Hearthstone Manchester issues

[rpwalton]

 

[NYLuke]

Didn't mean to be mean. Given that NYLuke said his wood was dry, I was thinking more of how fast it burns, etc.

No offense taken.. It's just what I have down and around the property.. I don't like to leave it on the ground as the carpenter ants here nest in it.. I agree it does burn faaaaaaaast... Super fast when it in the 10% moisture range. .

We were infested with gypsy moths for two years straight and they killed four-five 80 -100ft oaks that I've yet to take down.. So I do have some alternatives but this stuff needs to go somewhere... lol..

 

[NYLuke]

Just wanted to give another update..

Installed the 45's and they do help with the draft. Improvement is noticeable..
Overfire condition on the cat is still there every time I fill the fire box.. but not getting worse or better,

Dealer has still not been very helpful.. They seem to calling Hearthstone every time I call them and then taking a week to get back to me. I asked them to get me a new cat probe.. but nothing yet.

I still have not seen 400 plus on my external thermometer no matter where I place it.. Hottest area still seems right next to Cat probe where it gets into the 380-390 range. I still haven't turned my oil heat on.. but house is getting cooler with these morning temps in the teens. Still averaging 60-62 when I get up before work.

I have begun to engage the cat even when burning pine.. After I load the box, I just wait until the soot burns off the window then engage.. I can probably engage earlier but I'm still being careful..

On another note..
I screwed just after my last post and started a fire in my stove pipe before the chimney.. My wife chocked the box full of pine and hardwood mix from bed of coals but forgot to disengage the cat. I realized this when the fire was still struggling 10-15 minutes later with the window all sooted up. I immediately opened the cat, opened the air to full.. With all the pent up gasses in the stove. The fire took off like a freight train. After 2-3 minutes I heard some cracking in the stove pipe and was like.... Uh oh.. I damped the stove immediately, but it had already lit off and I had a burn in the pipe for a minute or two.. No damage to the pipe. I took it apart and inspected it, but it was sure hot in the pipe as my flue probe was off the chart for a minute or two.

I had that happen with the old stove once or twice, but this 6" double walled pipe seemed a little more intense.. I figure while I was learning the stove I must have built up a layer of creosote in there and with the gases and poor draft (still had the 90 elbows at the time) The gases in the pipe and creosote lit off.. ooooofff.. kind of scary..

I hate climbing the 12/12 pitch and had brushed the chimney like I do every year, prior to getting the new stove.. but went up that weekend and brushed it again just to be safe.. There was no evidence of fire in the chimney and it was still clean (only had a month burn since I last cleaned it) but I just felt better doing it..



All in all, I'm getting used to the stove, but Im still pissed that I cant talk to anyone at Hearthstone and my dealer is no help..
Going to start on next year's firewood soon.. But it may have to wait a while.. Was building/finishing up a dry stack retaining wall in the yard last weekend and doc says I gave myself 3 hernias.. I'm sure I'll still have a cord or two left from this year.. This thing sips wood compared to the old Federal.. Hope you all are well and thanks for all the advice.. Here's a pic of the wall that did me in..

Luke

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Wow! You’ve had an exciting time!

Be careful!

 

[rpwalton]

Nice wall!

 

[ADKMike]

NYLuke. I can't help but chime in here a little bit. I am in my second year of burning with a Manchester. It's a fantastic stove but to get the most out of it, you have to follow some basic rules I have learned.

First....I hate to spoil the pine party on you property but I would stay away from it. Maybe mix in some seasoned pieces here and there but I would advice against it. Even though it's free! I also stay away from birch for the most part....seasoned and mix in a bit. That's it. I burned 2-3 cord and have never come close to a chimney fire. I cleaned my chimney this summer and things were super clean. I could have skipped a year. Bite the bullet and buy some seasoned hardwood. It will be well worth it!

The draft is a big deal. Someone mentioned earlier that a warm chimney drafts better? I don't think so. The colder the better. Hopefully your new pipe situations has helped with that.

As far as temps. ...I put the thermometer on the side just below the bypas handle off to the left a it....sort of at 7o'clock from the handle. My rule is that I wan't the stove to be 350-400 and the cats in the engage zone...then after we engage...our rule is that the stove stays with both needles facing due north ...straight up....at a minimum.....a bit hotter is perfect. Then you know you are burning nice and efficient.

Finally...as mentioned in many threads now....the cats get clogged with ash big time. Personally, I clean them ever 2 weeks. Hard to get this baby to cool down and find the down day to to it but it's so worth it. You will burn so much more efficiently with clean cats.

Anyway....good luck!

