Help with gw 100 boiler
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Thanks for the pics, looks like your chimney height is not a problem . You might be choking down the boiler with the reducer at the base of the GW.Also what looks like a home made transition into the draft inducer might cause turbulence in exeunt stream , silicon seal around the surface that connects the draft inducer to the flue pipe,if it is missing a gasket. Last thing I would check , but most important make sure the base of the boiler by the flue exhaust pipe is clean inside the boiler , I found soot can deposit there very quickly even with clean burns. Anthony
how much insulated pipe is needed or recommended for these boilers? how many feet? just wondering if it was to sit in a shed outside. if anything just give me a guess.
these boilers blow my mind. you litteraly have to be a rocket scientist too operate one. I have not slept a good night since I installedmine 3 months ago. It has never worked right. At least when I had my old Aquatherm allyou had to do was keep it full of wood. It could burn 18 hoursor longer if you filled it full. Thought i might get some effiency out of my Adobe only headaches and still burns as much wood. Put up new chimney still doesnot work now have to tear it apartto see if its clean in back. wouldn't be a bad job if they had made a decent access panel that was removable. I can just imagine the shape of that tin by the time you get it off. Should have listened to my brotherinlaw. He has a Garn no problems, no chimney, no additional water storage, burn a fire once or twice a day and he can sleep being sure it will be ok in the morning. I'll bet he has less in his than I will have in mine by the time I add everything to make this piece of---- work. If you think I'm frustrated I am. Thanks for listening.
rsnider said:
Fred Seton has a very simple set up ,no less than 18' of double wall insulated flue pipe starting at base of the boiler directly into the flue pipe , no reducers , just a clean out tee for servicing. Very safe and it keeps the flue temperate up for proper draft and efficiency throughout out the boiler cycles . Anthony
muleman51 said:
Bummer
Maybe start a new thread , there is defiantly allot to owning an operating a wood fired boiler , way to many variables . We can help . Very cool you my be the first Adobe boiler owner to speak up at the Boiler room . Anthony
If you have to put up 18' of insulated pipe, add water storage, cross your fingers, have the wind at your back. something is wrong with this picture . This industry needs to look at itself and come up with something that works or at least be very honest and tell a person exactly what all of the variables are and what they will cost up front or the systems simply will not work
! Instead they sell you a boiler say good luck I never want to hear from you again and you are left to spend thousands to try try to make a bigger mess out of what you already have. there is another thread started under Adobe problems owner unite , started yesterday.
! Instead they sell you a boiler say good luck I never want to hear from you again and you are left to spend thousands to try try to make a bigger mess out of what you already have. there is another thread started under Adobe problems owner unite , started yesterday.I am confused . . . I thought you said you had a draft-inducing fan installed? But I don't see one . . .
If you get a negative draft between the GW outlet and the fan with the damper open and the fan running, something is incorrect.
My WAG would be that neither height of chimney nor surrounding trees is the problem.
Once you get the draft in the realm where it should be:
Get the GW up to 200* (my observation so far is that it runs best with the aquastat set at 190*), load it with quality rounds (the 1/2 way up the door opening thing in the manual is a good benchmark), then close the door. You may find - especially if the heat demand is high at that time - that the GW cools down below 180* after the damper opens the first time after loading. DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR TO SEE WHAT IS WRONG. Let the new load of wood heat up. The GW will then come back up to 200* and the damper will close. At this point observe the stack. You will have some wispy white steam/smoke.The amount will depend on your wood's MC and outside air temp and humidity.
Now observe what happens when the temp drops to 180*. When the damper opens you should get a puff of white steam/smoke, very light blue smoke for 20-30 seconds, then VSF(visibly smoke free) If you still get smoke with hot wood and the damper open and proper draft, either:
1)Your wood is wetter than you realize, or
2)the fire is starved for air.
Put another way . . . when the unit was down to 105*, was there fuel and coals near the air inlets?
Jimbo
If you get a negative draft between the GW outlet and the fan with the damper open and the fan running, something is incorrect.
My WAG would be that neither height of chimney nor surrounding trees is the problem.
Once you get the draft in the realm where it should be:
Get the GW up to 200* (my observation so far is that it runs best with the aquastat set at 190*), load it with quality rounds (the 1/2 way up the door opening thing in the manual is a good benchmark), then close the door. You may find - especially if the heat demand is high at that time - that the GW cools down below 180* after the damper opens the first time after loading. DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR TO SEE WHAT IS WRONG. Let the new load of wood heat up. The GW will then come back up to 200* and the damper will close. At this point observe the stack. You will have some wispy white steam/smoke.The amount will depend on your wood's MC and outside air temp and humidity.
Now observe what happens when the temp drops to 180*. When the damper opens you should get a puff of white steam/smoke, very light blue smoke for 20-30 seconds, then VSF(visibly smoke free) If you still get smoke with hot wood and the damper open and proper draft, either:
1)Your wood is wetter than you realize, or
2)the fire is starved for air.
ISeeDeadBTUs said:
Put another way . . . when the unit was down to 105*, was there fuel and coals near the air inlets?
