Help a Newbie pick a stove!

[firefighterjake]

Well we went to a local dealer today. We saw the VC models, the BK models, and some Jotul stoves. The Blaze King Ashford was just incredibly impressive. The fit and finish, latching and even design were all fantastic. However even the Ashford 20 is at the top of our price range. The VC Encore is a beauty, but if I'm going to spend I feel like the Ashford is really brings the goods. The Jotul's were pretty impressive too, certainly a money saver and they felt and looked top notch. However over the course of our home ownership, would the savings due to efficiency really add up?

The wild card for me is still the Woodstock Ideal Steel. I still don't like the look of them all that much, though I kind of don't mind the simple black version.... However I do respect the stated performance and price!

It's a conundrum!

I love my Jotul . . . but would the efficiency be worth the extra cost? Honestly, probably not. For me, I was buying the Toyota/Honda-like reliability of these stoves and the simple beauty of these stoves.

Would the efficiency of the Blaze King or Woodstocks be worth it? Really depends on what you value. If you put a premium on super long burns and/or put a premium on using less wood than a secondary burner stove due to time or money (time to process the wood yourself or money to purchase the wood) I would say it might be.

For the record I shied away from the Vermont line due to the issues they were having at the time . . . things may be better now, but after looking at the Jotuls I thought they were comparable in their look to the Vermont castings.

Woodstocks . . . I've never been a huge fan of most of their stove line up as most of their soapstone stoves look more at home to me in an old Victorian home and their newer steel stoves look rather industrial. Nothing against them . . . everyone likes different things. I do however like the look and performance numbers of the Progress Hybrid . . . if I was ever to give up my beloved Jotul it would probably be for that stove.

Blaze Kings . . . love the numbers, but other than the Ashford I just cannot get past how ugly they look.

 

[Ashful]

Blaze Kings . . . love the numbers, but other than the Ashford I just cannot get past how ugly they look.

So... why not the Ashford?

 

[Cast Iron]

Looks are very nice, but.....only front load. No blue/black enamel ( only an ugly brown, IMO of course ), much more $$$ than other stoves.
No top load BKVP !

 

[Ashful]

Top load is a reason to avoid a stove, not a good reason to buy one. Trust me, I had three top load stoves.

The Ashford has a full-height door. There is no firebox volume to be had above the door opening. You just load north-south right thru the front door.

Side load would make zero sense, with a square firebox. That’s only useful for shallow stoves that must be loaded East-west.

I ordered my Ashfords in blue-black enamel, back when they were offering it, but they had trouble with the finish, so we switched to regular black. I was irritated at the time, but actually I think they look great in black, now. I have lost zero sleep over this.

 

[begreen]

Top load is a reason to avoid a stove, not a good reason to buy one. Trust me, I had three top load stoves.

The Ashford has a full-height door. There is no firebox volume to be had above the door opening. You just load north-south right thru the front door.

Side load would make zero sense, with a square firebox. That’s only useful for shallow stoves that must be loaded East-west.

I ordered my Ashfords in blue-black enamel, back when they were offering it, but they had trouble with the finish, so we switched to regular black. I was irritated at the time, but actually I think they look great in black, now. I have lost zero sleep over this.

3 stoves, all the same model. There are other executions that have been more successful. Having owned an original VC stove I grew to like the top loading feature. They have a decent design. I agree though, it's not a necessity and I get a whole lot less arm hairs singed with the big door on the T6. It's a shame that BK didn't pursue the blue-black enamel. I saw one on the HPBA floor and was almost ready to buy one, but BKVP thought it ugly and pulled the color.

 

[Ashful]

3 stoves, all the same model. There are other executions that have been more successful. Having owned an original VC stove I grew to like the top loading feature. They have a decent design. I agree though, it's not a necessity and I get a whole lot less arm hairs singed with the big door on the T6. It's a shame that BK didn't pursue the blue-black enamel. I saw one on the HPBA floor and was almost ready to buy one, but BKVP thought it ugly and pulled the color.

I don’t think his personal opinion of the color had anything to do with it, as I said, I had two on order in that color. They had some technical problems with it, and I think with everything going on at the time, just never got it resolved.

Re: top load doors, maybe you’re right, but I have my doubts. I see the same issues with many of them:

1. Nothing but the (light) weight of the door providing the seal, making them very prone to leak, esp. if gasket isn’t absolutely brand-new perfect.

