Haha! Ok, I'll bite - waiting for my first Woodstock stove, which will be delivered in about a month. Couldn't even consider a BK because they don't make rear vented stoves, and that's what I, and many other people, need for my setup. Most if not all Woodstock stoves can be rear or top vented. Sounds to me like Woodstock - 1, BK - 0
Help a Newbie pick a stove!
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Haha! Ok, I'll bite - waiting for my first Woodstock stove, which will be delivered in about a month. Couldn't even consider a BK because they don't make rear vented stoves, and that's what I, and many other people, need for my setup. Most if not all Woodstock stoves can be rear or top vented. Sounds to me like Woodstock - 1, BK - 0
Hi All!
Long time lurker first time poster.My Fiance and I are in the process of purchasing a lovely little home on an Island here in Maine. It's a very open saltbox style house, about 1300sq/ft. The 2nd floor is exposed from the first via a catwalk that connects the two bedrooms. The brick chimney is right in the middle of the home, with an open fireplace on one side, and a wood stove ready port on the other. The stove would be right when you enter the house, opposite the side of the living room, kitchen, etc. One great thing heating wise is it has ample southern facing windows. It also has a forced air heating system via an oil furnace. The previous owner heated mostly with wood, and we'd like to do the same. Congratulations . . . connected island or island requiring a ferry?
I'm totally new to wood stoves. I've only used them in cabin rentals. I have a few questions, and I'd love to take recommendations as to models if you have any. Bear in mind that as a rule folks here -- or any other site where folks can offer opinions on products for that matter -- tend to recommend what they know or what they own so there is almost always a bias. For example, I've only burned in two pre-EPA stoves and one EPA stove so my experience is quite limited.
It seems like people are pretty down on catalytic stoves, especially those from Vermont Castings. On the other hand, if I get a handle on how to use one, it seems like it could have significant advantages. Worth the risk? I wouldn't say there is any risk with a cat stove . . . more of a personal choice. I also wouldn't say folks are really down on cat stoves. Folks in the general population might be against them . . . or stove shops that do not sell cat stoves, but as a rule, folks here would most likely say they have some nice benefits with few disadvantages -- the biggest being the cost of having to replace the cat and perhaps the need for well seasoned wood (although one could argue that even secondary burning stoves need well seasoned wood.) Many folks here are not particularly fond of Vermont Castings . . . mainly due to the recent past with quality issues, warranty issues, etc. from being sold so often.
On the size ratings. If a stove is good for lets say 1500sq/ft, is it really sufficient for my needs, or would I be better off sizing up to something good for 2500 sq/ft? Depends. Depends on the home's insulation. Depends on the micro-climate. For example, living on an island in southern Maine on the ocean may present a very different experience if the home is on an island on Moosehead Lake in Greenville. Having the open second floor also changes things a bit. In general some of the best experience I gained here a long time ago when researching stoves was to figure out the square footage and then go one stove up in size.
I had wanted to shop used, but stories of rebuilds are scaring me off a little... Used can be a good deal . . . if you know what to look for. If you don't have the knowledge I would respectfully suggest buying new.
On models, I like the looks of the Jotul F55, and the VC Intrepid II. I'm open to any recommendations you may have! $2500ish would probably be the max of my budget right now. The Jotul F55 is well liked, but there are a lot of other brands that are pretty highly liked as well. Personally I've had very good luck with my Jotul Oslo. The Englander/Summer's Heat line gets good marks for folks on a budget. Cat stoves that are liked include Woodstock (which has frequent sales, so if you miss this one, just wait a bit and you can catch the next one) and Blaze King.
Slocum
Member
I just ordered a ideal steel from Woodstock yesterday. Heck of a sale!! Looking forward to getting stove even though it's going to be to warm to use it. Do your home work and take a good look at Woodstock
Those burn times on the Blaze King's sound pretty dang impressive. And I have to say I like their design a little bit more than the Woodstocks. My stove will be right in the entrance to our home, pretty much the first thing you see. So I do want it to have a great look to it. That's why I'm bummed to hear negative things about the Vermont Castings stoves. That Intrepid II is a beauty.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
Look at Kuma too. If I couldn't have a BK, their Sequoia would be high on my list (though not for a 1400sf house!). That thing is such a beast that I can almost forgive it for being a noncat.
You may have already, but if not, make sure you look through the various options of Woodstock stoves - the look of their all soapstone stoves is very different from their steel stoves.
Rearscreen
Minister of Fire
Firefighterjake said: "tend to recommend what they know or what they own so there is almost always a bias."
