You may not have issues from the code guys but insurance companies usually dont miss stuff like that.
Hearthstone Mansfield - How Hard to Rebuild?
- Thread starter MDchanic
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BeGreen, I'm not trying to bust your chops here, but my own look at the latest NFPA that I could find (2016) turned up nothing about types of rooms acceptable for solid fuel heating appliances. If I'm wrong (which I may be - I don't do this for a living), please direct me to the proper spot in the code.
Under Chapter 13 of Section 211 ("Solid Fuel Burning Appliances"),
§13.2 ("Location of Appliances"), it specifies that there must be access, that you cannot install in an alcove unless listed for it, that "The space or room shall be sized in order to allow circulation of heated air" (13.2.2.2), "Appliances shall be so located as not to interfere with the circulation of air within the heated space" (13.2.2.3), no installation in areas with flammable vapors, and no installation in the garage.
§13.3 ("Air for Combustion and Ventilation") says that you must have enough of an air supply, and that if not, you need to use outside air.
The remainder of Chapter 13 deals with clearances and accessories, and then it's on the Chapter 14, "Maintenance."
Is stove location also dealt with in another part of the code?
Thanks,
- Eric
Under Chapter 13 of Section 211 ("Solid Fuel Burning Appliances"),
§13.2 ("Location of Appliances"), it specifies that there must be access, that you cannot install in an alcove unless listed for it, that "The space or room shall be sized in order to allow circulation of heated air" (13.2.2.2), "Appliances shall be so located as not to interfere with the circulation of air within the heated space" (13.2.2.3), no installation in areas with flammable vapors, and no installation in the garage.
§13.3 ("Air for Combustion and Ventilation") says that you must have enough of an air supply, and that if not, you need to use outside air.
The remainder of Chapter 13 deals with clearances and accessories, and then it's on the Chapter 14, "Maintenance."
Is stove location also dealt with in another part of the code?
Thanks,
- Eric
Bust away, everyone else does. 
303.3 of the Uniform Mechanical Code lists prohibited locations for a heating appliance. There are exceptions if the stove is very small or the room is really large.
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303.3 of the Uniform Mechanical Code lists prohibited locations for a heating appliance. There are exceptions if the stove is very small or the room is really large.
There are many other sets of codes out there. In many states nfpa211 isnt even code it just informs the state fire and building codes.
Okay, I understand that the whole Art of the Code is Interpretation, so I will not be super critical here, but you are referring to the Uniform Mechanical Code, which regulates the installation of "mechanical systems," and which I had not been aware had any bearing on (non-mechanical) wood stoves.
If I accept as a given that it does, in fact cover wood stoves, then here is the text of the subsection you posted:
303.0 Installation.
303.1 Installation Practices.
Mechanical systems shall be installed in a manner in accordance with this code, applicable standards, and the manufacturer’s installation instructions.
303.2 Listed Appliances.
Except as otherwise provided in the code, the installation of appliances regulated by this code shall be in accordance with the conditions of listing. The appliance installer shall leave the manufacturer’s installation and operating instructions attached to the appliance. Clearances of listed appliances from combustible materials shall be as specified in the listing or on the rating plate.
303.3 Room Large in Comparison to Size of Equipment.
Central-heating furnaces not listed for closet or alcove installation shall be installed in a room or space having a volume not less than 12 times the total volume of the furnace; central-heating boilers not listed for closet or alcove installation shall be installed in a room or space having a volume 16 times the volume of the boiler. Exception: The installation clearances for furnaces and boilers in rooms not large in comparison with the size of the equipment shall be as specified in the appliance listing regardless of whether the enclosure is of combustible or noncombustible materials and shall not be reduced by the protection methods described in Table 303.3(a1) or any other method. Where the ceiling height of the room or space exceeds 8 feet (2438 mm), the volume shall be calculated on the basis of an 8 foot (2438 mm) height.
I would note that the rest of this section refers to obviously mechanical equipment, such as rooftop condensers, that Chapter 3 overall refers to solid fuel devices only in tables that list approved clearances from combustible materials, and that section 305, which states that, "Heating appliances shall be equipped with a listed device or devices that will shut off the fuel supply to the main burner or burners in the event of pilot or ignition failure," there is absolutely no mention of solid-fuel heating devices, either as covered entities, or as exceptions, while all other types of mechanical heating devices are mentioned.303.1 Installation Practices.
Mechanical systems shall be installed in a manner in accordance with this code, applicable standards, and the manufacturer’s installation instructions.
