thinking of it in terms of an EPA stove where they leave only about a 1/2-1" between the stove edge and the baffle.

 

[coaly]

Mild steel plate (A-36) is what you want and should be under $20 for 5/16 thick X15 X 9. 15 X 10 is probably fine too, just drop the front to the correct opening. It's critical when someone has a bunch of elbows, larger 8 inch flue and outside cold chimney that doesn't stay hot inside. Then they experience smoke roll in when opening door and the plate needs to be smaller. You can go with the max. It's all about sizing and setting opening for the chimney, not the stove. A local welding shop should have it or find any steel supplier. Local scrap yards may have a piece that small too. Yellow pages should list steel distributors and warehouses or steel fabricators. Many factories that fabricate metal will sell a piece cut to what you need. With a small cut charge it's still under $16.00 around here.

Your 6 inch outlet, pipe and flue is all 6 inch which is an opening of 28.26 square inches. Make the opening for smoke to pass no smaller than that 28.26 square inch. With your insulated flue, you should be able to set the plate at that minimum space then try the damper about half shut. (45*)

Depending on the hole size in your damper, horizontal being closed completely is probably too much. Super dry wood and burning it very hard may get away with closing it tight, there are many variables. Once in the coaling stage with no smoke you can close it fully to prolong coals but you'll find you won't produce much heat. Older dampers have larger holes so they can be closed more. Most new dampers have little to no holes in them. Watch creosote formation in case it forms rapidly.

As far as getting heat into your hard to heat kitchen, is the ceiling height the same in kitchen as stove room? Moving hot air with a fan in the deisred direction doesn't work as well as moving the cooler air with fan into the hotter room. Cold air is denser and easier to move into warmer air. Blow cold air at floor level into the stove room and see if the warmer air at top of doorway moves into kitchen. I use a smoking incense stick to show air currents and movement.

 

[vasten]

I let my stove go out and pulled the cap off the clean out T, I noticed that there is some dry creosote on the pipe that I could wipe away with my finger just a thin coating. I opened the damper it looks similar all the way to the top. I would have run the brush up it for good measure when I had the cap off, but realized putting the T on the stove really served no purpose as the damper wont allow the brush past. So I still need to remove the pipe to get the brush in there. I did think of moving the T to the top of the length that has the damper in it, it wouldn't look as "clean" as having it below but would be easier to run a brush through once a month or so. Then I could shop vac anything that fell into the elbow

My damper appears to be slightly off set in the pipe, it makes contact on the front of the pipe and has about 1/4 in gap on the back when fully closed. I blame the guy that drilled the holes (ME). there are 4 hexagon holes across the middle of the damper guessing about 1/2 in each. Even when fully closed there is some airflow going through vs a completely sealed damper.

We have had milder temps this week, thank god. And my kitchen has been avg about 5-10 degree difference from the living room. It has two 32in doors one leads in from the living room where the stove is and the other from what used to be the hallway before we removed the wall separating the hall and living room. both doors are on the same wall about 5 feet apart. I used to hang fans in the door ways and would blow the warm air from the ceiling out to the kitchen but since I removed the wall between the living room and the hall I don't get the large heat build up at the ceiling any longer.
I will keep experimenting with fans to see how best to move the heat into the kitchen.

I have also noticed that when my stove is cool, I can rake all my coals to the door and open the dampers wide and with in 5 mins I have orange coals again hot enough to ignite my next load. I loaded it up last night around 9 PM and at 10 AM there were enough hot coals remaining to restart the fire.

 

[coaly]

I have also noticed that when my stove is cool, I can rake all my coals to the door and open the dampers wide and with in 5 mins I have orange coals again hot enough to ignite my next load. I loaded it up last night around 9 PM and at 10 AM there were enough hot coals remaining to restart the fire.

Yes, it will burn down to fine ash behind air intakes first. the wood in the rear becomes charcoal without enough oxygen to ignite and has a very low ignition temperature. For 24/7 burning, you remove a little ash from the front each morning. Rake coal pile and charcoal ahead with a little ash to build the new fire on. This way you never need to allow it to go completely out to remove ash. (burn on about 1 inch ash) As long as you don't need to use a match to relight, it is considered the length of burn time. If you don't maintain the coal pile like that you can get so many coals built up it decreases loading area. A stove full of coals doesn't heat very well and needs to have air and stirred up to burn down. That only happens during prolonged cold periods when you're loading it to the max constantly. With the wacky weather warming up sometimes a fire isn't needed during the day and I've raked ahead at 3 PM to find enough to restart it. The deep narrow firebox is more conducive to this type of burning than a double door wider stove that doesn't create as much charcoal and coals in the back.

