Hybrids are in

[begreen]

You are talking about that route you take in the Mountain West with very sketchy DCFC coverage. Yeah... I wouldn't drive that one!

This is pretty much all of eastern Oregon, parts of Nevada, Montana, the Dakotas, and Wyoming too. These areas are where a hybrid is a much better bet.
There are other scenarios that happen when people do human things like forget to charge prior to a trip, or get stuck in a snowstorm, use more power than anticpated climbing mountain passes, or plan on a charger along the route to be available and it's broken or another car is parked and using the solo charger, etc. In all these cases, getting a can of gas is time consuming, but doable. Not so easy with an EV unless one reaches the top of the pass on stray electrons and then can build charge via regen on the way down.

 

[woodgeek]

This is pretty much all of eastern Oregon, parts of Nevada, Montana, the Dakotas, and Wyoming too. These areas are where a hybrid is a much better bet.
There are other scenarios that happen when people do human things like forget to charge prior to a trip, or get stuck in a snowstorm, use more power than anticpated climbing mountain passes, or plan on a charger along the route to be available and it's broken or another car is parked and using the solo charger, etc. In all these cases, getting a can of gas is time consuming, but doable. Not so easy with an EV unless one reaches the top of the pass on stray electrons and then can build charge via regen on the way down.

I agree that I would still worry about roadtripping BEVs in large parts of the Mountain West. When there are solid DCFCs every 50 miles... that would be aok!

Those other scenarios are significantly overstated IMO. Forget to charge... hit a DCFC close to home, or leave a couple hours later. Storms and traffic lead to lower speeds and greater range. DCFCs have multiple stalls per station, and are designed to still run at 25 kW when 'broken' much of the time. And waiting in line to charge is not the same as being stranded on the roadside. I have waited in line for gasoline many times on roadtrips (on congested I-95).

 

[begreen]

Those other scenarios are significantly overstated IMO. Forget to charge... hit a DCFC close to home, or leave a couple hours later.

Humans are humans. This scenario hit some friends in Phoenix a month ago. In the excitement of company and showing off his new EV, he forgot to charge as they headed up into the mountains for some hiking. It was cold up there and the heat came on. No chargers up where they went. If it weren't for regen on the trip back they might have been sol. The same thing could happen in an ICE vehicle, it's just easier to to get gas than electrons if one runs out. Out west DCFCs are less common on less traveled routes and things are much father apart than on the east coast. Many spots and towns just have one or two L2 chargers at a library, car dealer, etc., if any.

 

[peakbagger]

I was at a local EV show run by a community group this morning (before the rain came) and there were lot of folks checking out the "EVs" It was actually a mix of plug in Hybrids and EVs, including a Tesla Cybertruck. I caught a ride with my friend in his Ford Lighting but should have brought my RAV 4 prime as there was none there. In general my observations is the general public is clueless on the difference between a plug in hybrid versus a true EV. In most cases, they were looking for an around town vehicle where a plug in would serve them well and most expressed range anxiety for long distance trip as being a no go about buying a EV, unfortunately that broad brush included plus in hybrids where range anxiety is not an issue. I think some folks learned the difference and expect that they would be very interested in their next vehicle being a plug in. It was apparent to me at this event and others I have attended that there needs to be a lot of consumer education on the difference.

I didnt get a lot of time to look at the Cybertruck as the event was held at a private motorsports park where EV drivers could give demo rides around the track, its not open to the public (no spectator seating) and the Cybertruck owner was giving a lot of low speed rides. IMHO, it sets a low bar for other companies to come up with more stylish designs but no accounting for taste.

The other interesting thing was a local entrepreneur, had their "soon to be patented" mobile charging station, a small van with a 15 KW generator on a pull out tray in the back with a selection of charger cords. The beefiest cord they had was level 2 charger. No onboard storage so not a very practical alternative for full EV with a 150 Amp battery. At best it might get someone enough power to limp to the nearest charge station which in my area could easily be 30 miles. I and my electrical engineer friend could not envision what was patentable, but anyone can apply for a patent and use it as part of marketing pitch. My guess is if it does not exist yet, there will be nationwide network of providers for emergency charging like AAA. Unless someone has a gas turbine helicopter engine/generator on a trailer, I dont see mobile DC superchargers ever becoming something common.

 

[begreen]

This solution was made ten years ago

https://insideevs.com/news/322079/meet-the-real-power-95000-mobile-quick-charge-truck/

Sparkcharge is a modern service:

SparkCharge

www.sparkcharge.io

A level 2 charge cord mated to a generator has been around for awhile too

Blink Introduces Portable, Mobile EV Charger for Roadside Use

Running out of juice no longer requires a tow to the nearest charger, but it does require a substantial cash outlay.

www.caranddriver.com

And several mobile systems are out. I suspect that AAA might have one on a truck if demand is high. Here's an example:

Mobile EV Charging Stations, Portable DC Fast Chargers - EVESCO

EVESCO's mobile EV charging stations provide DC fast charging for electric vehicles. Fully mobile and portable EV chargers. Discover more

www.power-sonic.com

There are even some movable DC charging stations

Lightning Mobile - EVSE on the go! | Lightning eMotors

Lightning Mobile is a DC Fast Charge system that can be installed in a van or trailer, so you can support your fleet of commercial EVs.

lightningemotors.com

 

[stoveliker]

I've seen many pics of such truck+trailer+generator mobile charging units.
Mostly on websites mocking climate sciene, EVs, PV, and a host of other (here) nonmentionables.

