EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Just going to post this. But it appears they will “simplify” their tiers lowing the efficiency threshold to qualify.
I never heard of CEE before.
Heat Pump Tax Credit - Best Explanation I have seen
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I never heard of CEE before.
It would be nice if they had a bonus credit for the super efficient units to encourage their production. My guess is the second tier units like Mr Cool will have a tougher time meeting higher standards. The problem is some of the cold climate units are optimized for very low temps and their intermediate efficiencies may not be top tier. Then again even middle of the road units are 2.5 times more efficient than electric baseboard.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
They will probably use SEER. Maybe. No real idea but that really is not the best efficiency measure.
There is already a shortage of installers and this is going to make it tougher.I'm reviving this thread from last year where there was a lot of talk about credits and rebates that were going to be available "next year".
Well, it's now "next year - 2023", and I'm wondering if anyone is seeing the state administered rebates that were predicted? There was a lot of talk about a $1,750 HPWH rebate that might or might not be means tested. All I see here in April 2023 is a Fed. 30% up to $2,000 tax credit that appears non-refundable.
Montana isn't the kind of state that is going to be in the lead when it comes to state administering any Fed program, but Google isn't showing me where any other state is doing this.
I'd like to add a 110v HPWH to my setup, but I'm not taking the reliability gamble at full price at this point, so I ask for me, but also for the group, as a lot of people comment on what they got through their local utility, but most on here are not on THEIR local utility, so I thought I'd again bring up the Fed/State programs that are more universal.
Well, it's now "next year - 2023", and I'm wondering if anyone is seeing the state administered rebates that were predicted? There was a lot of talk about a $1,750 HPWH rebate that might or might not be means tested. All I see here in April 2023 is a Fed. 30% up to $2,000 tax credit that appears non-refundable.
Montana isn't the kind of state that is going to be in the lead when it comes to state administering any Fed program, but Google isn't showing me where any other state is doing this.
I'd like to add a 110v HPWH to my setup, but I'm not taking the reliability gamble at full price at this point, so I ask for me, but also for the group, as a lot of people comment on what they got through their local utility, but most on here are not on THEIR local utility, so I thought I'd again bring up the Fed/State programs that are more universal.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
This is dated march 17. I have not heard anything yet on state programs this year.
Here is the thing the 110v are ok but just go for the full 220v. You are in a cold climate having fast recharge on 240v is the right way. Most the big 120v ones require a dedicated circuit. So if adding one just add a 220v. If panel space is an issue I get it. But I’m guessing most homes with only a single open slot will be upgrading a panel in the next 10 years.
And if you can get the credit in the whole installation. Yes that HPWH needs a new panel.
What you say makes total sense - for any normal setup. I have a weird setup where I do almost all of my DHW with wood, but I'm pulling the DHW heat from warm air, so peak temperature is limited. I'd like to use the HPWH to just maintain the heat between firings in the shoulder weather, and to be the primary for the month or two when I'm not space heating. During that month or two of the warmest weather the cooling effect would be a side benefit. Also, having the ability to add, on demand, that 10 degrees that makes the difference between a cool shower and a hot shower would also allow more flexibility in use in the winter as well.
So, that's why I was focused on the 110v, as it would be very difficult to add a circuit to the location I need. I have an extra 20a 110v circuit, and don't need the resistance heat capability.
BUT - I just recalled that I've seen limited amp draw 240v HPWHs though, and so-SMH what I really need to do is refine my thinking. As long as it doesn't need a neutral, I can just use the existing circuit. Heck I even have the 220v breaker sitting on the panel from some other swapping around that was done. That would broaden my WH choices, as well as add resistive capability I don't intend to use, but why not preserve the option? The thing I would lose is it wouldn't run on my smaller 110v only generator.
AND - Likewise, if I change that circuit to 220v, I should be able to do what I seek to do with a plain old 3800w resistive heater. I'll lose the cooling, but I'd also lose complexity, noise, and potentially gain reliability. Hmmm...
Probably would go HPWH if the rebates appear, but unless someone else takes over the house, my use-case wouldn't pay for it. We'll see, I guess, since I have a couple more months until summer appears.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
I think the first geospring units had a relatively higher failure rate. 3 years zero issues with mine. It does need a hard reset (power off for 60 seconds) once a year as it gets stuck running fan with no compressor then kicks on electric element. I would not be concerned with reliability if buying a unit that’s been for sale for a couple years. I wouldn’t want one of the first 120v units.
If given your wood boiler I’m wondering if you just wouldn’t be money ahead to just skip the heat pump. It sounds like you just need. More hot water storage. Run some numbers and see if the extra cost of the HPWH would ever pay off. We are a family of 7 my roi vs replacing two 40 gallon tanks is like 5 years.
No, a HPWH would never pay off in my case unless it was about "free". 90+% of my DHW heat is wood. I do need an alternative to the wood for the short time of the year when I can't run the wood furnace due to warm weather and maintenance. I currently have a power vent propane unit, but it's not going to last forever, and I hate it. I hate that it's noisy - about like a hairdryer, and that it's not installed to code - like everything in these parts - so it exhausts directly under a window on the upwind side of the house, and that when the hairdryer vent fan is not running, the pilot fumes are drawn into the house. Also, the exhaust vent is a huge air leak, and at idle it has a tendency to draw cold air through the unit cooling the water if I do try to use it in cold weather, so it's not a good option for peaking the water temp during shoulder season. I dry it out and seal the exhaust for the cold weather. It's one redeeming virtue is that I don't have to fire up a large 220v generator to keep it running when the power is out.
So, wanting to be rid of the power vent, and preferring to have something that would keep puttering along whenever 110v power is available, a 110v HPWH seemed like the best option, especially since it would mainly be used when the slight cooling would be a benefit. Though the early adopter point is an issue with these, especially since I think we're still in the early adopter phase of HPWHs in general.
Using a "free" HPWH that I can't avoid paying for with tax dollars or an inexpensive resistance heater seems like about a wash in the end, so I'd probably default to the more "enlightened" tech, and hope it holds up.
I suppose another option would be to run a 4,500 watt 220v resistance on 110v. That should be around 1.000 watts. It would be plenty for the shoulder season temp peaking I'd like to be able to do, and silent, but would probably be pretty weak when the wood is completely off-line. I will have to look at the math on that. A 110v HPWH should be able to do the job in any circumstance. A 220v HPWH would be stronger for when the wood is off, but more of a pain when the power is off - choices...
But at list price, a HPWH of any sort is off the table for this use. I'm sure it would die or rot away long before I could use its cost in electricity.
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