Help!? Design my install (heat dump, pumps, storage)

[maple1]

1. Obadiahs told me I will need to enclose the boiler with a framed and drywalled room/ closet to meet code for the simple fact of keeping combustibles away from the radiant heat of the boiler itself. ( in the plans )
I don't think it has anything to do with keeping radiant heat off combustibles. Maintaining specd clearance distances would do that. It is about eliminating the possibility of gas fumes meeting your fire. Some places, with having a boiler under a garage roof, you would need to partition the boiler off completely with its own outside entrance, as mentioned. Other places, just making sure the combustion chamber door is high enough off the floor will do. Insurance requirements & codes vary from one insurance company or jurisdiction to others.

so do you think one pump will do the trick? for 5 zones including domestic hot water? I have seen some systems with a return pump etc..???

Well - one pump pumping at 10gpm with a 20° dT thru the emitters can move about 100,000 btu/hr. That's a lot of heat. It's also where a heat loss calc & some flow/head loss figuring on your piping/zones comes into play. I have one Alpha, with 4 baseboard zones & one DHW zone. I have it set on its lowest sped constant pressure setting. Heats with no problems. Not sure of the return pump you speak of - that might be a primary/secondary setup?

quick question.: which one do I want....

What you 'want' will depend on if you want to plug it into an outlet, or wire it to an aquastat. I have the middle one - if I wanted to plug it in, I would just wire a cord to it. Otherwise, it's the same pump.

 

[Bob Rohr]

Here is the free heat load ap. See if you can narrow down a room by room load, and most importantly the load for the entire home. Only with that info will you be able to select the correct pump. Probably one Alpha will do the job, but this ap makes the number crunching easy.

http://www.slantfin.com/index.php/professionals/heatloss

I like the corded pumps, with the Alpha you can leave it powered, and it "wakes up" when there is a load call, once it is set properly.

 

[sghickey]

hello again. I have been studying and researching and purchasing parts etc. for the last few weeks, I also found out that one of my buddies ( HVAC tech) also has a couple years of hydronic related experience and although he never installed a boiler, asked me to wait a few weeks before starting and he would help me with the install. I do have a couple more questions you fellas may be able to assist with...

1. What is the major difference between a dhw side arm, and plate exchange. in reference to efficiency and ease of install?
2. what are people using as a heat dump. Im looking for a inexpensive heat dump option. ( old baseboard, car radiator,)
3. Please confirm if I am thinking through this correctly...
after my outlet, expansion, but before or after my circ pump do I split off a short loop to a heat dump? If after my pump, should/could I just use one of the zones off my manifold ( 6 zones available, only need 4 for now)
4. The manifold I bought comes with 2 pieces. 1st piece.... water in ( 1inch) dispersed by 1/2" zone valves going out, I assumed the other piece ( nearly identical except trimmed in blue vs. red ) should be the return from the zones then back to the boiler. However............. both pieces have a directional arrow indicating the water flow goes in at the 1 " inlet and out the various 1/2" outlets. but if one of them is the return, shouldn't the indicating flow arrow show water coming in the 1/2" zone valves and out the 1" in other words. the opposite of the other in regards to direction of flow? one piece for distribution, and one for the return ( opposite flow direction)
Thanks in advance. Im so excited to get started.. We are tearing into it this week...

 

[maple1]

hello again. I have been studying and researching and purchasing parts etc. for the last few weeks, I also found out that one of my buddies ( HVAC tech) also has a couple years of hydronic related experience and although he never installed a boiler, asked me to wait a few weeks before starting and he would help me with the install. I do have a couple more questions you fellas may be able to assist with...

1. What is the major difference between a dhw side arm, and plate exchange. in reference to efficiency and ease of install?

Plate will make more heat, but needs an extra pump on the DHW side. And maybe an extra controller. So depends on your situation. A sidearm will make lots of hot water with a steady or near steady supply of hot boiler water through it. But might not when boiler water gets lower temp. Also needs to be oriented & plumbed just right, flat plate doesn't matter so much.

2. what are people using as a heat dump. Im looking for a inexpensive heat dump option. ( old baseboard, car radiator,)

Old baseboard will work. Or cast iron rads. Or you could plumb it into an existing zone if the situation is right for it.

3. Please confirm if I am thinking through this correctly...
after my outlet, expansion, but before or after my circ pump do I split off a short loop to a heat dump? If after my pump, should/could I just use one of the zones off my manifold ( 6 zones available, only need 4 for now)

Heat dump should go directly up, off a fitting on the top of the boiler. With a normally open zone valve between the boiler & rest of that zone that is controlled by an aquatstat, and also tied to your circ pump. So that when the aquastat sees an overheat temp (200?), it would break the power to the zone valve & open the zone valve, and start the pump. Or if the power goes out, the valve will open so water convects naturally. That power-out natural convection part is why it is important for the water to go straight up off the boiler.


4. The manifold I bought comes with 2 pieces. 1st piece.... water in ( 1inch) dispersed by 1/2" zone valves going out, I assumed the other piece ( nearly identical except trimmed in blue vs. red ) should be the return from the zones then back to the boiler. However............. both pieces have a directional arrow indicating the water flow goes in at the 1 " inlet and out the various 1/2" outlets. but if one of them is the return, shouldn't the indicating flow arrow show water coming in the 1/2" zone valves and out the 1" in other words. the opposite of the other in regards to direction of flow? one piece for distribution, and one for the return ( opposite flow direction)
Thanks in advance. Im so excited to get started.. We are tearing into it this week...
View attachment 173024

It looks to me like those manifolds might be for domestic water and not heating. But I'm not 100% on that.

 

[sghickey]

Hello all, im looking for a few answers to a few questions based on the above..
My main loop is 2in. the aux loop is 2in.
The sends ( 2 sends)to the house are 1-1/4 in.
the distance underground between the shop and the house is 90 feet
P3(pump) goes 90 ft to the house to a manifold that splits into 2 x 1in loops to air handlers ( 2 air handlers total)
P4 (pump) goes 90 feet to the house then hits a manifold that will split into as many as 6 x 1/2 lines for panel radiators and DHW sidearm.
P2 is in the shop and is a Shop heater/ heat dump

1. if there is a 1/2 horse pump ( p1) on the main loop do I need the 2 smaller pumps on S2 and S3? ( S1 is a 54gpm taco 2400/50)
2. if there is a variable speed taco (small pump P3 or P4) on a send to the house? do I need another one ( p7) on the other end of that 90 ft run to feed the 6 way manifold?

My father in law is thinking that a 1/2 horse pump can feed the main loop, aux loop, heat dump, and the 2 x 1-1/4 inch lines to the house ( 90 feet away to the 6way manifold and the 2way manifold directly, then have valve stats on the 6way to open and close the 1/2 inch lines as needed
and the 2 way manifold would split to 2 x 1in lines and then a pump on each 1 inch line to serve the air handlers ( one is on the 3rd floor and across the house and the other is only 10 feet away from the manifold.)

thanks for all input.

ps. A is boiler B is shop heater and MX is 4way mixing valve