Here is what older dampers with a metered hole look like.

Took me a long time to realize it's easier collecting dampers than stoves .

 

[coaly]

The way to clean from bottom up around damper is with a chimney whip instead of brush. Check out reviews on the Soot Eater. It is a flexible rod with a ball on the end that uses thick string as used on weed trimmers. It goes right past open damper and cleans better than a brush.

 

[vasten]

Coaly you have an interesting obsession, is there a meeting place fo this type of addiction, Hi I'm coaly and I can't help myself lol

I just had to say I am loving cleaning this stove. For a stove with out an ash pan, this is a breeze to clean compared to my VC or prior stoves. Just open the door scrap down til you see bricks, and back until you see charcoal then rake forward, and reload. Done in like 5 mins and have the fire going again in mins. No shop vac to clear the air chambers, no disassembly and reassembly. Plus the whole process produces a lot less ash in the room too.

Last night it was a miserable wet snow,sleet rain mix. about 30 outside and the house was around 77 in here with the kitchen at 67. It felt a lot warmer than 77 but that is what the thermometer showed so. Strange thing is according to my IR gun I cant get the stove top to hit 600 or higher. I am burning just ash right now and I can get that fire roaring, but once I start closing the pipe damper down it settles out around 580 on the high side, often 450-500. I have messed with every combo of pipe and door dampers I can think of and nada it may hit 600+ but wont maintain it. which is fine for now, but when it drops into the teens or lower I would like to know I can pump more heat out as needed.

 

[coaly]

It will get a little hotter as it gets colder. More temperature differential from inside and outside of flue creates lower pressure in stove allowing more air to enter.

Another trick to decrease fly ash in the air when cleaning is to crumple up newspaper and let it burn fast near the back. This heats the flue creating more draft like a 6 inch vacuum cleaner. Keep the ash bucket close to the stove door opening and let the ash down easy into the bottom. Any that does become airborne is sucked into stove and up the flue.

Yeah, I've worked on my Fisher obsession for quite some time. I ALMOST have it beat !! (a "Hit Line" brand Fisher belt buckle was on eBay last week from Canada that I couldn't resist. I bid and won it. I had 1 brass and one bronze dealer only buckle in the collection and was missing the more common one made by Hit Line) BUT..... I recently forced myself to bid and won a Buck Stove belt buckle on eBay and last month won an Old Timer buckle to add to my collection of Fisher buckles! There's a Timberline buckle on eBay now but I refuse to pay over $30 for it in rough condition. I know it's a substitute like chewing gum instead of smoking, but my pants should never fall down.



I don't know if I can bring myself to go for an All-Nighter piece of memorabilia. I know one exists and I can't even post a picture of it here. I guess I have a ways to go.

 

[vasten]

I just got home and heard the back up alarm of a large truck...looking around i saw it was the fuel oil truck delivering oil to my neighbor. My neighbor always makes sure he has his firewood done 1-2 years in advance sometimes 3 years. Runs an expensive top of the line EPA stove and orders fuel oil in the summer when prices are low. He seems to hate non EPA stoves calling them smoke dragons and wood eaters.

Funny because in my non-insulated house I am still burning the last of my 200 gals of fuel oil.
Guess Ill take my wood eater and burn 10-12 face a year, vs 7 and still paying for oil
Maybe he is just taking advantage of the lower heating oil prices???

 

[coaly]

Even more reason to get a baffle in that thing of yours. Prove that's not always the case. It's more operator than stove. I couldn't believe the reduction in smoke when I first lit my Mama Bear with retrofitted baffle. That wasn't the original intention of baffling my Mama Bear. My problem was the stove in the middle of kitchen overheating the fridge door turning milk sour overnight from so much heat radiating rearward from the rear vent. I thought instead of a shield that would be in the way in the kitchen, why not direct the heat inside the stove toward the front. Then I realized the baffle I drew on the side of the stove with chalk was similar to what was tested and added to the double door stoves for smoke reduction. Sure enough when I fired it the smoke was almost non existent.

Two words for anyone who thinks all non EPA stoves are "Smoke D.........". (I hate that word)
Chicken Bones. Just save all your chicken bones and toss them in the stove when the wind is in his direction. No idea why, but they do smell fowl.

