Help with gw 100 boiler

[sparke]

Dont get discouraged. These types of boilers are awesome once you get the bugs out. You never answered the question - where did you measure draft - above or below inducer? I just installed a draft inducer. My boiler worked great before even at .04 draft. Now I set it at .06 with the inducer and the boiler performs even better! Try running the inducer at full speed. If you dont have a draft gauge - watch the pipe temps (supposed to be internal pipe temp readings - not a magnet thermometer). Stack temps should be 250* - 350* if the unit is not in idle mode... When I had a low draft my pipe readings where around 200* Eliminate one problem at a time. It does sound like a draft issue at this point... Keep us posted.

 

[antknee2]

Sounds like your on the right track , the most important thing with any natural draft boiler is have a dedicated manometer and stack thermometer permanently in place . With the instruments in place it takes some of the mystery out of the equation . Do not give up on your Greenwood they are pure heat producing machines if you get the draft to pull through at he right speed and if you keep the heat exchanger tubes clean even the inaccessible vertical tubes in back of the boiler . Ever since I cleaned the vertical tubes in the back their is a huge reduction of wood used and very fast recharge of the three 120 gallon storage tanks , wish I had more storage . I also found way better results with primary aquastat set at 190 f and a 25 degree deferential. Keep us updated . Anthony

(broken link removed to http://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/pressure/ManometerIntroduction.cfm)

(broken link removed to http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Woodstove-Corner/Woodstove-Thermometer/Flue-Gas-Thermometer)

 

[henfruit]

hey sparke how do you set it at 06 with inducer? i put mine on low and still pull.10. anthony how did you get into the side of the boiler to expose the pipes? i cleaned my to pipes with scaper i made,still tough to get the top row that well. i also took off the back bottom where the smoke pipe is, that was quite full of soot and creosote. i was wondering if those creosote removing logs would help?

 

[docgogo]

i'm not sure if you saw my post where my boiler is located close to some trees etc. do i need a cap? i bought one but not sure if that could be part of the problem .

 

[sparke]

Henfruit, I replaced the stock rheostat with a fan rheostat that spins the fan at lower RPM's. With the stock rheostat I had more then .10 at its lowest setting. It draws less amperage now too.

Docgogo, DO NOT USE A CAP. You should find that in your owners manual... For anyone that needs a draft inducer, check ebay. I got mine for $66.00 brand new. They usually cost over $200.

 

[antknee2]

Good point about the cap , Fred Seton said if you feel you need a cap use a open design like a Shanty cop ,very low cost .

 

[antknee2]

anthony how did you get into the side of the boiler to expose the pipes? i cleaned my to pipes with scaper i made,still tough to get the top row that well. i also took off the back bottom where the smoke pipe is, that was quite full of soot and creosote. i was wondering if those creosote removing logs would help?

My boiler was purchased used last spring no guarantee ,as is .So for me to make a slight modification an create a easy open panel on the side was just a decisions I made an do not regret. I do not recommend any body modify any part of your boiler . Hope this helps. Anthony

 

[henfruit]

thanks sparke and anthony, i will have to look into to that type of reostat. do you keep it running all the time? i was thinking of wiring my di to the damper so that it came on when the damper opened. i noticed that your draft inducer is clost to your boiler.does it get to hot for it there? how did you seal it in place? thanks pat

 

[rsnider]

question? i was considering a greenfire recently but just wondering would this type of boiler get overly (dirty) since my outside temps dont get near what most of you see. my ave. temp in winter months 15 to 30 degree sometimes down to zero a few days at most. like the other day it was 50 but very rare does that happen. just wondering since most of you that have this seton design seem to live in a colder winter climate than me. would this design idle to much in a warmer temps. thanks for any replies.

 

[antknee2]

question? i was considering a greenfire recently but just wondering would this type of boiler get overly (dirty) since my outside temps dont get near what most of you see. my ave. temp in winter months 15 to 30 degree sometimes down to zero a few days at most. like the other day it was 50 but very rare does that happen. just wondering since most of you that have this seton design seem to live in a colder winter climate than me. would this design idle to much in a warmer temps. thanks for any replies.