Maybe, but I would love to put a BK in here vs my PH for a season as for what I am gathering they are great stoves with thought behind the design. Maybe they would be better for my situation. I'm very happy with the Woodstock but would be willing to try.
Maybe, but I would love to put a BK in here vs my PH for a season as for what I am gathering they are great stoves with thought behind the design. Maybe they would be better for my situation. I'm very happy with the Woodstock but would be willing to try.
However, @Rearscreen , if I'm not mistaken, your setup is a rear vent, thus ruling out a BK, no? Any thoughts/info on why BK doesn't make a rear venting option?
Rearscreen
Minister of Fire
Excellent question and as I was cooking my dinner a few minutes ago on the PH that thought crossed my mind. - "I wouldn't be able to actually hook the BK up". And, is exactly why, in my situation I was forced to Woodstock. Not only did they make soapstone which I insisted on it for it's capacitance characteristics, and it's size btu output, but also for the stubby leg option that would fit right into the existing hearth.
I know very little about BK stoves. The only thing I know about BK is they are very good and I would love to own one. I do know that Woodstock is a very small company and very nimble and has at least one smartie pants in the internal flow design department. Possibly BK can not get the performance by rear exiting and possibly Woodstock compromises by rear exiting option. I don't know. But my hot dog, beans and corn were good tonight.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Thanks for the info! I wonder how long ago your rear stove option was, and if they might do better now as so many people are aware of at least one company that makes top notch rear venting cat stoves. I know I would have looked seriously at a BK if you had a rear vent option (and a rear vent that would fit within my 30" fireplace firebox opening), sounds like @Rearscreen would have too, and I'm sure there are plenty of others out there too for whom BK was simply off the table because of our need for a rear vent. I imagine a new design requires a ton of work, money and time. That said, seems like it would be a good move on BK's part to expand customer base (not that you have any shortage of fans and customers!)
Ashful
Minister of Fire
It’s funny, I looked at Woodstock in 2012, and the thing that killed that deal was the only stove I liked from their 2012 lineup was rear vent and side load only. I can’t do rear vent in my fireplaces, and side loading them would have been very difficult.
Different strokes for different folks.
Different strokes for different folks.
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If BK or Woodstock, if and only if, they made a stove as nice looking as the VC Defiant or Encore, we would get one. Both companies (Jotul and PE on this list) have excellent reps for quality and service over time. BK has their fine pitch and tech guy ( why only BK online ? ).
Add to the specs that she demands
: top loading, thermostatic primary air, AND at least one 'nice' enamel color like blue/black or red. Then the decision would be easy. No go with that brown, shiny black, painted cast (Woodstock), or white.
We will see how the new and improved VC Flexburn from HHT does. Reports to come when I install the thing late April.
Before ordering the Encore Flexburn, I did get the Owner's Manual and the Service Manual. Many positive changes in the stove such as gasketing the cast plates rather than cement, stoves come with heatshields, new ash pan release, and a cat probe in the rear. The refractory looks and feels bombproof . Let's hope that VC has made a comeback from the original Vermont maker in the 80's.
Add to the specs that she demands
: top loading, thermostatic primary air, AND at least one 'nice' enamel color like blue/black or red. Then the decision would be easy. No go with that brown, shiny black, painted cast (Woodstock), or white.We will see how the new and improved VC Flexburn from HHT does. Reports to come when I install the thing late April.
Before ordering the Encore Flexburn, I did get the Owner's Manual and the Service Manual. Many positive changes in the stove such as gasketing the cast plates rather than cement, stoves come with heatshields, new ash pan release, and a cat probe in the rear. The refractory looks and feels bombproof . Let's hope that VC has made a comeback from the original Vermont maker in the 80's.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
@Cast Iron, this is why I was looking at Woodstock in 2012, BK did not have any stoves that I considered cosmetically acceptable, for my house. Then they came out with the Ashford, which is a thing of beauty.
I had two Jotul Firelights, where the Ashfords sit now. Those big Jotuls were beautiful stoves, and top loaders to boot. I used to have the false notion in my head that top loading was an advantage, but that is so wrong. Top load stoves are almost always E/W loaders, while my new BKs can be loaded N/S, which is so much better for filling a stove. I don’t miss that extra door, which needed re-gasketing at least 4x as often as the the front doors.
I had two Jotul Firelights, where the Ashfords sit now. Those big Jotuls were beautiful stoves, and top loaders to boot. I used to have the false notion in my head that top loading was an advantage, but that is so wrong. Top load stoves are almost always E/W loaders, while my new BKs can be loaded N/S, which is so much better for filling a stove. I don’t miss that extra door, which needed re-gasketing at least 4x as often as the the front doors.