 

[vasten]

LOL I called my local sheet metal fabricator and am waiting for a call back. They said it would only take them a few minutes to cut it but they couldn't give me a price because the owner has to do all pricing. I refused to have them cut it before I knew a price. I plan to also use the broken bricks to make a second tier of firebrick along the sides to add thermal mass to the stove as well. Hopefully it will be ready tomorrow

I know of a guy that used to put used baby diapers in his when the grand kids would come over for a visit. Wouldn't recommend it but his neighbors sure loved him. He would get calls in the dead of winter asking what the HECK he was burning, because their house stunk. I cant even type that without laughing....

 

[coaly]

That's considered Fuel Wood #2

 

[kennyp2339]

I just got home and heard the back up alarm of a large truck...looking around i saw it was the fuel oil truck delivering oil to my neighbor. My neighbor always makes sure he has his firewood done 1-2 years in advance sometimes 3 years. Runs an expensive top of the line EPA stove and orders fuel oil in the summer when prices are low. He seems to hate non EPA stoves calling them smoke dragons and wood eaters.

Funny because in my non-insulated house I am still burning the last of my 200 gals of fuel oil.
Guess Ill take my wood eater and burn 10-12 face a year, vs 7 and still paying for oil
Maybe he is just taking advantage of the lower heating oil prices???

I bet you and your neighbor probably had some good hearth discussions online and not even knew you were talking about each other..lol

 

[vasten]

Could be....lol one never knows here...but always in good fun...and he doesnt need to worry my kids are out of diapers so there will be no #2 fuel logs being burned either.


So the metal shop called me back and asked some very interesting questions today. After explaining what I wanted and what I was going to be doing with it. They asked 5/16 what... I was like A-36 steel. plate. oh so not aluminum, No steel would be preferred. Then another call from them was so what do you consider A-36 because we don't know that that is, would that be the same as hot rolled? At this point I was like yeah fine that will work.
Oh ok that will be about $20.00. I said fine go ahead and cut it for me, still no response that it is ready.

 

[vasten]

The baffle plate went in today. I went 15x9, I put it in when the stove was in the coaling stage, think for the first time I should have waited til it was cool but oh well its in now.

First thing I noticed is that the stove top temps climbed more than what I have been seeing. With the highest temp being on the rise between the two tops, the IR gun read 750. That is running the stove wide open after refilling it, then I slowed brought it down to in the 600's.

I am wondering would it be beneficial to notch the plate around the outlet to get it to sit tight to the back of the stove to get more air infront of the plate vs the rear air gap?

 

[coaly]

That is the difference in gaining usable heat and you're seeing the temp difference go from rear vent pipe to top. Close to 100* difference.
Compare the pipe temps as well to what you had. If you feel they are getting too low, or it causes creosote build up, don't trim the plate at the back. I'd wait and see what it does for a month. The heat you lose up the stack behind the plate may be needed. Mine all have leakage there and I never logged temperatures since each fire is different and difficult to tell when you make minimal changes.

The A36 standard was established by the standards organization ASTM International.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A36_steel

You did good. They probably figure 15 bucks and a $5 cut charge. I had a friend working at a large fabricator that made loading ramps and decks for the military (aluminum / titanium aircraft loading ramps that vehicles drive up into planes) who would cut mine on his own time and the company charged me 1.42 / lb. So a 9 X 15 was 12 lb. at $17.04. Your stove is made with Hot Rolled Steel which has somewhat of a flaky surface appearance since it contracts after shaping. It is easy to work and weld. Cold rolled has a smoother finish and has a harder surface and is used for the shields on back and bottom of the later stoves.

I did one in the coaling stage with welder gloves but I had put them in cold and knew what to expect. I jam a piece of wood across the stove between the two bricks on edge against the sides to hold the bricks tight, tilt through door and set it flat on top of the bricks. Remove hands to cool a minute and push it rearward until the back drops down into place. Once you do a few cold it's easy doing them hot. When I do it for someone I can't expect them to have the stove cold for me.

Now you need to get those guys over with the Mama that won't heat more than two rooms! Tell 'em you've got a hot Mama to check out.

 

[vasten]

Nope I cant introduce anyone to my Mama just yet. My furnace is still kicking on during the night, I want to get it to the point I have eliminated the use of that first. THEN I'l be like check this out and here is my oil bill to prove it lol.

This morning I am guessing the furnace kicked in somewhere around 4-5 AM, came down around 730 and used what I am dubbing the auto lite feature. Pulled the coals to the front of the stove and opened my air full blast and waited for my coals to turn orange then started loading her up with small splits to get the stove hot before adding anything larger.

 

[coaly]

You might need to insulate that place more before you can turn the furnace off. It was 17 overnight here, so I'm guessing it's a lot better than the VC.
Did you always have to use a match with the other stoves?

