Heat master g100

[E Yoder]

If the garage is attached a secondary loop through the house is most likely a lot cheaper.
If you pipe it with domestic water first, downstairs air handler, upper air handler, garage it should work fine. Garage blower will occasionally blow cool air but you'll never notice.

 

[logfarmer]

Is the garage attached? It gets real expensive at$12-$15 a foot for lines.

Yes a 20 plate exchanger will supply you with all the hot water you would want.

The garage will not be attached, depending on which side of the house we build on it will be 15’ away or 25’ away.

 

[logfarmer]

Ok I need to clear this up, how does a “loop” work with theses boilers. Would it be a line set feeds the downstairs unit then go to upstairs unit, then back to the boiler? I feel I’m over thinking this

 

[Medic21]

Ok I need to clear this up, how does a “loop” work with theses boilers. Would it be a line set feeds the downstairs unit then go to upstairs unit, then back to the boiler? I feel I’m over thinking this

the big pipe is the primary loop and the pumps are in the secondary loops. Primary just circulates back to boiler.

 

[maple1]

Closely placed Ts being a critical detail...

 

[Medic21]

And, depending on where your boiler is placed you can use the Thermopex from the house to the garage if it’s closer. Save some money.

 

[logfarmer]

the big pipe is the primary loop and the pumps are in the secondary loops. Primary just circulates back to boiler.

View attachment 253949

That looks very nice!! Did you do that yourself?

 

[logfarmer]

And, depending on where your boiler is placed you can use the Thermopex from the house to the garage if it’s closer. Save some money.

Well I was wondering if You could just go from the house out to the garage! That would save some money in one location that I might build the garage.

 

[Medic21]

That looks very nice!! Did you do that yourself?

Yes

 

[E Yoder]

Ok I need to clear this up, how does a “loop” work with theses boilers. Would it be a line set feeds the downstairs unit then go to upstairs unit, then back to the boiler? I feel I’m over thinking this

This might sound too elementary but it's a way of thinking I learned from Dan Holahan- Think of it as a train carrying degrees F in, dropping them off using a heat exchanger, then traveling back empty to refill at the boiler/ OWB. Two ways to move heat, move the train faster or drop off more degrees F, depending on the type of heating system you would aim to use one method or the other (or a combination realistically).
A primary loop typically circulates all the time from the OWB to the house at a higher volume (enough to supply the typical heating load at a cold day) the secondary loops pull off the main loop using supply and return tees as needed to heat your house. Typically starting and stopping flow with each call for heat from the thermostat.
There are various ways to do it, but I usually pump the primary loop through the hot water heat exchanger since I want it hot all the time anyway, then pump a secondary loop (using close tees as in the picture) through the bottom, then the top air handler. By doing one secondary loop the top loop has less chance of freezing since it circulates when the bottom air handler runs.
It takes several relays, but isn't terribly difficult to wire.

 

[Medic21]

I simplified mine. My secondary pumps run all the time. First one is the hot water exchanger and the others are heat exchangers for the forced air systems. One is in the garage so I didn’t want it to freeze if we shut off the heat.

The 15-58 pumps don’t use much electricity on the first setting.

 

[Medic21]

simple drawing. The concept is pushing enough BTUs into the house. BTUs is gpm. Let’s say you move 10gpm and have a 20 degree delta t. That’s roughly 100000 BTUs. The reason to use a primary/secondary system is to allow the efficient use of those BTUs.

what goes into the first tee for a load has to come back out the second tee. So if you take 5 gpm out there is still 5 gpm going through the section between tees. After the load takes the BTUs it needs it mixes back into the 5gpm water at 180 degrees leaving the rest for the next load.

my primary loop is 1 1/4” ID pex and 1 1/2” copper with 1” copper loads. The whole reason is 1” pex would not deliver enough BTUs for the load I have on it in the house. If I ran 2 1” line sets I could have done it that way. This is more efficient to handle the load and cheaper based on the cost of Thermopex.

my system is overkill based on the ability to expand it into a floor heat later if I desire. I can push more BTUs than my furnace is capable of so if I ever swap it for a larger one the piping is there. I plan on building a larger shop with floor heat in the future so I designed the system to handle that from the house.

 

[logfarmer]

This might sound too elementary but it's a way of thinking I learned from Dan Holahan- Think of it as a train carrying degrees F in, dropping them off using a heat exchanger, then traveling back empty to refill at the boiler/ OWB. Two ways to move heat, move the train faster or drop off more degrees F, depending on the type of heating system you would aim to use one method or the other (or a combination realistically).
A primary loop typically circulates all the time from the OWB to the house at a higher volume (enough to supply the typical heating load at a cold day) the secondary loops pull off the main loop using supply and return tees as needed to heat your house. Typically starting and stopping flow with each call for heat from the thermostat.
There are various ways to do it, but I usually pump the primary loop through the hot water heat exchanger since I want it hot all the time anyway, then pump a secondary loop (using close tees as in the picture) through the bottom, then the top air handler. By doing one secondary loop the top loop has less chance of freezing since it circulates when the bottom air handler runs.
It takes several relays, but isn't terribly difficult to wire.

Thank you EYoder, makes since to me now. Have a merry Christmas.

 

[logfarmer]

View attachment 254074

simple drawing. The concept is pushing enough BTUs into the house. BTUs is gpm. Let’s say you move 10gpm and have a 20 degree delta t. That’s roughly 100000 BTUs. The reason to use a primary/secondary system is to allow the efficient use of those BTUs.

what goes into the first tee for a load has to come back out the second tee. So if you take 5 gpm out there is still 5 gpm going through the section between tees. After the load takes the BTUs it needs it mixes back into the 5gpm water at 180 degrees leaving the rest for the next load.

my primary loop is 1 1/4” ID pex and 1 1/2” copper with 1” copper loads. The whole reason is 1” pex would not deliver enough BTUs for the load I have on it in the house. If I ran 2 1” line sets I could have done it that way. This is more efficient to handle the load and cheaper based on the cost of Thermopex.

my system is overkill based on the ability to expand it into a floor heat later if I desire. I can push more BTUs than my furnace is capable of so if I ever swap it for a larger one the piping is there. I plan on building a larger shop with floor heat in the future so I designed the system to handle that from the house.

That drawing is what I needed for sure now it clicks in my head. Thank you for answering my silly questions. Have a merry Christmas

 

[Medic21]

That drawing is what I needed for sure now it clicks in my head. Thank you for answering my silly questions. Have a merry Christmas

You’re welcome. Like I messaged you your more than welcome to come and look at my setup, I got a buddy close also that has a different style of setup also. Anytime you want.

Merry Christmas!!