303.2 Listed Appliances.
Except as otherwise provided in the code, the installation of appliances regulated by this code shall be in accordance with the conditions of listing. The appliance installer shall leave the manufacturer’s installation and operating instructions attached to the appliance. Clearances of listed appliances from combustible materials shall be as specified in the listing or on the rating plate.
303.3 Room Large in Comparison to Size of Equipment.
Central-heating furnaces not listed for closet or alcove installation shall be installed in a room or space having a volume not less than 12 times the total volume of the furnace; central-heating boilers not listed for closet or alcove installation shall be installed in a room or space having a volume 16 times the volume of the boiler. Exception: The installation clearances for furnaces and boilers in rooms not large in comparison with the size of the equipment shall be as specified in the appliance listing regardless of whether the enclosure is of combustible or noncombustible materials and shall not be reduced by the protection methods described in Table 303.3(a1) or any other method. Where the ceiling height of the room or space exceeds 8 feet (2438 mm), the volume shall be calculated on the basis of an 8 foot (2438 mm) height.
Section 303.3 clearly applies only to central heating furnaces, which are mechanical devices, and not to non-central heating accessory appliances.
However, even if I were to accept that the wood stove in question were a central heating furnace (which it is not), at roughly 12cu/ft, if we multiply its volume by 12, we get 144cu/ft, which is 1/24th the actual volume of the 3500cu/ft room in which I intend to place it, and therefore well within the requirements of this section (which doesn't apply to it anyway).
Do you have any other references?
- Eric
It's too late to dive into this, but the code I referred to is not for furnaces. It is for heating appliances. I'm not sure where that came from. At 10K btus limit, there is no furnace that small that I know of.
Okay. I'm just trying to understand the applicable codes, as this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say that you can't install a wood stove in a bedroom (where people commonly install wood stoves), and I want to be sure of the rules before I buy anything, or say a word to the local authorities.
- Eric
- Eric
Okay. Maybe it's only people I've seen. Maybe it's an East Coast thing.
I guess I've seen a skewed sample. Thought it was normal.
- Eric
I guess I've seen a skewed sample. Thought it was normal.
- Eric
I live and work on the east coast and out of the thousadns of installs i see i have only seen 2 stoves in bedrooms. Other than hunting cabins.
I believe I covered that in my post above.
But seriously, this is an obvious fact that everybody is aware of, but nobody can provide a code citation for it?
I'm skeptical, and nobody has told me anything to clarify this, other than that I'm missing the obvious.
- Eric
Just because you decided that the mechanical code doesnt apply to wood stoves doesnt make it so. Did you read the exception in the code provided concerning vented room heaters. That is exactly what a wood stove is.
And then I pointed out that even if it does apply, the cited section
1.) applies to central heating furnaces, and
2.) would only kick in only if the room were 1/24th its actual size.
I'm sorry, but building codes are written very carefully by groups of very detail-oriented people, and if a reference to central heaters and furnace-room sizes, with absolutely no mention of bedrooms, sleeping, or even habitation, is the only thing you can cite to back up your assertion that wood stoves are not permitted in bedrooms, then I remain unconvinced.
This should be simple: You tell me that something is not permitted. It is news to me. I ask where that restriction is written. You tell me the code and section. I say, "Oh. Okay. Thank you."
Although completely unrelated to my original question (which has been reasonably well answered, thank you), this has become far more complicated than I would have expected. If, in a society of laws (and rules, and regulations, and codes...), something is forbidden, then there has to be a specific place where that prohibition is recorded. If there is none, then it may be frowned upon by custom, but is is not prohibited.
I would sincerely appreciate being directed to the relevant rule, if there is one, as I do not wish to do anything radically outside of what is allowed, at least not without knowing that I am doing so ahead of time.
- Eric
1.) applies to central heating furnaces, and
2.) would only kick in only if the room were 1/24th its actual size.
I'm sorry, but building codes are written very carefully by groups of very detail-oriented people, and if a reference to central heaters and furnace-room sizes, with absolutely no mention of bedrooms, sleeping, or even habitation, is the only thing you can cite to back up your assertion that wood stoves are not permitted in bedrooms, then I remain unconvinced.
This should be simple: You tell me that something is not permitted. It is news to me. I ask where that restriction is written. You tell me the code and section. I say, "Oh. Okay. Thank you."
Although completely unrelated to my original question (which has been reasonably well answered, thank you), this has become far more complicated than I would have expected. If, in a society of laws (and rules, and regulations, and codes...), something is forbidden, then there has to be a specific place where that prohibition is recorded. If there is none, then it may be frowned upon by custom, but is is not prohibited.