 

[vasten]

Last night it is saying it only got down to 21 here, the real test will be this coming week when it is supposed to drop down into the teens overnight and single digits after that. It is 34 outside and 79 in the stove room, the stove only has the door draft caps open 1/2 turn and I just shut the flue damper down, oops forgot to do that after reloading.

It has proved to be better than the VC in the sense that I have greater control over the heat, if I want it warmer I open up the dampers if I want to hold at a setting I can. It is also better in, holding usable coals overnight. I have had to match lite all my stoves come morning, not one of them has held usable coals overnight. Two of those were EPA's and one was a 3.5 cu ft.

It is hard to compare apples to apples here because I am also only burning 18in wood vs 24in so for every 4 pieces I am basically not utilizing one full log.

There are pros and cons to both, I think the fisher is EASIER to run and get better heat out of over all. but as far as heating the whole house. I think it might be too early to say just yet

Now that it is baffled bring on the cold, well for a night or two anyway

 

[vasten]

Also I think I may have devolped a drafting issue this year, I noticed it on my VC first and today on the fisher. For ten years that the pipe has been in I have always had great draft if you tore a tissue in half length wise and held it up to a cold pipe in the fall it would want to suck it right up the flue.

This year I noticed that the thermo damper that is just a piece of tin that is held down by gravity, would "bounce". Not constantly but intermittently

This morning when I got the stove roaring with kindling and smaller chunks it sounded like a helicopter in there until the pipe was warmed all the way to the top I am assuming. Once it was warm the fire leveled right out, and even when it was choppy sounding I could open the door and the flames pretty much laid flat.

I am thinking that in years the trees may have grown enough from the wood next to and behind my house that the air current may have changed some and is affecting the draft under certain circumstances. The plan is to add 4 feet this summer and see if it helps keep it strong and even again.

 

[kennyp2339]

I am thinking that in years the trees may have grown enough from the wood next to and behind my house that the air current may have changed some and is affecting the draft under certain circumstances. The plan is to add 4 feet this summer and see if it helps keep it strong and even again.

Sounds like your on the right track, don't forget if your adding additional height you may need to add support brackets to keep everything rigid.

 

[vasten]

Well I loaded the stove up last night around 10-1030 dampened it down pretty good as a test to see. 1/2-3/4 on the doors and almost horizontal on the pipe. at 730 this morning it was 63 in the house and there were chunks of wood left in there, unfortunately it was 35 outside when I got up so, lol Looks like I need to start focusing on more insulation now for the house and I may be on to something.

With it being that warm out and the sun beating on the chimney, the stove started right up and ran smooth this morning no choppy sounds.


The plan is to add 4 feet and brace it, then get the chimney whip to clean from bottom up because I definitely don't want to be cleaning top down on that lol

 

[vasten]

So we had temps in the 50's yesterday so it was a good day to let the stove cool and remove the door gasket.

From the perspective at looking at the stove from the front... the upper right hand side of the door the gasket came out in fine pieces almost 1-2 threads at a time. As i worked my was across the top it finally started to come out as expected as rope. When I got the to bottom left hand side it looked black on the metal around this corner as if air was getting in and cooling the smoke, VS the rest of the stove door being a medium brown.

Once I had the gasket and gasket cement removed, I used a piece of scotch brite pad to remove the powdery rust on the hinge pins and top and bottom of each hinge. When I rest the door I noticed it closes now with 0 resistance on the handle. I can actually move the door about a 1/4" +/- on the latch side. I can lift the handle with one finger to the 11:00 position and it will drop freely to the 3:00 position on its own.

I am thinking this is not enough resistance on the latch as it should make a tight seal with firm resistance on the handle. I am considering running a bead of weld down the latch inside the stove to build it up to add more pressure to the latch making a tighter seal.

 

[coaly]

Very common when the latch is over tightened. Heat the bend on the latch rod inside. A propane torch is enough. When glowing, bend the angle sharper into a 90* angle. A short pipe, box wrench or adjustable wrench works fine. It doesn't take much. It bends easily cold and many make the mistake of doing it that way. If you do it cold, when it heats, it will tend to straighten back out again.
Notice there is a wedge welded inside door frame for latch rod to tighten against. The angle of the bend will determine the angle of handle when latched since the handle doesn't have to move as far to tighten.

 

[vasten]

I tried the propane on it and it didnt get it hot enough. Think I need to leave it on a lot longer.

My question is that with my baffle in place you mentioned the stove tops should reverse the lower being the cook top and the upper being the simmer however even when I build my fire in the front using 18 in logs. I am still seeing significantly higher temps in the rear of the top than the front.

Is my baffle plate in correctly?