2. Gasket placed around the hole on the stove top is very prone to damage while loading. Why don’t more put it on the door itself? I must have replaced my top load door gasket 4x for each time I had to touch the front door gasket.

3. Top door typically smaller than front door, meaning you need to stock shorter splits to use it.

4. Reburn tech moved to front or back of firebox, often affecting primary door height, reducing the amount of wood that can be loaded from the front.

5. You still need to open the front doors to rake your coals and ash before loading, so what’s the point?

6. It’s impractical to completely load a stove from bottom up, thru the top door. You noted the burned arms, I experienced this many times myself.

7. Usually eliminates the possibility of a convection top, and requires greater top clearances (affects those of us with stoves under lintels or mantels).

The only way I found to practically use a top load door was to do the ash separatation and 75% of loading from the front, then close the front doors and drop the last split or two in from the top. This is because of item 4 above.

I’d not let this be the primary factor in my choice of stove, but I’d always favor a stove without the top load door, over one with it.

 

[begreen]

You bring up some good points for the old Firelight, though not every top-load is made this way. I had no unusual issue with the top gasket on the Resolute. The Isle Royale and the Jotul F50 use a swing away secondary rack for standard secondary combustion. With our stove I didn't have to rake the coal bed forward, just dropped in more wood. But like I said, I got over the differences and don't miss the top load. The thermostatic feature on the Resolute was nice, I liked that.

The Jotul F50 and the Harman Oakwood both offer a unique feature only in a top-loader, top grilling over the coal bed. I haven't tried this, but some folks love it.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/jotul-wintergrill.105082/

 

[Cast Iron]

Ashful: reply to your points re: top loading to come. I need to think.
BTW: blue/black Jotul finish is extraordinarily durable over the many many years burning and at times abusing the Oslo.
Take my ash...please,

 

[Cast Iron]

.
Dear Mr. Ash:
Checked out the new Flexburns in the shop and a friend's old Encore cat 2550. You have some points but overall you're wrong on this stove's top load

1. Nothing but the (light) weight of the door providing the seal, making them very prone to leak, esp. if gasket isn’t absolutely brand-new perfect.

Gaskets do wear on tops, agreed, but just the same as all opening gaskets. They need replacing often if used often Use your new dollar bill. This is not the Firelight.

2. Gasket placed around the hole on the stove top is very prone to damage while loading. Why don’t more put it on the door itself? I must have replaced my top load door gasket 4x for each time I had to touch the front door gasket.

Any opening door gaskets are prone to being hit, front, side, top. Just be careful when loading splits.

3. Top door typically smaller than front door, meaning you need to stock shorter splits to use it.

The opening in the older cat Encore/Defiants are wide. The Encore Flexburn is 8.5" x 16.5 " into a 2.3 sq ft firebox. Plenty of room to drop in splits up to 20" long. They said it was not a problem.

4. Reburn tech moved to front or back of firebox, often affecting primary door height, reducing the amount of wood that can be loaded from the front.

Don't really know if this is a problem. It did not look like it would be with my OCD exam of the Flexburn.

5. You still need to open the front doors to rake your coals and ash before loading, so what’s the point?

No, no. The Encore 2550 owners say they never open the fron for anything but 'glass' cleaning. Easy to rake with a shovel FROM THE TOP.

6. It’s impractical to completely load a stove from bottom up, thru the top door. You noted the burned arms, I experienced this many times myself.

Easy--drop splits from the top down to the coals. No holding, no careful stacking, just drop carefully up to the top. What could be simpler ?

7. Usually eliminates the possibility of a convection top, and requires greater top clearances (affects those of us with stoves under lintels or mantels).

We ain't got no lintels or mantels to worry about. No "convection" top necessary anyhow.

The only way I found to practically use a top load door was to do the ash separatation and 75% of loading from the front, then close the front doors and drop the last split or two in from the top. This is because of item 4 above.

I’d not let this be the primary factor in my choice of stove, but I’d always favor a stove without the top load door, over one with it.

Finally, she says "get a top loading stove so I don't need to bend over and carefully place and stack splits for a fire. " Hey Ash, do you obey ?

 

[jetsam]

Finally, she says "get a top loading stove so I don't need to bend over and carefully place and stack splits for a fire. " Hey Ash, do you obey ?

