HIGHEST STOVE TEMPS, WHO HAS EM?

[Squisher]

That would be cool to see. Alas I don't have one either.

 

[Highbeam]

Yep, most of the heat is right around the cat unless I am burning down coals, then my sides will get hotter from radiation. I think that if Marshy were to pull the external shields and measure temps over the entire exterior of his stove, his King would have one of the lowest average temps per sq.in. of any stove, due to the internal heat shields in the fire box not allowing radiation against the sides at higher air settings.

I don't share your opinion. (How's that?) The internal heat shields are just like bricks on any other stove. You can see through the bypass lever hole on Marshy's flir photo that the sides of the stove under those external shields is also red (hot).

 

[Highbeam]

Because the op wants to know about heat output and the fact that you have a hot spot right over the cat and the rest of the top is considerably cooler has a huge effect on heat output. Like I said before I am not saying there is anything wrong with that but it just means that the op's idea of stove top temp determining heat output does not hold true.

You're right. The hot spot, even on marshy's full hot stove, is obviously centered over the cat. I don't find stove top temp info to be useful on my cat stove so I actually removed the meter. I found it was always the same temperature once the cat was activated. The size of that hot spot is the variable responsible for btu output. The cat is the main heat producer of the cat stove when burning at medium and low temperatures, the firebox is just a cold fuel tank spewing smoke up to the real "fire".

However, the non-cat is also not consistently hot over the entire top. My NC30 has a very obvious hot spot in the center of the step top. Anywhere else on the top is cooler. The heat engine on the non-cat is on the firebox side of the baffle, where the actual secondary combustion takes place. Glowing stainless steel tubes are really hot.

 

[maple1]

It doesn really matter how accurate it is because like we have all said stove top temps alone don't tell you anywhere near the whole story about heat output.

I thought he just wanted to know how hot it was. I.e. temp?

Or at least that's what my reading of his typing got me....

 

[Marshy]

Yep, most of the heat is right around the cat unless I am burning down coals, then my sides will get hotter from radiation. I think that if Marshy were to pull the external shields and measure temps over the entire exterior of his stove, his King would have one of the lowest average temps per sq.in. of any stove, due to the internal heat shields in the fire box not allowing radiation against the sides at higher air settings.

I wouldn't bet on it. I can shoot the FLIR through the edges of the outer shields and see a 6-700F surface temp above the fire bricks where the internal steel shields are.

Cat stoves are really meant to be run low. They are most efficient when the wood burns at a slow rate and the heat generated by the cat has time to exit the stove. Running your stove wide open, you are sending a ton of heat up the flue before the stove has a chance to absorb and transfer it. If you want to run at higher output, better to have a stove that allows radiation from the flame and coals to reach the side walls, and a full convective jacket where the blower also strips heat from the sides of the stove, not just the back and part of the top.
Call me yellow, but I wouldn't be comfortable running the front of the stove at 800+, even with the 1/4" steel I had there in the Buck 91...

I don't necessarily agree they are "meant to run low" but you might not be the only one that feels that way. I would agree they are more efficient at reducing emissions at lower settings but the stove is meant to operate at any range allowed by the air control (predetermined by the manufacture). In order to make more heat you need to burn more fuel, in order to burn more fuel you need to move air/exhaust and that exiting flue gas is going to take heat with it (i.e. less efficient). Its to be expected that the flue gas temperature is going to go up if you are burning the stove hotter, that applies to any wood burning appliance unless it has a condensing flue gas chamber which extracts the heat from the flue. The heat lost in up the flue on the King or presumably any other epa stove pails in comparison to the non-epa stoves so to me its insignificant, a moot point, if I need the heat with the unit on high then that's what I need. Newer eps stoves in general do not radiate heat like the old non-epa stoves. There might be some eps stoves that do it better than other eps stoves but none of them hold a candle to the non-epa stoves and there's a reason for that also.

 

[bholler]

However, the non-cat is also not consistently hot over the entire top. My NC30 has a very obvious hot spot in the center of the step top. Anywhere else on the top is cooler. The heat engine on the non-cat is on the firebox side of the baffle, where the actual secondary combustion takes place. Glowing stainless steel tubes are really hot.

yes I know that but it is more consistent than a cat is all I was saying.