Jimbo
muleman51 said:If you have to put up 18' of insulated pipe, add water storage, cross your fingers, have the wind at your back. something is wrong with this picture . This industry needs to look at itself and come up with something that works or at least be very honest and tell a person exactly what all of the variables are and what they will cost up front or the systems simply will not work
I agree be up front about the entire picture !! Wayne Bryant grilled me about my setup , knowledge and dump zone before he would sell me the medium size Seton boiler .
Anthony i took my chimney apart today to find approximately 3" of soot took about 10 min to clean out.
also the connection you saw is not homemade i have metal bestos double wall pipe with a mb connection to the single wall pipe.
checked all my joints today all were fine. thanks doc .
also the connection you saw is not homemade i have metal bestos double wall pipe with a mb connection to the single wall pipe.
checked all my joints today all were fine. thanks doc .
docgogo said:
That's great ! Flue pipes on wood burning appliances make me very nervous . Anthony
back of the greenwood about 2-3 " deep covered the entire back about 24-30" wide and 10-12 in deep took off the collar cleaned it out with a vacuum cleaner.
thanks for the tip.oh yeah the draft inducer is on the single wall pipe almost at the top i took the pic from the side. the draft inducer is the half moon shaped thing in the first pic about the top of the pic.
thanks for the tip.oh yeah the draft inducer is on the single wall pipe almost at the top i took the pic from the side. the draft inducer is the half moon shaped thing in the first pic about the top of the pic.
I doubt the soot was causing the problem. My pipe is 8" all the way, but I've never actually measured my draught. But after a year, I don't hve much trouble . . .well cept when I do something stupid ;-)
So, you got cleaned up! Have you put it back together and fired her up yet?
Jimbo
So, you got cleaned up! Have you put it back together and fired her up yet?
Jimbo
yes i have but i'm having mixed results
aquastat 190 with 15 deg dif.
up to temp at 6:00 eve.
cycles on and off correctly
11:00 pm two large pieces of white oak (supposed to be seasoned 5 months have not measured mc) temps at 180 deg.
4:00 am temps at 150 deg. wood red hot but temps down. placed small split wood temp gets up to 180 within 1 hr.
6:45 am temp at 180 deg. filled with large pieces of white oak
home at 4:15 temps at 85 deg.almost know wood left burning. built fire temps up to 200 deg in two hrs.
manometer arrived today dwyer ll 25 model directions are very sketchy at best trying to figure out how to hook up correctly
aquastat 190 with 15 deg dif.
up to temp at 6:00 eve.
cycles on and off correctly
11:00 pm two large pieces of white oak (supposed to be seasoned 5 months have not measured mc) temps at 180 deg.
4:00 am temps at 150 deg. wood red hot but temps down. placed small split wood temp gets up to 180 within 1 hr.
6:45 am temp at 180 deg. filled with large pieces of white oak
home at 4:15 temps at 85 deg.almost know wood left burning. built fire temps up to 200 deg in two hrs.
manometer arrived today dwyer ll 25 model directions are very sketchy at best trying to figure out how to hook up correctly
White Oak holds on to it's water. It takes two years to get a good burn on. Next season you will see what your GW will do.
You quickly learn all about what really dry means when you start using a gasifier. I have wood that's "dry" and wood that's "really dry." It's an important distinction.
I would think that if you name a boiler GREENWOOD and you advertise that the boiler can burn GREENWOOD, that burnung GREENWOOD should not totaly ruin the performance of the boiler.
I have never had trouble burning 'wet' red nor white oak. You must make sure the fire is up to temp, put down a layer of seasoned wood on the coals, then alternate 'dry' and 'wet' wood. All the oak I burn has been cut down about 7 years, but it has laid on the forest floor the whole time. I have never measured the MC, but I know it's less than ideal.
docgogo said:
Clarification please.
1) after the white oak and you closed the door, how high was the wood in the box? What was the overnight temp, say at 4AM when you checked it?
2)When you opend the door at 4AM, what was in the box? Whole pieces of wood? or just coals?
That's a 9 1/2 hour burn. I shoot for sustainable fires of 8 hours with effective heating capacity. What was the outside temp that day? How full are you filling the box? Am I missing something, because I though you were saying the wood was just sitting in the box not producing heat. Has that changed now to the point where the wood burns fine, just not as long as you had hoped?docgogo said:
Jimbo
Yeah, somethin" still not right with this. I mostly burn dry wood, but the past two days I have been chucking the wettest, sitting in a puddle, beech into my gw 100 just to see what would happen. Well I'm burning more wood but the fire is roaring and the water temp is 190º The inside temp is 72-74º. More smoke but not as much as I expected. If GW could figure out the cracking refractory I believe it would be the best boiler out there. The time savings in wood prep is huge.
thanks to all who have helped me. to my dismay
manometer reading when above 140 deg. .8-.10
with draft inducer on .17-.20
so i guess every one was pretty much right the white oak that i thought was dry is obviously wet.
now i guess the plan should be to make sure the wood i get is dry
probably need a mc meter does anyone have ideas where to get one thats not too expensive and where to get it?