I told her I was getting a BK and she'd only ever have to load it if I was out of town or dead, because I am not often at work or asleep for more than 24 hours at a clip.

That has worked out pretty well.

 

[Cast Iron]

Dead.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

Trust me, the only reason I'm not looking at the Ashford right now is cost. With Woodstock's sale prices it's significantly more expensive, and that's a real concern for us. If the performance difference is minimal, I'm going with a Woodstock. I recognize that the BK has some features that I'll probably miss, but them's the breaks when you're on a budget.

In other news, we did our final walk through on the house and I was looking at the place where the stove is to go.

Can anyone identify the purpose of this port in the floor?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PeQ0NUfVvp6su7UD3

Also, can anyone tell me if my chimney has a liner?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tnb01vJimadkjD9G2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9ycGS7nXXSiixKXo2

We were also checking as to whether we have 2 chimney flue, since there is an open fireplace on the other side of the brick chimney. It loooooks like we do???? That's the view straight up the woodstove's flue.

 

[moresnow]

What does the tag on the floor port read? Just guessing, but it may be a outside air supply. Looks like a proper cleaning is in order to really cipher what you are dealing with.

 

[Cast Iron]

You are buying an antique house. Old houses had no plumbing, often no outhouse. You now have an antique waste disposal.
It is not an OAK.
Congratulations !

 

[begreen]

Can we assume this is at the back of the fireplace? The label appears to say - Oracon Fire Breather. There is a crimped metal duct feeding it. It certainly appears to be an outside air supply. Unless it has been blocked off, you should be able to find the inlet outside near this location.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Can we assume this is at the back of the fireplace? The label appears to say - Oracon Fire Breather. There is a crimped metal duct feeding it. It certainly appears to be an outside air supply. Unless it has been blocked off, you should be able to find the inlet outside near this location.

Dragon Fire Breather, I think.

I’m no expert on outside air supplies. The text was just quite clear to me, perhaps because my oldest child just checked a book out of the library about how to draw dragons.

 

[begreen]

Dragon Fire Breather?

I think you're right. Your eyes are sharper than mine. Time to get out the magnifiers.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Right you are. Your eyes are sharper than mine.

Your eyes must still be pretty quick as I took about a minute to add to my post and you’d already seen it.

 

[jetsam]

Fireplace outside air inlet

Looks like the bit that regulates airflow is missing.

 

[Ashful]

Trust me, the only reason I'm not looking at the Ashford right now is cost. With Woodstock's sale prices it's significantly more expensive, and that's a real concern for us. If the performance difference is minimal, I'm going with a Woodstock. I recognize that the BK has some features that I'll probably miss, but them's the breaks when you're on a budget.

In other news, we did our final walk through on the house and I was looking at the place where the stove is to go.

Can anyone identify the purpose of this port in the floor?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PeQ0NUfVvp6su7UD3

Also, can anyone tell me if my chimney has a liner?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tnb01vJimadkjD9G2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9ycGS7nXXSiixKXo2

We were also checking as to whether we have 2 chimney flue, since there is an open fireplace on the other side of the brick chimney. It loooooks like we do???? That's the view straight up the woodstove's flue.

Woodstock makes great stoves, but they generally rely on radiant heat transfer, so don’t try placing one near exterior masonry, and don’t ever even THINK about putting one in a fireplace.

I looked pretty seriously at Woodstock several years ago. Great company, great stoves... in the right setting.

 

[firefighterjake]

So... why not the Ashford?

It's one I would consider.

 

[Gumbyagain]

I have no experience with any of these stoves, but spent countless hours here and elsewhere searching for the idea solution to install in my home. I looked at the Jotul line and my wife is still mad that I did not buy their pretty little cast stove (Castine i think it was) But the tiny firebox and secondary only burn times removed that from my choices, I really liked the functionality of the F50 with front and top load option but it was a half inch too tall to fit my location and no way to adjust the height. Another trip to a second dealership and I looked over the Buck line and Harmon that would fit my application. So more research and I decided that the Harmon would be more trouble with its downdraft burn system than I wanted to tackle and the wife did not like the Buck. I really wanted the Progressive Hybrid but wife said we were not spending that much money, so we compromised on the Ideal Steel and it should be here in a few weeks.
The Harmon dealer is going to install it and the liner when it arrives and they let me ship it to their warehouse. Very happy so far with Englands stove store in Maryville TN. Will post more after the install.