How Do I Restore An Old Papa Bear Door

[Todd67]

Thanks for the info and tips coaly! I'll work on the Papa some more today. I'll take a closer look at the draft cap bolts as well.

 

[Todd67]

New old stock;

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Does this mean that the ball was just pushed onto the door handle rod? The chrome ball in your picture appears to have a small hole in it for a set screw, which my Baby Bear chrome ball does not have. Thanks for the pics!

I'll try to get a good pic of the Papa door handle. There might be just enough rod left to make threads for a threaded chrome ball.

 

[Don H]

Looks threaded to me, there appears to be a chamfer on the ball. Try a little heat, maybe they used Locktite on it.

Sometimes the draft caps won't open enough to get a wrench between the cap and door. For the inside nut on the draft cap I have an old 3/4" wrench that I ground down flat to fit in there.

 

[coaly]

That's called a tappet wrench. They are very thin to break loose the thin lock nuts used on valve adjusters, or tappets on older engines.
I have a socket ground down on the outside to fit into the draft cap well when the bolt is adjusted too far in too.
The original hardware was not hardened, so it is very workable with a grinder or drill.
On the Papa with a replaced draft cap, look on the head for any marks like lines showing the hardness. No marks is a soft bolt, like it should be. 3 lines is grade 5 which is hardened, but not near as hard as a bolt with many lines which is grade 8. That is case hardened and extremely hard to drill.

 

[Todd67]

Looks threaded to me, there appears to be a chamfer on the ball. Try a little heat, maybe they used Locktite on it.

Sometimes the draft caps won't open enough to get a wrench between the cap and door. For the inside nut on the draft cap I have an old 3/4" wrench that I ground down flat to fit in there.

I agree on the threaded ball on the Baby Bear. I was trying to remove the ball before I painted it, but I ended up covering it with painters tape.

I have some old wrenches I could modify if I need to. Thanks!

 

[Todd67]

That's called a tappet wrench. They are very thin to break loose the thin lock nuts used on valve adjusters, or tappets on older engines.
I have a socket ground down on the outside to fit into the draft cap well when the bolt is adjusted too far in too.
The original hardware was not hardened, so it is very workable with a grinder or drill.
On the Papa with a replaced draft cap, look on the head for any marks like lines showing the hardness. No marks is a soft bolt, like it should be. 3 lines is grade 5 which is hardened, but not near as hard as a bolt with many lines which is grade 8. That is case hardened and extremely hard to drill.

Thanks coaly!

 

[Todd67]

I had to twist on the bottom hinge pin with vise grips. After working on the pin for over 20 minutes (maybe 30 minutes) I was finally able to knock the pin out with a hammer and punch. So now the door is in my heated basement (I keep it at 51 degrees).

The only nuts on the draft caps are these two inside the door


There aren't any nuts on the "front" side.

 

[coaly]

OK, there should be nuts on both sides of the door...... So if the inside nuts are not welded which you should be able to see, you should be able to hold the bolt from turning with a socket and loosen the inside nut without putting any pressure on the door. If the nut won't budge, I would grind it off if you have an angle grinder or cut off wheel.

 

[Todd67]

I just took some pics to show the inside of the draft cap, and the front side of the door where the 2nd nut is located on my early Baby Bear & my Coal Bear.

There is no nut here

Or here inside the draft cap. Just the threaded insert (maybe)

 

[Todd67]

I have both, an angle grinder & a cut-off tool if I need to go that route.

Also, if I close the draft caps all the way I can easily get a socket or wrench on the head of the bolt.

 

[Don H]

Interesting penetrating oil test.

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[Todd67]

Yes indeed! I've watched several of his videos. He is the reason I am trying WD-40 on my Papa and Grandpa Bear stoves. WD-40 & PB Blaster gave very similar results, and a gallon of WD-40 is nearly half the cost of a gallon of PB Blaster.

 

[Don H]

Here's a tip my Dad, a retired machinist taught me to get stuck bolts loose. I used this method last year on a stuck draft bolt. I took the door off and laid it on the bench with the inside up. Applied Liquid Wrench to the nut. Tap with a punch and hammer repeatedly for a minute or two. Do this several times keeping penetrating oil on the nut.

The tapping sends out vibrations which helps the oil get down into the threads.

I also like the heat method coaly shared.

 

[Todd67]

Thanks for the tip! Are you tapping on the center of the bolt (threaded side) or the nut. I'm assuming on the center of the bolt, since you are using a punch.

 

[Don H]

Center of bolt but if you had a situation where you didn't have access to it then hitting the nut would work too.

 

[Todd67]

Thanks for the clarification!

I found a video that compares rust removers, on rusty railroad spikes. I don't know if these products are safe to use on cast iron doors and older wood stoves, but interesting results anyway.

