How Much to Wire Small Bathroom

[bag of hammers]

+1 on the great job. Don't feel bad, when I fire up my roto zip people run for cover. You gotta run them a bit to get the knack, it can walk away on you depending on which way you run the cut. And I also turned on the main supply valve with a bathroom supply open when I did my bathroom reno last Sept - toilet supply - caught it before it made too much mess, but still a face palm moment for me. It just wouldn't be the same if I didn't throw in 1 or 2 stupid human tricks in my projects .

 

[Buzz Saw]

Vinny, some where in this thread you talked about your plumbing vents. I believe you used 3/4" or 1" pvc for vents. Is this to code in your area? Is this the new norm for venting?

 

[vinny11950]

Vinny, some where in this thread you talked about your plumbing vents. I believe you used 3/4" or 1" pvc for vents. Is this to code in your area? Is this the new norm for venting?

You are right, I did redo all the PVC drains. I stuck to code on all of them except for one - the 1/2 bath sink drain. I upgraded the drain size from 1 1/2 inch to 2 inch (as required by code), but gave it a 1 1/4 vent pipe (code requires to use next size down, so I should have used 1 1/2). I did this because the vent pipe went through two main studs on a wall that will support heavy tiles, so I wanted to make the holes through the studs as small as possible.



My post 46 better explains this. I installed the sink and have been using it for a few weeks without any issues. What I am realizing as I do the work in this 1970s home is that updating it to current code is very difficult at times because current codes require different designs altogether. In this instance, this wall should have been a 2 x 6 wall to allow more room for the plumbing. Instead it is 2 x 4. Don't know if it was designed like this or if someone added this 1/2 bath later on and didn't think about it.

 

[mwhitnee]

Bathrooms don't have to be on arc faults, yet.

burnam are you sure this is 100% true in MA?? This would be good news as I had a shared bedroom/bathroom circuit (wiring/addition is 14 years old) and often times when I turned on the ceiling fan in my bedroom the arc fault breaker blew and it was extremely annoying. I replaced it with a regular breaker and all is good. The bathroom outlet is a GFI.

 

[burnham]

burnam are you sure this is 100% true in MA?? This would be good news as I had a shared bedroom/bathroom circuit (wiring/addition is 14 years old) and often times when I turned on the ceiling fan in my bedroom the arc fault breaker blew and it was extremely annoying. I replaced it with a regular breaker and all is good. The bathroom outlet is a GFI.

That article of code lists several areas that have to be arc-fault protected, and calls for similar areas to be protected. It doesn't call for areas like bathrooms or basements. It isn't very clear, but I think the intention is for living spaces and kitchens to be covered.

As far as your situation goes. If the circuit feeds both a bedroom and a bathroom, the circuit has to have arc fault protection if it was wired at a time arc fault breakers were required, or if there was additional wiring done during that time. I don't think we were installing any arc fault breakers 14 years ago, did you change a regular breaker to arc fault? Arc fault breakers can be a real pain in the ass. I don't know a single electrician who has installed any in their own house that didn't have to.

 

[mwhitnee]

That article of code lists several areas that have to be arc-fault protected, and calls for similar areas to be protected. It doesn't call for areas like bathrooms or basements. It isn't very clear, but I think the intention is for living spaces and kitchens to be covered.

As far as your situation goes. If the circuit feeds both a bedroom and a bathroom, the circuit has to have arc fault protection if it was wired at a time arc fault breakers were required, or if there was additional wiring done during that time. I don't think we were installing any arc fault breakers 14 years ago, did you change a regular breaker to arc fault? Arc fault breakers can be a real pain in the ass. I don't know a single electrician who has installed any in their own house that didn't have to.

It had an arc fault breaker when I moved in and I had to take it out (then used a regular breaker). It was tripping every other time I turned the ceiling fan on. It was just so sensitive. I would have to go from the 2nd floor to the basement every time it happened.

 

[vinny11950]

I have yet to install any in my home, but I have read some models/brands are more sensitive than others.

 

[vinny11950]

Well, whatever life my trusty (6 year old) Dewalt variable speed lithium battery drill had, I spent it about 3 weeks ago. I bent the chuck when I dropped it and the batteries don't last much now. So with my more screws to drive, I bought a $40 Ryobi variable speed corded drill. Plenty of constant power.

I wanted to protect the main vent stack against nails or screws, so I sistered a slightly recessed stud next to the stud to the right of the vent. This allow me to screw in protection plates all the way down to the height of the toilet (can't see why anyone would drill back there).

 

[vinny11950]

Added more blocking and sound proofing to the walls.



Added the recessed toilet bracket.

.