 

[peakbagger]

My solar trailer could be run as a mobile charging station. Kind of heavy but its got 250KWH of fork lift batteries and a backup diesel.

 

[stoveliker]

I'd cut out or blur your license plate.

 

[woodgeek]

I was at a local EV show run by a community group this morning (before the rain came) and there were lot of folks checking out the "EVs" It was actually a mix of plug in Hybrids and EVs, including a Tesla Cybertruck. I caught a ride with my friend in his Ford Lighting but should have brought my RAV 4 prime as there was none there. In general my observations is the general public is clueless on the difference between a plug in hybrid versus a true EV. In most cases, they were looking for an around town vehicle where a plug in would serve them well and most expressed range anxiety for long distance trip as being a no go about buying a EV, unfortunately that broad brush included plus in hybrids where range anxiety is not an issue. I think some folks learned the difference and expect that they would be very interested in their next vehicle being a plug in. It was apparent to me at this event and others I have attended that there needs to be a lot of consumer education on the difference.

I suspect there are a lot of differences between regions. I would've described the EV show I went to in 2015 in the same way. When I was in Northern Vermont last month for the eclipse, I can't recall seeing any EVs there, other than maybe a couple Teslas, in a whole day of driving. I left my BEV at home... and took the 2015 Volt.

I think consumer education often occurs via a social network, when your friend gets an EV.

In my local neighborhood, it seems every 10th car is an EV or a PHEV. I see other Bolts most days on my commute, and lots of Rivians and ID.4s, and too many Tesla's to count, of all 4 models. Haven't seen a Highland or a Cyber in the wild yet.

State by state adoption rates here:

How Many Electric Vehicles Are in the United States? (2024)

Over 2 million electric cars are operating in the US today. This report covers the EV market, state-by-state trends, owner demographics, and future projections.

explodingtopics.com

 

[bogieb]

I suspect there are a lot of differences between regions. I would've described the EV show I went to in 2015 in the same way. When I was in Northern Vermont last month for the eclipse, I can't recall seeing any EVs there, other than maybe a couple Teslas, in a whole day of driving. I left my BEV at home... and took the 2015 Volt.

I think consumer education often occurs via a social network, when your friend gets an EV.

In my local neighborhood, it seems every 10th car is an EV or a PHEV. I see other Bolts most days on my commute, and lots of Rivians and ID.4s, and too many Tesla's to count, of all 4 models. Haven't seen a Highland or a Cyber in the wild yet.

State by state adoption rates here:

How Many Electric Vehicles Are in the United States? (2024)

Over 2 million electric cars are operating in the US today. This report covers the EV market, state-by-state trends, owner demographics, and future projections.

explodingtopics.com

I know NH, in their advice for those coming to view the eclipse, was NOT to bring their electric car as electric stations are few and far between (and those aren't fast chargers). With traffic backing up 7+hours to get back out. I'm sure there were a few electric vehicles that had issues and reports were there were huge lines at a charging station with a several hour wait.

Not saying gas vehicle didn't have any of their own issues,

 

[woodgeek]

It took me 7 hours to get to Albany. And I didn't have to stop bc I had a 5 gal Jerry can of electrons, um, gasoline in the back, just in case.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

I just picked up a new Honda CR-V Hybrid to replace my worn out 2009 Civic Hybrid. If they'd had a plug-in version of the CR-V, I'd have probably given that a try but with my 50 mile/day commute it probably wouldn't have made a huge difference. I looked at the Rav4 Prime but it did not interest me.
I hated every mile in the Civic and regretted getting the hybrid version of that year. The CR-V really shows how far along hybrid technology and batteries have come in the last 15 years.

 

[stoveliker]

I just picked up a new Honda CR-V Hybrid to replace my worn out 2009 Civic Hybrid. If they'd had a plug-in version of the CR-V, I'd have probably given that a try but with my 50 mile/day commute it probably wouldn't have made a huge difference. I looked at the Rav4 Prime but it did not interest me.
I hated every mile in the Civic and regretted getting the hybrid version of that year. The CR-V really shows how far along hybrid technology and batteries have come in the last 15 years.

Interesting. Could you explain why you didn't like the hybrid Civic?

(While I intend to drive my v. small ICE car until it is financially not smart to fix old-age problems, I am looking at the market for PHEV or BEV small cars - and with dismay about the decrease in smaller models on the current market, though that dip may be temporary.)