Agreed. But, she says "top loading", no more side load bending. Will not consider front loading "at all".
Better obey, or else.
Better obey, or else.
XmasTreefarmer
Feeling the Heat
NortheastPhotographic - My recommendation is to take your time. Don't rush this - it's the end of the heating season no matter what you do right now, you won't be burning your new stove until Fall, 2018. I liked one of the posts that said to start to think about your wood - but you'll have to be careful - you don't know what size log your stove will take!
Having just gotten a new stove (replaced an old VC Defiant that I've been burning for the last 30 years) I'm really familiar with all of the decisions that go into this. Let me itemize a few:
Appearance - This is a huge factor for some, and a 'don't care' for others. Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Burn Time - How important is this to you? Some folks like to load the stove and come back in 30 hrs to see how things look - some folks actually like checking the stove and taking a poke at the wood now and then.
Loading - Do you need a side door? If so, which side? Load from front? If so, which way does the door have to swing for ease of loading?
Paint or Enamel - Do you want a stove that you'll never have to re-paint or touch-up? If so, you need to go enamel (but you need to be careful - no smacking it with your poker or ash bucket or whatever.
Ash pan - Do you care? As they say, some folks swear by them, some swear at them
Capacity - You don't want to go too big or too small. Some will say that you should always error on the large side. Some will say to err on the small size.
I could add quite a few more things to the list - Dealer close by?, E/W loading or N/S?, shape?, cook or no-cook?, and on and on.
Take your time: draw out your room, draw out your hearth, see what "shape" of stove would fit best and look best to you. Walk yourself through where your wood will be, where you will start and re-load from. While I was shopping, we found a stove that we loved the look and heating capability, but it was an E/W loader and would have stuck out into the room too much. Another stove that we liked only had a side load door on the right, and we needed it on the left. It can be frustrating at times, but do have fun with it!
Welcome to the forum!
Having just gotten a new stove (replaced an old VC Defiant that I've been burning for the last 30 years) I'm really familiar with all of the decisions that go into this. Let me itemize a few:
Appearance - This is a huge factor for some, and a 'don't care' for others. Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Burn Time - How important is this to you? Some folks like to load the stove and come back in 30 hrs to see how things look - some folks actually like checking the stove and taking a poke at the wood now and then.
Loading - Do you need a side door? If so, which side? Load from front? If so, which way does the door have to swing for ease of loading?
Paint or Enamel - Do you want a stove that you'll never have to re-paint or touch-up? If so, you need to go enamel (but you need to be careful - no smacking it with your poker or ash bucket or whatever.
Ash pan - Do you care? As they say, some folks swear by them, some swear at them
Capacity - You don't want to go too big or too small. Some will say that you should always error on the large side. Some will say to err on the small size.
I could add quite a few more things to the list - Dealer close by?, E/W loading or N/S?, shape?, cook or no-cook?, and on and on.
Take your time: draw out your room, draw out your hearth, see what "shape" of stove would fit best and look best to you. Walk yourself through where your wood will be, where you will start and re-load from. While I was shopping, we found a stove that we loved the look and heating capability, but it was an E/W loader and would have stuck out into the room too much. Another stove that we liked only had a side load door on the right, and we needed it on the left. It can be frustrating at times, but do have fun with it!
Welcome to the forum!
Very good points xmas. A strong local dealer network can be important for a new wood burner. Hearth and clearance requirements can be importand for some folks. Drafting requirements can also be important, especially for one story installs with a shorter flue. One might also consider maintenance including, ease of cleaning, frequency of parts replacement and cost over time.
Could not agree more. These last 2 posts kind of sum it up.
The VC problems we hope are in the past; Encore Flexburn is ordered in blue/black enamel. Dealer checked out. Increased warranty on everything in the Flexburns ( check out the Owner's Manual online). Concern only about the cat and 'reburn' damper assembly, which is under warranty. Gaskets are normal maintenence. The cat has a 3 year( not "prorated" ) replacement warranty. Flexburns come with rear and bottom heat shields, and a cat probe. Top or rear flue. To be continued.
XmasTreefarmer
Feeling the Heat
We'll look forward to your reports on the new VC Encore once you have her up and running (and anything else you have between now and then!).