 

[vinny11950]

I was dreading mudding the walls and ceiling, but it had to be done. Took me one day and a half.

I finished hanging up all the drywall that there will be in the bathroom, and some of the cement board to allow me to mud the corners too.





In the shower corners I used mortar (wet areas with tiles over them) and cement board fiber tape, and the rest I did with Durabond 90.



I set the corners with Durabond and tape, let it harden, then hit the corners again with Durabond. Once that hardened, I gave it all a coat of Durabond, followed by a coat of Easysand 90.







At the bottoms of the drywall, you see small slivers of uncoated material - I did this on purpose because that will be the transition between the drywall and cement board, covered up with tile. And the seams get filled with thinset but you do that at the same time you tile, so it gets done in one shot.

I have to say working with hot mud is tough to do because you have to be fast to apply it before it sets. Even after 30 minutes, the thin residue of mud that gathers on the knife begins to harden and can start to break off into the mud and gouge it as you smooth it out. The first big coat of Durabond that I did, I mixed in that bucket (8 cups of water, about a 1 to 2.5 ratio), and I raced to apply it on the ceiling and walls. By the bottom of the bucket it was coming up with too many hardened bits. So I had to trash the rest. Then I started working in smaller batches, mixing 2 cups of water in the mud pan. That was the perfect amount to apply with enough time to make it look right.

I will let it dry, sand it a bit, and then apply a top coat.

 

[vinny11950]

Threw my back out for a week (while sleeping!).

When I got back to work I sanded the mud walls first with 150 grit paper - got pretty close to smooth on most parts. What a mess drywall dust makes. Cleaned that up, and applied the premixed top coat on the spots that looked uneven and with dimples (mostly skylight). Not impressed with the premixed stuff because it is so soft after it dries. My finger nail scratches it easily. Anyway, sanded that coat down and called it a day.



Now it was time to install the 3/4 inch floor grade T&G plywood. I went with this product that is floor specific; it has two sides 1) is coated with a waxy paint to protect against moisture during construction, and 2) the other side is regular exposed plywood. Since I am going to install a plastic uncoupling membrane over the plywood using a modified thinset mortar, the regular plywood side has to be facing up.



For max strength, the long side of the plywood has to be perpendicular to the floor joists. After measuring all the layout possibilities for stress points, I decided the best way to lay it down was in 3 pieces.

First I drew a grid to show me the joist runs.



Then just starting screwing around with the help of some liquid nails.



Good thing I had this long vice to help bring the T&G together (with the help of the BFH and a block of wood).









Cutting and measuring out the membrane.

 

[vinny11950]

Installed the bathtub and the wall niches.

For the tub, I decided to drill the screws through the flange rather than having the screws over the flange with the fender washers. I tried it with the screws over the flange and they did not sit close enough to the wall to be below the cement board. I used a metal drill bit and then painted it with some enameled paint a had in the basement. I then used an unmodified mortar to bed the bottom of the tub. Came out really strong.





Used the old water line to fill it up to full weight while I walked on it. Really solid.

 

[vinny11950]

After making sure the tub was secure it was time to make sense of the shower valves to do the whole bathroom plumbing.



I am using a mixing valve and a diverter valve. I first cut and dry fit the mixing valve which allowed me to then take the valve off and solder it on the vice.





Soldering heavy brass pieces takes more heat for longer periods to get the solder to run smooth. I felt more comfortable doing it on the vice.

Once it cooled I set it on the wall and started setting up the remaining connections.





Plumbed in some connections for a couple of arrestors just for the hell of it (go big or go home).







Making all the connections was tougher than expected because the L type copper pipes I got at HD where really tight fits into the fittings. On top of cutting, deburring and polishing the connections, I had to sand them down enough so as to fit them together. Took me about 12 hours to be able to turn on the water again. Thought I would be done by 6pm the latest and finished around 11pm. This also included the plumbing for the toilet and sink. I kept walking up and down to the basement making sure nothing shifted - the one time I didn't the toilet supply pipe had rolled in the joint after I soldered it and was crooked - had to cut it out and reset it.

Luckily no leaks... so far....

 

[Lake Girl]

What a mess drywall dust makes.

That's why you get the vacuum sanding block for your shop vac and leave water in the bottom of the vac to trap the dust. Sorry I was too late with the advice but for next time

 

[vinny11950]

vacuum sanding block for your shop vac and leave water in the bottom of the vac to trap the dust.

It didn't even occur to me to think of such a contraption. Thanks for the advice, Lake Girl, I will use it next time (there is always something to patch.)

 

[vinny11950]

Haven't updated this for a while partly because I was sick of the project and because my camera started malfunctioning and would only take good pictures once in a while.