If I a was to start over with a new system I would make sure their was a well designed thermal storage system in place right from the start . I like the STSS system for the boiler size I have and house size Sven said 600 gallons would work great . One full out fire per day , clean boiler , clean chimney , you use the stored energy as you need it , no over heating .

(broken link removed to http://www.stsscoinc.com/Products_SolarAndDHW.ASPX)

 

[sparke]

In a warmer climate you definately need water storage. I can't fill my box up because it makes too much heat if it is above 20 -25* outside. I think other gassers would work better in warmer climates. Thats just my 2 cents...

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Doc . . . you sound like me last year . . .constantly trying to figure out what was wrong. But seriously, the measurments will tell you. My advice would be to not buy anything more (Caps, tree removal, etc) and don't expect GreenWood to bail you out. They suck, to be Frank. And I'm not Frank. The good news is, the unit itself doesn't suck , just the company does.

So, a few clarification questions . . .

1) Did I hear you say that with the fan off, the damper open, and the unit up to temp that you got a negative draft?

2)How often are you removing ash?

3)When you load the GW, how far below the bottom of the air inlets is the coal bed?

4) have you measured the MC on the wood that seems to be smoldering yet?

5)Did I hear you say that you got the unit up to temp (aquastat set at 190, damper closed) with it loaded, then hours later the wood was just sitting there smoldering? If I understood you correctly, then what was the water temp when the wood was smoldering? and was the damper open or closed?

Jimbo

 

[docgogo]

1) draft measured approx 12" up the vertical stack fan on damper open ( i have my draft inducer wired in with my damper) -2 draft, with the draft inducer off had zero draft. yeah the -2 dosen't make any sense. unit was at approx 140 degree. (when i measure my draft does gw need to be up to temp?? )
2) I remove ashes about once a week or when they get above the air inlets. (before draft inducer i never had ashes all i had were hot coals. now i do have ashes. )
3 hmm. not sure usually 3-4 " sometimes a little higher ( why is that important?)
4) no i have not measured the mc content.
5) unit was up to 180-185 for 4-5 hrs. at that temp. not sure about the water temps but they would go from 180-185 to 105 or so. damper would be open

since my last post i have removed my cap
i now have 12' of dbl. wall with 4.5' of single wall
last night was the first night that i can remember that all of my wood was almost burned up.
i will know more in the am when i check the stove.
how long do most people get for burn times? i realize i have a heavy load. h2o heater, furnace and hot tub but it is hard for me to get any more than 8 hrs. i need a little more time than that. thanks . doc.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

1) fan on damper open ( i have my draft inducer wired in with my damper) -2 draft, with the draft inducer off had zero draft.

Hey, I'm no expert like Joe or maybe a couple others here, but . . . I think you need to figure out if your above quoted readings are correct. To my simple mind, if you have less draft with the fan running, then the fan is moving the air backwards. If that's true, yer gonna need to fix that.

2) I remove ashes about once a week or when they get above the air inlets.

Spoken like a GW newbie . . . More than once a month is too often. Sometimes I still have to remind myself . . .
The BEST way to run the GW is get it hot, load it for an 8 hour burn, close the door and leave it. Do NOT add wood on top of wood from a previous load. Near the end of a burn cycle you will need to push coals from the front of the box to the rear. Be careful to not cover the air tubes with the coals. (This will literaly cause blue flames to shoot out the door when you open it, introducing oxygen quickly to an air starved fire!) New wood should not be added until the coals are well below the bottom of the air tubes. Careful raking of the coal bed near the end of the burn cycle will cause very little ash to remain.

Question here . . . when you do remove ash, is it mostly clumps? or loose ash? And are you getting all the way down to the combustion chamber underneath the air tubes?

5) unit was up to 180-185 for 4-5 hrs. at that temp. not sure about the water temps but they would go from 180-185 to 105 or so. damper would be open .

A little clarification here please . . .
IF you're saying you got the GW up to temp with a load, then for 4-5 hours it cycled on and off normally, then the damper opened and the water dropped to 105 . . .Then I'd say the GW is working the way it is supposed to, we just need to figure out why it ran out of fuel in 5 hours.