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[Todd67]

Just an update, I'll be working this week on removing the nuts and bolts on the door. I'll try the socket in boiling water because no other method has worked yet.

 

[Todd67]

I closed the draft caps all the way, then tightened the bolt heads in my bench vise. Obviously, the door was not on the stove at the time. I tried a hot socket and nothing would budge. I then drilled out one of the bolts. The nut came off real easy but my hole wasn't perfectly centered. No big deal, I'll try my cutoff tool on the other nut & bolt. I cut a slot through the nut & bolt, deep enough to almost grind the door. The nut actually twisted off the bolt, great! So, since the bolt head was secured in my vise, I applied very little twisting pressure on the door to unscrew it from the bolt. That's when I realized that the center section of the hole was completely separated from the door. It appears that someone cracked the door when they put the newer 5-fin draft caps on the door.

No way to fix that. No big deal because this is strictly a display stove. My plan is to attach two pipe caps over the damper holes and "cosmetically" make the stove look original. It's not what I had planned, but the door is more cracked than I originally thought, and that leaves me with very few options at this point.

I'll post pics later.

 

[Don H]

You can weld cast iron. It's not as easy as welding steel but a good welder could do it for you.

 

[Todd67]

You can weld cast iron. It's not as easy as welding steel but a good welder could do it for you.

I've considered welding the piece back in place, but the bolt on the broken piece is still rusted solid inside the threaded portion and won't turn at all. That will force me to leave the new draft caps on the door and keep me from "restoring" the door with the proper pipe cap dampers.

I've had PB Blaster on those rusted bolts for 10 months now and none of it penetrated down to where I removed the nut. I sprayed the newly exposed threads last night with WD-40 and I'll try to spin that broken piece off the bolt later today. When I buy the pipe caps I'll also pick up a few welding rods for cast iron. I'm not going to give up that easily, but I'm also preparing myself to accept the last option and semi-permanently affix the pipe caps over the damper holes.

There are a LOT of inconsistencies in the cast iron door, such as low spots/ridges where it looks like the mold wasn't smooth, or where the molten iron didn't fill the mold all the way, both on the front and back of the door. I'll try to capture what I'm talking about with some pics and post them later. I've never seen those inconsistencies on any of my doors with the trees on them. I studied welding, machining and casting aluminum for four years in high school. It was many years ago but I haven't forgotten too much of what I learned. This door has the look and feel of a "first batch" of doors that had some flaws, and maybe that's why it cracked in the first place. We'll never know for sure...

 

[Todd67]

Here are some pics that show the extensive cracks on the door. Notice the section missing from the draft hole. It had no clean or bare metal on both ends where it separated from the hole, meaning it was already broken before I got it. Also notice all of the "valleys" in the door that look like cracks. These flaws make me think that this door is from a very early batch of doors, if not the first batch of doors.

For the first bolt, I drilled it out. But I didn't have the drill bit exactly centered. On the second bolt, I cut a slot in the nut and bolt with my cutoff tool.

The bolt is still rusted to the broken section of the draft hole

 

[Todd67]

I've got the broken part and bolt/draft cap soaking in Evapo-rust to see if I can get the bolt to spin out of the cast iron part.

I bought the black iron pipe caps and 1/2" bolts so I can make the correct draft caps for this door. I'll update this thread as I make progress.

 

[Todd67]

The stove is painted and ready to be brought into the house.

The door is prepped for repairs. I'll use JB Weld original (profession size in 5oz tubes), to fill in the cracks on the door, front and back. I drilled two holes just beyond two of the cracks to help prevent the door from cracking more. While this is drying, I'll work on drilling the pipe caps for plug welding the bolts in place. I drilled and tapped the one remaining draft cap hole to 1/2"x13 threads.

The door is only 1/4" thick where I drilled the holes.

 

[Todd67]

The door has taken awhile to fix. I have a new welder that I haven't had time to use yet. So I couldn't get it dialed in late at night (outside) when I was trying to plug weld the draft caps to the bolts. So I put the welder away and cleaned up my tools and stove parts.

The next day I used JB Weld Professional to plug weld the first pipe cap draft cap, making sure it was centered over the draft cap hole. Success! Just not the way I preferred.

The next day, I plug welded the 2nd pipe cap draft cap, using the only intact draft cap hole on the door. Success again. While it was drying I cut down a piece of 1" wide x 1/4" thick flat iron, drilled and tapped it, and waited for the second draft cap to dry.

The next day it was time to replace the broken part of the door so that I could have two working draft caps. I assembled the draft cap to the drilled & tapped flat iron and used JB Weld to secure the flat iron in place. Success again.

Tomorrow I plan to smooth out the dried JB Weld, cut threads on the door handle for the chrome ball I bought for the door handle, and paint the door.

 

[Todd67]

The door is restored, to the best of my ability. Thank you @coaly for the suggestions and ideas!