I used a rubbery membrane, used for window waterproofing, to protect against water getting thru the cement board and bathtub lip/flange.





Then I hung cement board on the shower walls,top to bottom, and on the bottom half of the outside walls which got covered with tile too.



I put on the shower valves to test that the valve bodies were not set too far back in the wall studs. They were not. Had they been, now would have been the time to move them.

Then I used quick set mortar to tape and mud the joints. They say it helps prevent tile cracking. Cutting all the holes in the cement board for the fixtures was a PITA too but I got pretty good at measuring the cuts and then using a jig saw to cut them outside on a couple of saw horses. I only screwed up one piece - off by 1/2 an inch (story of my life )

 

[vinny11950]

Then I started applying the liquid waterproofing membrane (Hydro ban by Laticrete) on the shower walls. Quality stuff.

On the corners and around the niche borders I also used the anti fracture fiberglass fabric.







The membrane is supposed to have a specified thickness range which can be measured using a gauge (which I didn't have) or by eyeballing the surface to see if any of the cb writing can be seen thru the membrane (it should not be visible). As you can see, if you look closely, the writing at the top 1/3 can be vaguely seen and that is because I was running out of the liquid and sacrificed some from the top (which shouldn't get much water) to apply it at the bottom 2/3s (which will get most of the water).

Then I started tiling.







I had bought the wall tiles months ago. I thought it would be simple enough to cut them. I was wrong. The tile is thick and really hard, so when scoring and snapping them, they would break off unevenly. I wasted about 3 boxes of tiles because of this. In hind sight, I should have bought a few samples and tried cutting them first. This would have led me to find another tile. Anyway, I made it happen.

 

[vinny11950]

Even after everything was tiled, it still took me a few more weeks to grout and hang all the fixtures.



Getting the toilet installed was a symbolic moment of triumph as this whole project started because the old toilet was cracked and the floor below rotted out. I tried patching it but the surrounding tiles just came off.








Drilling through the thick tile was a pain. 20 minutes a whole (spraying water on the bit and all).

 

[vinny11950]

The wall tiling is not perfect. It has lippage and some odd small pieces, but for a DIY project it is good enough. I am happy the bathroom is waterproofed correctly, the framing above the bathroom fixed, the insulation added, plumbing new, and electrical fixed right.

It took me much longer than expected. So the basement bathroom was a life saver allowing for the master bath to be out of service for so long. The Liberty sewage pump I installed in the basement bathroom sewage tank last summer performed like a champ.

Things I would do differently:

1) Like I said, I would have picked an easier tile to work with for the walls.

2) I bought my mortars ahead of time thinking I would save time, but as the project stretched out in time some of the mortars reached their expiration dates so I had to dump them (better safe than sorry).

3) I forgot to make sure the floor tiles under the toilet were perfectly even so my toilet rocked a tiny bit so I had to shim it and silicone it.

All good in the end.

 

[vinny11950]

I forgot to add a big thank you to all that advised and supported me with this project. Could not have done it without it, especially the electrical guys.

 

[firefighterjake]

My father-in-law used to say that oftentimes projects would not be perfect and that typically the guy doing the job would be the only one to notice any flaws . . .

He also would say if a person did notice any flaws, oftentimes they were looking for problems since so often the flaws the builder sees are not always so obvious to anyone else.

I think your bathroom came out quite nice.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Working on my own bathroom remodel as well. It is coming together! Heated floor tile. Granite bench and curbs. Small stone slate floor. When it is done, I'll post up some pics.

Ripped the room to the studs. Reframed. Replumbed everything. Did a ton of wiring. Lots of fun.

 

[vinny11950]

My father-in-law used to say that oftentimes projects would not be perfect and that typically the guy doing the job would be the only one to notice any flaws . . .

He also would say if a person did notice any flaws, oftentimes they were looking for problems since so often the flaws the builder sees are not always so obvious to anyone else.

I think your bathroom came out quite nice.

Thanks Jake. I guess it's a bit like cooking a big meal - in the end every one thinks it tastes great while you think it's just okay.

 

[vinny11950]

Working on my own bathroom remodel as well. It is coming together! Heated floor tile. Granite bench and curbs. Small stone slate floor. When it is done, I'll post up some pics.

Ripped the room to the studs. Reframed. Replumbed everything. Did a ton of wiring. Lots of fun.
View attachment 184234 View attachment 184235

Looks really nice. How's that bench supported?

 

[sportbikerider78]

On 3 sides by the cement board, mortar and tile that it rests on. It is a proven technique...and has the benefit of not having a box to make and gives a more open look. Plus, you don't have to worry about any water getting into the box and causing an issue. The entire shower is completely sealed 2 x with waterproofing.