 

[bholler]

I don't necessarily agree they are "meant to run low" but you might not be the only one that feels that way. I would agree they are more efficient at reducing emissions at lower settings but the stove is meant to operate at any range allowed by the air control (predetermined by the manufacture). In order to make more heat you need to burn more fuel, in order to burn more fuel you need to move air/exhaust and that exiting flue gas is going to take heat with it (i.e. less efficient). Its to be expected that the flue gas temperature is going to go up if you are burning the stove hotter, that applies to any wood burning appliance unless it has a condensing flue gas chamber which extracts the heat from the flue. The heat lost in up the flue on the King or presumably any other epa stove pails in comparison to the non-epa stoves so to me its insignificant, a moot point, if I need the heat with the unit on high then that's what I need. Newer eps stoves in general do not radiate heat like the old non-epa stoves. There might be some eps stoves that do it better than other eps stoves but none of them hold a candle to the non-epa stoves and there's a reason for that also.

Maybe meant to run low is the wrong wording. I thing running on low is where they really shine would be a better way to put it.

 

[Highbeam]

I wouldn't bet on it. I can shoot the FLIR through the edges of the outer shields and see a 6-700F surface temp above the fire bricks.



I don't necessarily agree they are "meant to run low" but you might not be the only one that feels that way. I would agree they are more efficient at reducing emissions at lower settings but the stove is meant to operate at any range allowed by the air control (predetermined by the manufacture). In order to make more heat you need to burn more fuel, in order to burn more fuel you need to move air/exhaust and that exiting flue gas is going to take heat with it (i.e. less efficient). Its to be expected that the flue gas temperature is going to go up if you are burning the stove hotter, that applies to any wood burning appliance unless it has a condensing flue gas chamber which extracts the heat from the flue. The heat lost in up the flue on the King or presumably any other epa stove pails in comparison to the non-epa stoves so to me its insignificant, a moot point, if I need the heat with the unit on high then that's what I need. Newer eps stoves in general do not radiate heat like the old non-epa stoves. There might be some eps stoves that do it better than other eps stoves but none of them hold a candle to the non-epa stoves and there's a reason for that also.

You got it Marshy. The way that you keep flue temps down, and efficiency up, during high output is to increase the heat exchanger area of the exhaust or somehow steal that heat before it can escape up the chimney. Very hard to do in a woodstove but wood furnaces draw the smoke from the fire just like a stove and then run the exhaust back and forth through a heat exchanger surrounded by fast blowing room air to cool the flue gasses as much as possible.

I admit that my 10' single wall stack above the NC30 is helpful for stealing back a little efficiency that would otherwise escape up the flue.

 

[webby3650]

I wouldn't bet on it. I can shoot the FLIR through the edges of the outer shields and see a 6-700F surface temp above the fire bricks where the internal steel shields are.



I don't necessarily agree they are "meant to run low" but you might not be the only one that feels that way. I would agree they are more efficient at reducing emissions at lower settings but the stove is meant to operate at any range allowed by the air control (predetermined by the manufacture). In order to make more heat you need to burn more fuel, in order to burn more fuel you need to move air/exhaust and that exiting flue gas is going to take heat with it (i.e. less efficient). Its to be expected that the flue gas temperature is going to go up if you are burning the stove hotter, that applies to any wood burning appliance unless it has a condensing flue gas chamber which extracts the heat from the flue. The heat lost in up the flue on the King or presumably any other epa stove pails in comparison to the non-epa stoves so to me its insignificant, a moot point, if I need the heat with the unit on high then that's what I need. Newer eps stoves in general do not radiate heat like the old non-epa stoves. There might be some eps stoves that do it better than other eps stoves but none of them hold a candle to the non-epa stoves and there's a reason for that also.

Yes they can run on high without immediate noticeable damage and perform well. As with anything though, I'd expect to have a shorter lifespan. Like driving your Honda Accord with the peddle to metal everywhere you go, it'll do it just fine but you wouldn't be shocked if it didn't last as long as it could have. It'll go 100mph, but obviously isn't designed to be redlined it's whole life.