I would sincerely appreciate being directed to the relevant rule, if there is one, as I do not wish to do anything radically outside of what is allowed, at least not without knowing that I am doing so ahead of time.
- Eric
What is the source of the section you are quoting? Is it from an HVAC site? Perhaps that would explain the diffrerence?
Here is the 2015 mechanical code page:
https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/document/IMC2015/chapter-3-general-regulations
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Here is the 2015 mechanical code page:
https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/document/IMC2015/chapter-3-general-regulations
I dont know what version of the international mechanical code you are referencing but it isnt the current one. Because from atleast 2015 on the code referenced refers to prohibited locations for heating appliances. Which addresses your question directly.
I know that it is stated in another code as well. I will find it when i am not working for paying customers
Ah. I had section 303 of the wrong code.
I had gone here: (broken link removed to http://www.iapmo.org/UMC%20Report%20On%20Comments/2012%20Uniform%20Mechanical%20Code%20Cycle/2011%20UMC%20Report%20on%20Comments/PART%204%20Preprint/Chapter%2003.pdf),
to the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials, which was clearly the wrong place.
Since the ICCSafe website appears to have the most diabolically effective copy prevention I have yet encountered, I will retype the relevant section here:
According to this, I will be within the rules if I install a stove with an outside air supply in accordance with manufacturers' instructions (Exception #2).
(I had thought "Direct-vent appliance" referred to a stove with an outside air supply, but review of the ICC's definitions shows that the term refers only to gas-fired appliances).
Now to look at the posts that have popped up since I began writing this reply...
- Eric
I had gone here: (broken link removed to http://www.iapmo.org/UMC%20Report%20On%20Comments/2012%20Uniform%20Mechanical%20Code%20Cycle/2011%20UMC%20Report%20on%20Comments/PART%204%20Preprint/Chapter%2003.pdf),
to the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials, which was clearly the wrong place.
Since the ICCSafe website appears to have the most diabolically effective copy prevention I have yet encountered, I will retype the relevant section here:
2015 International Mechanical Code
303.3 Prohibited Locations
Fuel-fired appliances shall not be located in or obtain combustion air from any of the following rooms or spaces:
1. Sleeping rooms.
2. Bathrooms.
3. Toilet rooms.
4. Storage closets.
5. Surgical rooms.
Exception: This section shall not apply to the following appliances:
1. Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.
2. Solid fuel-fired appliances, provided that combustion air is provided in accordance manufacturers' instructions.
3. Appliances installed in a dedicated enclosure in which all combustion air is taken directly from the outdoors, in accordance with Chapter 7. Access to such an enclosure shall be through a solid door, weatherstripped in accordance with the exterior door air leakage requirements of the International Energy Conservation Code and equipped with an approved self-closing device.
SECTION 303
EQUIPMENT AND APPLIANCE LOCATION
EQUIPMENT AND APPLIANCE LOCATION
303.3 Prohibited Locations
Fuel-fired appliances shall not be located in or obtain combustion air from any of the following rooms or spaces:
1. Sleeping rooms.
2. Bathrooms.
3. Toilet rooms.
4. Storage closets.
5. Surgical rooms.
Exception: This section shall not apply to the following appliances:
1. Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.
2. Solid fuel-fired appliances, provided that combustion air is provided in accordance manufacturers' instructions.
3. Appliances installed in a dedicated enclosure in which all combustion air is taken directly from the outdoors, in accordance with Chapter 7. Access to such an enclosure shall be through a solid door, weatherstripped in accordance with the exterior door air leakage requirements of the International Energy Conservation Code and equipped with an approved self-closing device.
According to this, I will be within the rules if I install a stove with an outside air supply in accordance with manufacturers' instructions (Exception #2).
(I had thought "Direct-vent appliance" referred to a stove with an outside air supply, but review of the ICC's definitions shows that the term refers only to gas-fired appliances).
Now to look at the posts that have popped up since I began writing this reply...
- Eric
Sorry. Not trying to get free information from you. A different person posted information that seemed odd to me and I asked for confirmation, which I now have (though it seems to make an exception for stoves that draw all air from outside).
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
- Eric
I beleive that has been edited to say all combustion air the same as the other two now but i will have to check later.
I wasnt saying that at all. Just saying i wasnt spending the time finding the other reference to it now because a am working for people who are paying me. Nothing negative towards you at all.
Screen shot and link provided here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ow-hard-to-rebuild.168007/page-2#post-2254599
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