ON THE OTHER HAND IF you're saying you got the GW up to temp, the damper closed, then did not open until 5 hours later, whereupon it could not get up to temp . . .Let us know if this is the case, 'cause we need to ask more questions (first of which will be, Have you figured out the draft situation yet?) before I can say what is probably happening.

i realize i have a heavy load. h2o heater, furnace and hot tub

My apoligy if I missed it somewhere, but, what is your heat demand?
Size of heated area?
Heat type?
Heat transfer method?

Jimbo

 

[rsnider]

i was looking at the seton site www.rohor.com and noticed that it says now with vessel access panel along with steel reinforced refractory. does the seton boiler now have a panel to get to the rear of the hx tubes on the back or side like anthony did. and what does the steel reinforced refractory mean?

 

[sparky1961]

The steel reinforced refactory is a angle iron frame that the refactory is casted onto it makes a frame around the rear wall and front wall.

 

[antknee2]

i was looking at the seton site www.rohor.com and noticed that it says now with vessel access panel along with steel reinforced refractory. does the seton boiler now have a panel to get to the rear of the hx tubes on the back or side like anthony did. and what does the steel reinforced refractory mean?

The Seton boiler dose not really have any easy way that I can see to clean the vertical section of the heat exchanger , except remove the entire right or left side panel , and cut a small section of the high density insulation like the pics . The next step was to apply a small amount of oring grease on the edges of the panel , next use a liberal amount of high temperate silicon rubber on the boiler frame . Reassemble entire panel { don't forget the insulation} let setup over night . Your boiler will blow you mind when you get your efficiency back and it will have a permanent rubber seal that can reused over and over for future cleaning . Anthony
Sorry docgogo for hijacking your thread .

 

[docgogo]

anthony d. said he had a dedicated manometer in his stack? what kind do you have where can i get one. i am questioning my heat and air man he has a field piece unit that connects to the top of his meter not sure if it will work for wood. thanks in advance .

 

[antknee2]

anthony d. said he had a dedicated manometer in his stack? what kind do you have where can i get one. i am questioning my heat and air man he has a field piece unit that connects to the top of his meter not sure if it will work for wood. thanks in advance .

I found this on Ebay great price
http://cgi.ebay.com/Manometer-Dwyer...ryZ66998QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[docgogo]

thanks for the link on the manometer don't want to sound dumb being from ky. all of the manometers i have looked at have plastic tubing with a brass coupling can you use that with wood fired boiler? seems like the chimney would be to hot. can you use the one anthony found on ebay as a dedicated manometer? thanks for all your help. has been a rough first six months. with very little help from gw or my seller. nice guy but doesn't know much.

 

[Gooserider]

thanks for the link on the manometer don't want to sound dumb being from ky. all of the manometers i have looked at have plastic tubing with a brass coupling can you use that with wood fired boiler? seems like the chimney would be to hot. can you use the one anthony found on ebay as a dedicated manometer? thanks for all your help. has been a rough first six months. with very little help from gw or my seller. nice guy but doesn't know much.

Don't know, but my assumption would be that as long as you can get the temperature down to a reasonable level, the tube and instrument should be no problem - I'd probably just use a foot or so of copper tube where I connected the manometer, should be no problem then.

I don't know of any reason you couldn't use that manometer as a dedicated instrument, other than the possible problem of whether or not the indicating oil might tend to evaporate.

Actually I'd be tempted to build my own - get some glass tube, or even clear fish tank air line, and fasten it to a board on an incline and put some calibration marks on it... A manometer is actually one of the simplest instruments there is to make.

Gooserider

 

[antknee2]

The gadge I use has a 8"" long section of brass tubing shoved into the plastic tubeing , no ploblem so far . Also could you send some pics of the flue pipe configuration in back of your GW . Anthony

 

[docgogo]

here are the pics
i have 5' of single wall with a draft inducer ad-1
15' of double wall pipe .
still having problems purchased a draft inducer from dwyerhttp://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/pressure/Model25-40Price.CFM

 

[sparke]

Is that romex wire next to the single wall flue?

 

[docgogo]

yeah its actually an extension cord but its about 24" from the flue . not usually there.