 

[Niko]

Dont get so technical just yet, I made this thread for people to show what their stove temps are, dont really care left, right, top, bottom, cat or non cat. Pre epa or whatever.

I have been reading thread after thread of people having educated conversation of their stoves and helping other making educated decision on purchasing one, but pretty much everytime I stated I love my stove i was meet with, well your stove only burns long and low but cant burn as hot as mine.

So like i said without getting all techinical yet show me your stove temp, i dont care if its a hot spot or what, i dont care what instrument you use(as long as the instrument is accurate) I just want to see who has the Highest number!

I gueess will have a technical more educated decision after we get some numbers.

 

[Niko]

Yes they can run on high without immediate noticeable damage and perform well. As with anything though, I'd expect to have a shorter lifespan. Like driving your Honda Accord with the peddle to metal everywhere you go, it'll do it just fine but you wouldn't be shocked if it didn't last as long as it could have. It'll go 100mph, but obviously isn't designed to be redlined it's whole life.

I have confidense that the stoves will be just fine as long as you keep up the miantenance on them. I think gasket, sealent any bolts would need to be changed like maybe every 1-2 months? As on a way higher temp the air leaks probably play a hug role in the metal.

I have freinds that beat the crap put of their cars(like go to race tracks) but they keep up on their maintenance well before the expected break point or change interval. But the "car itself is fine" and will do what its suppose to do.

 

[webby3650]

I have confidense that the stoves will be just fine as long as you keep up the miantenance on them. I think gasket, sealent any bolts would need to be changed like maybe every 1-2 months? As on a way higher temp the air leaks probably play a hug role in the metal.

I have freinds that beat the crap put of their cars(like go to race tracks) but they keep up on their maintenance well before the expected break point or change interval. But the "car itself is fine" and will do what its suppose to do.

Well then, burn away! Like I've said before, I just can't imagine running one on high all the time intentionally, one is completely missing out on the benefit of owning a BK. To each his own

 

[bholler]

So like i said without getting all techinical yet show me your stove temp, i dont care if its a hot spot or what, i dont care what instrument you use(as long as the instrument is accurate) I just want to see who has the Highest number!

But that number means absolutely nothing by it self so what is the point? If you have one hot spot at 800 and my whole stove is 600 my stove will be putting out more heat. Those are just random numbers I am throwing out not accurate at all btw.

I have confidense that the stoves will be just fine as long as you keep up the miantenance on them. I think gasket, sealent any bolts would need to be changed like maybe every 1-2 months? As on a way higher temp the air leaks probably play a hug role in the metal.

I have freinds that beat the crap put of their cars(like go to race tracks) but they keep up on their maintenance well before the expected break point or change interval. But the "car itself is fine" and will do what its suppose to do.

No not true at all if you consistently over fire your stove it will destroy it no matter how much maintenance you do. And if you are constantly at the top edge of the limit you will shorten the life of that stove.

The same goes for cars yes you can run them hard and they can be fine but you are shortening the life of them regardless of maintenance.

 

[lsucet]

I gueess will have a technical more educated decision after we get some numbers.

I think those number should not be taking into consideration neither cause it is not proving anything. i post some picture of mine that for some reason i catch this past weekend and not with the intention of: (oh yeah i will show them this.) that was a rare case that i was running it like that because i am ok after charring the wood some and dial it down to my sweet spot. still spike to a little over 600 and back down under 600 for hrs and settle around 500 for another x amount of hrs. including when temp dropped at 9 df outside weeks ago was enough heat for me and the back of the house just drop to 64 df with stove room at 71 and other areas 68-69 df stove top then about 450 df 9 hrs later. I turn on the pellet stove in the back and after breakfast shut it down and didn't touch anything on the BK. still getting almost 20 hrs out of a load. the lowest time since i got it. You see, for my needs it is ok and i don't do anything going crazy and dial it higher for the point of show. the way it runs it is doing the job for me regardless if the top or side temperatures are higher or lower than others. at the end of the day that is what counts..