 

[TheElementalCashew]

Interesting. Could you explain why you didn't like the hybrid Civic?

(While I intend to drive my v. small ICE car until it is financially not smart to fix old-age problems, I am looking at the market for PHEV or BEV small cars - and with dismay about the decrease in smaller models on the current market, though that dip may be temporary.)

There were a few reasons, some personal and some mechanical.

I'm 6'1" and getting in and out of the car was more or less falling into it and hauling myself back out. The interior was cramped for my size as well, and the seats had terrible support for any length of driving.
Mechanically, it was a reliable car though it was near to needing a new hybrid battery when I sold it ($1500). However, it was very underpowered and that combined with the awful CVT meant I was constantly maintaining high RPM while driving through the hilly region in which I live and work. Again this was more of a "me" problem, as I'm sure it would have been well suited for commuting within a city or suburban environment. In any case, I kept it for quite a while and got my money's worth before back problems and a larger family pushed me to move to a larger vehicle.

I don't think the IMA hybrid Hondas of that generation are comparable to modern hybrids. I know the battery technology is much better now, and the eCVT in the CR-V I bought is worlds better than the traditional CVT in the old Civic (I'm not sure if modern hybrid Civics use an eCVT as well).

 

[stoveliker]

Thanks for the detail.
I'm 6'3" and I noticed that some small cars have very little head room or other (driver) room, but mine is great. Much better than the larger 2003 Focus I had before.

In any case, thanks for the details. They do seem specific to that generation of that model.

 

[peakbagger]

FWIW, even my Rav 4 Prime suffers from the leaned back windshield issue. It took me awhile to avoid hitting my head getting in and out and I am 5'10. I warn all passengers before getting in the passenger side seat as they have the same issue. Once inside there is good headroom even with the sunroof that was forced on early buyers but windshield angle is big aerodynamic issue and a styling issue. Just a bit of lean on the windshield yields less drag. Look at almost any styling exercise for a new car and the windshield is usually sloped way down low but when it comes to production, it is lifted up to make it practical.

 

[semipro]

It took me awhile to avoid hitting my head getting in and out and I am 5'10.

Same here with my RAV4.

 

[EbS-P]

Thanks for the detail.
I'm 6'3" and I noticed that some small cars have very little head room or other (driver) room, but mine is great. Much better than the larger 2003 Focus I had before.

In any case, thanks for the details. They do seem specific to that generation of that model.

Say what you will about Elon but I’ve been driving a Model 3 RWD loaner around since Friday. I’m impressed. It’s a 21 with 21k miles and 256 miles of range. It’s a bit low to the ground coming from Minivans, RAV4, Model X , but once seated it is a really roomy interior. Leg room for miles. Seat was all the way back and steering wheel all the way forward and I could reach the pedals and had to lean forward to reach the wheel. Seats are nice. The adjustable steering assist is nice. It’s quite remarkable how just requiring more force to turn the wheel makes you think this is a sportier car. Compressor noise is my biggest complaint. The suspension was great.

I’m of the opinion now that a Model 3 lite that gets stripped down to its bare essentials is a Camry, Corolla, civic, Accord killer. It doesn’t need 275 HP or 275 miles of range or full self driving, or great speakers or LED lights or a second screen for passengers. But that’s the market where the profit is at.

It really is the best driving car I’ve ever driven. It’s better than the model X IMO. It’s more nimble less lumbering behemoth. (Normal school dropoff run the X it well over 6600 pounds)

Don’t get me started on Tesla Service though. I’ll probably end up with an ID Buzz in the next 24 months. ( Or a 7 seat model X if forget how awful it is to live 2.5 hours from a service center that doesn’t have appointments for 4 weeks and takes 3 days to do a 1 day repair).

 

[begreen]

Don’t get me started on Tesla Service though. I’ll probably end up with an ID Buzz in the next 24 months. ( Or a 7 seat model X if forget how awful it is to live 2.5 hours from a service center that doesn’t have appointments for 4 weeks and takes 3 days to do a 1 day repair).

Kia EV9?

 

[EbS-P]

Kia EV9?

Third row access didn’t look easy. It’s an option

 

[EbS-P]

Did some research on the new Sienna AWD. It’s an electric rear axel. I guess for a FWD hybrid option it makes sense. Since Everyone but GM has current hybrids in production I’m guessing we will see a lot more of this.

Specifically I was thinking about Ford and their Transit van. They have the Hybrid F150 With crazy power numbers. An eTransit power train. Will we see a hybrid full-size van. Really if you had all the inverters that the hybrid F150 has this would make a great camper van conversion or work van. Add AWD option and I’m all in.

 

[begreen]

Yes, everyone suddenly is on the hybrid bandwagon, even BYD in China. GM is reacting instead of leading.

 

[blades]

it is a range thing. once you out of a metro area you are pretty much screwed to find a charger . Regenerative charging isn't going to help much when cruising down interstate in Tim-Buc-Tu.