also should probably get as much wood ahead as i can and let is season
what would be the desired time to season
white oak
hickory and so on?
http://www.nepadigital.com/bb/download/file.php?id=1633
found this was a lot of help with installation
thanks to anthony to helping me with manometer i purchased a mark ll 25 from dwyer instruments 33.00 plus shipping
(broken link removed to http://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/PDFFILES/cat/pressure/25_cat.pdf)
thanks again yes i feel really stupid
thanks to anthony i didn't cut any trees, or do anything else
don't need the draft inducer but it helps when starting a fire.
manometer reading when above 140 deg. .8-.10
with draft inducer on .17-.20
so i guess every one was pretty much right the white oak that i thought was dry is obviously wet.
now i guess the plan should be to make sure the wood i get is dry
probably need a mc meter does anyone have ideas where to get one thats not too expensive and where to get it?
also should probably get as much wood ahead as i can and let is season
what would be the desired time to season
white oak
hickory and so on?
http://www.nepadigital.com/bb/download/file.php?id=1633
found this was a lot of help with installation
thanks to anthony to helping me with manometer i purchased a mark ll 25 from dwyer instruments 33.00 plus shipping
(broken link removed to http://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/PDFFILES/cat/pressure/25_cat.pdf)
thanks again yes i feel really stupid
thanks to anthony i didn't cut any trees, or do anything else
don't need the draft inducer but it helps when starting a fire.
There are many folks that have gotten low cost moisture meters from either Harbor Freight, or E-Bay. Comments I've heard are that they work reasonably well, but are a little fragile - some folks have suggested pre-drilling pilot holes for the pins to avoid straining them. Others have said that the 2 pin models are arguably less accurate than the 4 pin models, but both are good enough for firewood, and the two pin units are easier to use on cordwood since you don't need to worry about getting a surface flat enough to get all 4 pins in contact at the same time.
Also remember the correct procedure for measuring - you need to re-split the peice you are trying to measure and get the moisture content off the newly exposed surface, DON'T just take a reading off the outside of the split, as the outside will be much lower than the center, giving you a false reading.
Standard answer for seasoning time is AT LEAST one year for most oaks and your better hardwoods, with the seasoning clock starting when you cut the wood to your preferred burn length and get it stacked off the ground. (NOT when you drop the tree) Longer is better as long as the wood is reasonably protected and stacked off the ground, with 2-4 year wood probably being about the best. You can shave some time off this by stacking techniques, although you will get "religious arguements" about the best technique. During the dry season, loose single row stacks spaced 4-8 feet apart, exposed to the sun, and crossways to the prevailing winds seems to be the best. In worse weather, you should either top cover the stacks or move the wood into a wood shed. (I have an open sided wood shed that I stack the wood into as I process it, about 5 tightly stacked rows, with tarps over the open sides that I leave rolled up in the summer and lower in the winter time - not perfect but I don't like moving the wood multiple times. If you can't season that far ahead, 6-9 months will get you most of the way there.
Cut and split from the wood guy should be considered to be unseasoned, no matter what is claimed, unless you have personally verified the moisture content with your own meter.
What I figure is to try to cut and split at least 30-50% more wood each season than you plan to use, then burn the oldest wood first. This will slowly increase the age of your piles over a couple seasons until you are starting to get 3-4 years ahead on the supply, at which point you can balance off by cutting about the same each year as you use.
Gooserider
Also remember the correct procedure for measuring - you need to re-split the peice you are trying to measure and get the moisture content off the newly exposed surface, DON'T just take a reading off the outside of the split, as the outside will be much lower than the center, giving you a false reading.
Standard answer for seasoning time is AT LEAST one year for most oaks and your better hardwoods, with the seasoning clock starting when you cut the wood to your preferred burn length and get it stacked off the ground. (NOT when you drop the tree) Longer is better as long as the wood is reasonably protected and stacked off the ground, with 2-4 year wood probably being about the best. You can shave some time off this by stacking techniques, although you will get "religious arguements" about the best technique. During the dry season, loose single row stacks spaced 4-8 feet apart, exposed to the sun, and crossways to the prevailing winds seems to be the best. In worse weather, you should either top cover the stacks or move the wood into a wood shed. (I have an open sided wood shed that I stack the wood into as I process it, about 5 tightly stacked rows, with tarps over the open sides that I leave rolled up in the summer and lower in the winter time - not perfect but I don't like moving the wood multiple times. If you can't season that far ahead, 6-9 months will get you most of the way there.
Cut and split from the wood guy should be considered to be unseasoned, no matter what is claimed, unless you have personally verified the moisture content with your own meter.
What I figure is to try to cut and split at least 30-50% more wood each season than you plan to use, then burn the oldest wood first. This will slowly increase the age of your piles over a couple seasons until you are starting to get 3-4 years ahead on the supply, at which point you can balance off by cutting about the same each year as you use.
Gooserider
One other trick my father always preaches to me , mix your wood some dry some whatever, some hard some soft , if possible , in the ideal world . That's not my world . Anthony
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