 

[Marshy]

I have confidense that the stoves will be just fine as long as you keep up the miantenance on them. I think gasket, sealent any bolts would need to be changed like maybe every 1-2 months? As on a way higher temp the air leaks probably play a hug role in the metal...

I think the maintenance and frequency in the manual is adequate for any type of operation the owner chooses as long as the controls are not tampered with and it doesn't develop a gasket leak (or if it does it's addressed timely).

Well then, burn away! Like I've said before, I just can't imagine running one on high all the time intentionally, one is completely missing out on the benefit of owning a BK. To each his own

Debatable.

 

[Highbeam]

Well then, burn away! Like I've said before, I just can't imagine running one on high all the time intentionally, one is completely missing out on the benefit of owning a BK. To each his own

They are missing out on one of the biggest benefits for sure, not all of them though. The operator has the benefit of being able to run it low and slow if conditions warrant.

 

[firefighterjake]

My dad can beat up your dad . . .

Chevy is better than Ford . . .

Cats are better than dogs (or non-cat stoves) . . .

I feel like we've had very similar discussions before here . . . since at least 2008.

 

[Highbeam]

My dad can beat up your dad . . .

Chevy is better than Ford . . .

Cats are better than dogs (or non-cat stoves) . . .

I feel like we've had very similar discussions before here . . . since at least 2008.

And we always will. If you don't love it then you're in the wrong place! We haven't had a good Woodstock vs. BK debate in a while!

 

[Squisher]

Nah I thought it was that new guy going on and on about his PE's that was causing all the trouble.

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

This is an awesome, and enjoyable, thread to read! thanks ya'll....

 

[Niko]

Well then, burn away! Like I've said before, I just can't imagine running one on high all the time intentionally, one is completely missing out on the benefit of owning a BK. To each his own

Lol i dont do it im a med to low burner, im just saying it shoulD without hold the heat as it meant to burn wood.

 

[Niko]

But that number means absolutely nothing by it self so what is the point? If you have one hot spot at 800 and my whole stove is 600 my stove will be putting out more heat. Those are just random numbers I am throwing out not accurate at all btw.



No not true at all if you consistently over fire your stove it will destroy it no matter how much maintenance you do. And if you are constantly at the top edge of the limit you will shorten the life of that stove.

The same goes for cars yes you can run them hard and they can be fine but you are shortening the life of them regardless of maintenance.

If im not mistaking you and squisher in the other thread said that bk dont produce real heat or cant get hot enough. So i created this thread. So i made what i would think could give you a effort and others to show what your stoves can produce. Im not here to say mine is better I just wanna see the temps.

If your gonna break it down now into every litttle detail then my thread is gonna get ruined .

Id like to know once again what people stove temps are, do mutliple reading then instead of one spot i dont care. LIKE NIKE SAID

JUST DO IT

 

[lsucet]

Look what is worth to me. Different days same settings at the stove tstat, my sweet spot. the wall thermostat is cause i am controlling the outlet where the stove fans are connected Not that much different with almost the same scenario and different outside temp

 

[bholler]

If im not mistaking you and squisher in the other thread said that bk dont produce real heat or cant get hot enough.

No neither of us ever said anything like that at all. I cant speak for squisher but I can tell you that what I said was that my house has a high heat load because of that I would not be running a bk low and slow. Because of that I dont see any reason to spend the extra money one a stove that excells at something I don't need it to do.

Id like to know once again what people stove temps are, do multiple reading then instead of one spot i dont care.

And many of us have given you the temps but most of us also told you they really mean very little about the heat output of the stove. I am sorry but if all you wanted was a thread where people just gave the temps of their stoves and had no discussion that would be a pretty boring thread.

I also would like to know what you want to find out by getting those numbers. What information will it give you?

 

[Squisher]

Sure I questioned the output capacity on the BK's I was wanting to get to the root of what was up with all the wonky ratings and find out from users what kind of real world output they were seeing. I get to see a lot of different stoves being a sweep but I never see any of them running besides my own and few people I know who have stoves too.