Mike

 

[begreen]

Pine is ok as long as it is well seasoned. That's all that some people burn in parts of the country. Likewise for birch. The problem with pine is that it can be burned almost green because of the pitch content, but pine, or any wood that is poorly seasoned is a recipe for creosote and the potential of a chimney fire.

The draft is a big deal. Someone mentioned earlier that a warm chimney drafts better? I don't think so. The colder the better. Hopefully your new pipe situations has helped with that.

Where is that coming from? A warm chimney absolutely drafts better than a cold one. In the most general terms, cool gases sink, hot gases rise. The differential is what powers draft. we get many people a month at this time of the year that have to warm up their flue before it will draft properly.

 

[ADKMike]

Pine is ok as long as it is well seasoned. That's all that some people burn in parts of the country. Likewise for birch. The problem with pine is that it can be burned almost green because of the pitch content, but pine, or any wood that is poorly seasoned is a recipe for creosote and the potential of a chimney fire.

Where is that coming from? A warm chimney absolutely drafts better than a cold one. In the most general terms, cool gases sink, hot gases rise. The differential is what powers draft. we get many people a month at this time of the year that have to warm up their flue before it will draft properly.

Assuming NY Luke is in NY like me. We have pine everywhere but it’s at the bottom of food chain. Anyone that sells firewood here does not include pine.

Sorry about the chimney temp confusion. What I meant was that the outside temp should be cold. Our chimney is along the outside wall of our home and is about 20-22 ft. …drafts beautifully. We also have a 6” liner which is why we went with the Manchester

 

[begreen]

If hardwood is in plenty supply then it certainly would be my go to fuel. Though I still would keep a stash of pine because it's easy to get, a good shoulder season wood, and good for providing some quick heat when trying to burn down a large coal bed. The other advantage of some softwoods is a lot less ash created. It's why we burn doug fir almost exclusively now. I clean the ash out about twice a season. If I switch to locally available alder, soft maple, madrone, or locust the ash cleaning goes up to twice a month,

 

[kborndale]

Assuming NY Luke is in NY like me. We have pine everywhere but it’s at the bottom of food chain. Anyone that sells firewood here does not include pine.

Sorry about the chimney temp confusion. What I meant was that the outside temp should be cold. Our chimney is along the outside wall of our home and is about 20-22 ft. …drafts beautifully. We also have a 6” liner which is why we went with the Manchester

Absolutely nothing wrong with pine. Yes properly seasoned hardwood is going to give you more heat and last longer but pine seasons in a summer and is great for shoulder season.

 

[Bill S]

Luke - any update on your Hearthstone? Did changing the 90s to 45s help? Hope all is well and warm.

 

[NYLuke]

Hey guys..
I've been meaning to drop by and say hello/give an update.

Things are good. Fully recovered from the hernia operation.. Clean bill of health.. Will be splitting a whole bunch of oak (that I mentioned earlier) this weekend. Since it was dead standing stuff, moisture content is in the 30-35% range so it should be good for next year.

Stove is good.. not great.. Just good.. 45's definitely helped with draft and startup.
Now that colder weather is here. I can definitely say that the house is not as warm as it was with the Federal.
Furnace has begun to run considerably to maintain the temp in the home. Its just not a big heater like the Federal was.
I'm a little disappointed there.

As for the cat, engaged, it sips wood.. However heat output in these temperatures is not what I need.. I've been mostly burning the past week with the cat disengaged to increase the BTU's and get what I can out of it. Even with cat disengaged, wood usage is much less than the Federal. External temp on the stove stays around 400-425max and that is on the side right next to cat probe. Since I figured out that the cat temp probe was off and stopped engaging the cat based on it, I havent had any more fires in the stovepipe. Now I engage only when external temp next to cat is 325+ and have no issues.

However as another member recommended, the fly ash needs to be cleaned every two weeks or it impacts performance. Doesnt take long to do it but I have to let the fire go out and I'm not a fan of that in the colder weather.

Probably the biggest complaint I have is that since I went to my harder woods (Maple, birch and hickory) is that after a day of continuous burning, I end up with a full firebox of coals that I need to burn down and while they are burning down, heat output is diminished. From what I've been reading it seems to be normal for the stove and the amount of coals is definitely magnified if the cat is engaged. , but I think it's a real pain in the ass. Thoughts?

So I'm still learning, but I think I have it figured out pretty well. If I had to give it a grade, I think that from Oct thru December, it would get an A- due to the cat maintenance/cleaning, Jan and Feb are looking to likely be a little painful. However I would imagine Mar to May will be like Oct - Dec and that will be just fine. All in all the family is enjoying the even, longer-lasting warmth/heat of the soapstone over that of the Federal, but with temps in the single digits tonight, Im definitely longing for that 28" firebox lololol..

