Hopper Fire last night

[SmokeyTheBear]

I am following this thread carefully... I don't like that the cause is unknown

We have some of the ingredients.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Continuing on with the questions.

Is any fake fire brick in good condition and in place?

Are all ash trap covers installed?

 

[hossthehermit]

The stove was not on a t-stat it has 4 heat settings. It was on 2 then I topped off the hopper & set it to 3 before we went out. .

Are you a smoker? The first couple years that I burned pellets, I still smoked and I know a couple times a spark or hot ash would drop off a cigarette while I was filling the hopper ........

 

[LordmetalZ28]

He has an equivalent vent length of 15 in just the 90 degree bends alone and 9 in the vertical portion he is definately in 4" vent territory and creeping up on the overall limit.

If he has access to the flue at pellet stove exhaust vent level he would be better off entering the flue that way and 90 degrees and then up. That might even put him in 3" territory.

Then theres the problem. Your In def in the 4in territory and you knew that because of what manufacturer recommended. These recommendations are not there for fun and you could have hurt somebody. This is why home insurance is expensive. Sorry but it needed to be said. Im glad nobody got hurt or you didnt lose your home. I hope you make wiser decisions next time.

 

[LordmetalZ28]

Are you a smoker? The first couple years that I burned pellets, I still smoked and I know a couple times a spark or hot ash would drop off a cigarette while I was filling the hopper ........

Wow

 

[Eyball]

I know I should have run 4" the entire length & that's what I plan to do now. It was hooked up with a 3" T off the stove then about 45" vertical 90 elbow then 24" horizontal into increaser T then 18 feet vertical out top of masonry chimney. The 18' is 4" pipe. I can't enter the chimney anywhere else as its behind the poured concrete foundation & does not run to ground level anyway. It was installed to spec besides using some 3" pipe which I know was stupid on my part.

We were not home and nothing else was running in the house besides when the oil burner kicks on. What stumps me is a have burned about a ton with no problems.

All plates were in place in the stove.

 

[Eyball]

Oh, no smokers. This fire defenitly crept back from the fire box and from the looks of the burn box with lots of creosote it was burning with not much air. Almost like the pipe was plugged but it's not.

 

[Eyball]

If it matters, I was burning some high BTU pellets that night. PWI's then I topped off with Okanagen Douglas Fir before we went out.

 

[LordmetalZ28]

If you cant go thru your existing chimney you need to find another route weather the stove has to be moved to go thru the wall or thru the roof with another chimney. Its very important to follow the rules codes and specs to a tee.

 

[alternativeheat]

Oh, no smokers. This fire defenitly crept back from the fire box and from the looks of the burn box with lots of creosote it was burning with not much air. Almost like the pipe was plugged but it's not.

Well you are running in a restricted mode to begin with because the EVL isn't satisfied. You may have had a little or a fair amount of ash in the venting ( a lot of folks swish out their vents at the one ton mark) , not plugged but further restricting the flow. You have known negative draft issues. And you found a cover on the chute that may not have been sealed well. The stove doesn't have a hopper cover seal. It was the coldest out yet this year. And who knows what else that has not been determined yet. But just with this much, well you had a hopper fire so we don't need proof that something is pretty wrong here..

I'd like to know the cause of a negative draft with no other negative pull components on in the house. Natural draft. Why is the natural draft negative with an 18 ft rise ? My 26 ft of 4" will pull ash as I clean the pathway by the combustion blower. I can feel air rushing by my hand up the venting.. You really have air pushing in with nothing on in the house ? Have you checked that it's really negative ? Simple smoke test will do it or gas grill lighter. My venting almost sucks the flame out on a gas grill lighter. But I got to say sometimes with my hand it feels the other way around. It isn't though, feel is not a good test.

 

[Eyball]

I have to agree that all those items together probably led to this fire. Might be time for a stove with a locking hopper that deals tight. After I fix my venting to 4" all the way.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The reason that his flue is acting the way it is, is because it is likely that there are several other suckers in the house that are not helping his basement installation at all.

We likely have not yet found them all, the other heating system is one, his exhaust fans are others, recessed lighting fixtures fall under this category. Even the area around the PL vent in the chimney flue that he is running the stove through can get into the act.

I can even see the heating system lines between floors and a ton of ceiling and upper floor penetrations causing this situation.

Now I can cause my stove to smoke through its hopper, it is simple enough to cause.

Once again I want to help fix the situation

 

[hyfire]

You put a ton through the stove and never cleaned the 3" flue? Or am incorrect?

 

[alternativeheat]

If it matters, I was burning some high BTU pellets that night. PWI's then I topped off with Okanagen Douglas Fir before we went out.

I doubt that matters, they are really clean burning pellets.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Eyball you need to track down what amounts to chimney ways in your basement as well as taking care of the vent situation.

This is an envelope sealing operation and the damnedest things need to be sealed. You can use a smoke pencil to find some of them or any other method to locate drafts.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Incidentally this isn't the first case of this situation on here this season nor will it be the last.

You put a ton through the stove and never cleaned the 3" flue? Or am incorrect?

With some pellets this wouldn't in and of itself be an issue. A good DF pellet has a fifth of the ash of pellets that just meet the PFI premium standard.

 

[Eyball]

I should mention that my basement stairs to the room the stove is in is completely open into my kitchen above. Previous owners made the upstairs wall around the kitchen railing height to open up the kitchen. I can post a picture if it helps. I will test the draft with everything off tomorrow.

 

[Phoenix Hatchling]

Is your stove hooked up to a UPS for the event of a power outage? Perhaps there was a blackout which you were unaware of and caused the natural draft to be insufficient for the fire to burn out safely? I know with my set up it will allow for a safe shutdown and pulse the combustion blower to evacuate the smoke and burn the burnpot out. I always keep mine hooked up to an APC UPS.

 

[Eyball]

It's not on backup, but the power did not go out as no clocks were flashing. I had a power failure before and the stove just went out. No smoke in the house. One of reason I installed the oak was to give the stove the air it needed, or so I thought.

 

[F4jock]

It's not on backup, but the power did not go out as no clocks were flashing. I had a power failure before and the stove just went out. No smoke in the house. One of reason I installed the oak was to give the stove the air it needed, or so I thought.

OAK is only as good as its draft.

 

[Hdhogger]

You have to be very careful and attentive if you don,t have an OAK, which i don't. If your stove is running and the clothes dryer is also running you are pulling a substantial amount of air out of your home. Now say the range hood gets turned on and someone turns on a bathroom fan, your house is in negative pressure and things get turned around.
I tried to light my wood stove when other things were exhausting and it was a futile attempt. Had to shut the intake vents and wait for the range hood and dryer to be shut down. My house was built in 1979 so it's not the tightest but negative air still effects the burn. Newer homes are more sensitive as they are built tighter.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Eyball, has a list of things to do.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Wow

Hoss had a legitimate question.

 

[velvetfoot]

If the burn pot holes got clogged, could the pellets keep on coming and start a smouldering mess?

 

[Hdhogger]

Eyball, has a list of things to do.

A very long list. Maybe OAK isn't enough. I've known of homes that have needed combustion air units installed to keep a balanced pressure in them.