Well we went to a local dealer today. We saw the VC models, the BK models, and some Jotul stoves. The Blaze King Ashford was just incredibly impressive. The fit and finish, latching and even design were all fantastic. However even the Ashford 20 is at the top of our price range. The VC Encore is a beauty, but if I'm going to spend I feel like the Ashford is really brings the goods. The Jotul's were pretty impressive too, certainly a money saver and they felt and looked top notch. However over the course of our home ownership, would the savings due to efficiency really add up?
The wild card for me is still the Woodstock Ideal Steel. I still don't like the look of them all that much, though I kind of don't mind the simple black version.... However I do respect the stated performance and price!
It's a conundrum!
The wild card for me is still the Woodstock Ideal Steel. I still don't like the look of them all that much, though I kind of don't mind the simple black version.... However I do respect the stated performance and price!
It's a conundrum!
Ashful
Minister of Fire
My unsolicited opinion on each of the four you mention here:
Jotul: Quality and cosmetics are superb, but performance is not very impressive, when compared to Woodstock or BK. They also refuse to take support calls from customers, forcing you to work thru dealers. That's fine, if you never have a problem with your local dealer, and if that dealer is good.
VC: A decade-long list of quality problems, and maybe they're working past some of those, but I have trouble understanding why anyone would want to support this company with their hard-earned dollars. Google the stories about the Monessen Hearth Systems Company (MHSC) acquisition of VC from Canadian Fireplace Manufacturers Corp. (CFM). You will find many customers who learned the warranties on their brand new stoves were cancelled, and they could not buy parts to repair their new stoves, when the entire line was dropped and reworked. That sort of stuff is inexcusable.
Blaze King: Obviously my favorite, I just sold three old Jotuls and replaced them with two BKs in 2014. I was enviously watching the BK burners with their 40 hour burn times from the sidelines, wishing they made a more traditional cast looking stove, until they came out with the Ashfords. BK is known for the longest burn time capability, excellent technology, and fantastic customer support. If I needed another stove today, it would be another BK.
Woodstock: A company I hold in every bit as high regard as BK, but for several reasons I won't bore you with here, their stoves would not work in my house. You will find many hotly-debated threads between the BK owners and Woodstock owners, for very good reason, these two companies are held in the highest regard by owners of their respective stoves. This forum is filled with success stories of Woodstock installs, and examples of how that company goes above and beyond to support their customers.
The BK guys make fun of the shorter Woodstock burn times, the Woodstock guys make fun of the classic BK's looking like washing machines, but there's really almost nothing negative you can say about either. I think the Ashford is prettier than any soapstone box, but beauty is the eye of the beholder.
DuaeGuttae
Minister of Fire
It’s good that you have some excellent choices. Perhaps you could see the Ideal Steel in person one of these days and find out how the aesthetics compare.
One factor to consider is your installation. Are you planning to do it yourself or go with a professional? Does the stove dealer give a package deal if he does the installation, or would you be using an independent installer either way? Do you know what your insurance requires? Picking an appropriate stove needs to consider the installation of that stove as well.
The good news is that the bulk of the heating season is over. You’ve got some time to move into that new house and mull things over. Have fun.
Yeah Installation is an issue, so I'm planning to give Woodstock a call sometime soon to ask them about how it all works. Not sure I'm super confident I could DIY it...
I had mixed feelings about DYI'ing my chimney liner and in the end hired a chimney company as my chimney is very tall and seemed like a potentially precarious situation for me to be in. When they came, they ran into all sorts of mortar snots they had to knock out that I simply wouldn't have had the tools for (nor knowledge of how to go about). My insurance form also had a question about if everything was professionally installed, and did I pull a permit and have it inspected (both of which I did). I feel this was all money well spent. That said, look around as some so-called pros will want to cut corners, not insulate a liner, tell you they won't pull a permit or you don't need one, etc. You also may find costs vary wildly from one company to the next. In the end, I got a company that was pro, had one of the best prices, gave me the forms necessary to pull a permit in their name (I saved money by them not having to go in to get the permit, but was able to have it be in their name). You may or may not need all of this, but go into it with an abundance of research before hand (much of which this site will help you with!). Woodstock can also be a great resource.
A wild card can often win the game! For me both the Ideal Steel and the colors I went with were my wild cards! The two things that won me over to going with the IS were the performance of the stove itself and Woodstock's support, which included helping me make sure the stove would work in my setup, meeting clearances and giving me what I was looking for. This was far, far, far from my experience with two Jotul and two Quadrafire dealers. As for the colors, well they were the ones my wife wanted, so I guess you have your explanation of what won me over there! (Fortunately I too liked her color choice!).
Good luck and keep us updated!
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