I hear all the chatter regarding burning pine, but I've been burning dry white pine without issue in the Federal for 15+ years and purchasing a few cords of ash/elm/maple, which is what a lot of the vendors here are selling, at 250-300 a cord just doesn't seem to make sense. Personally, I burn wood for two reasons. One, I enjoy the outdoors and the cutting and splitting keeps me active. The second is the "free" heat. If I'm going to spend $900 a season on firewood, the way I see it I might well spend $1500 and turn up the furnace..

Thanks again for all the help and advice,. Hope you are all well and staying warm.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Glad to hear it’s working out! I like burning dry pine. If you’re down to coals and need heat, throw a little pine on there! It’ll reduce those coals!


Don’t count on that oak being dry by next year.

 

[NYLuke]

Tried some of that dry pine to burn the coals down and it worked like a charm. Thanks for the tip.

Yes, I am a little concerned the oak may not be ready next year.. The tops are pretty dry right now.. like 20%-25% , but the rounds at the bottom 20' of trees were 2' in diameter and still really wet.. After all these years I know better and shouldn't be surprised how wet the base of a dead tree is, but every time I cut one I just stand there shaking my head.. lol..

 

[Joe Bruno]

Hey guys..
I've been meaning to drop by and say hello/give an update.

Things are good. Fully recovered from the hernia operation.. Clean bill of health.. Will be splitting a whole bunch of oak (that I mentioned earlier) this weekend. Since it was dead standing stuff, moisture content is in the 30-35% range so it should be good for next year.

Stove is good.. not great.. Just good.. 45's definitely helped with draft and startup.
Now that colder weather is here. I can definitely say that the house is not as warm as it was with the Federal.
Furnace has begun to run considerably to maintain the temp in the home. Its just not a big heater like the Federal was.
I'm a little disappointed there.

As for the cat, engaged, it sips wood.. However heat output in these temperatures is not what I need.. I've been mostly burning the past week with the cat disengaged to increase the BTU's and get what I can out of it. Even with cat disengaged, wood usage is much less than the Federal. External temp on the stove stays around 400-425max and that is on the side right next to cat probe. Since I figured out that the cat temp probe was off and stopped engaging the cat based on it, I havent had any more fires in the stovepipe. Now I engage only when external temp next to cat is 325+ and have no issues.

However as another member recommended, the fly ash needs to be cleaned every two weeks or it impacts performance. Doesnt take long to do it but I have to let the fire go out and I'm not a fan of that in the colder weather.

Probably the biggest complaint I have is that since I went to my harder woods (Maple, birch and hickory) is that after a day of continuous burning, I end up with a full firebox of coals that I need to burn down and while they are burning down, heat output is diminished. From what I've been reading it seems to be normal for the stove and the amount of coals is definitely magnified if the cat is engaged. , but I think it's a real pain in the ass. Thoughts?

So I'm still learning, but I think I have it figured out pretty well. If I had to give it a grade, I think that from Oct thru December, it would get an A- due to the cat maintenance/cleaning, Jan and Feb are looking to likely be a little painful. However I would imagine Mar to May will be like Oct - Dec and that will be just fine. All in all the family is enjoying the even, longer-lasting warmth/heat of the soapstone over that of the Federal, but with temps in the single digits tonight, Im definitely longing for that 28" firebox lololol..

I hear all the chatter regarding burning pine, but I've been burning dry white pine without issue in the Federal for 15+ years and purchasing a few cords of ash/elm/maple, which is what a lot of the vendors here are selling, at 250-300 a cord just doesn't seem to make sense. Personally, I burn wood for two reasons. One, I enjoy the outdoors and the cutting and splitting keeps me active. The second is the "free" heat. If I'm going to spend $900 a season on firewood, the way I see it I might well spend $1500 and turn up the furnace..

Thanks again for all the help and advice,. Hope you are all well and staying warm.

Hello NYLuke. I read your entire saga with the Hearthstone stove right after I posted my own with the Hearthstone Heritage today. You were really thorough in your answers and I found them helpful. But I do think the Hearthstone stove is a bit of a touchy creature. I like it, not saying I don't, but who knew I was going to be taking up Stove Lessons in my old age? My own wood burning experience was on the farm in Oneida County back in the 70's. It was simple, you put in the wood, adjusted the pipe damper and the air intake (on our 2 Ashleys) and let it go. I guess the flue temps were hot as a lot of air went up and this kept the chimney's clean. I cleaned mine, like all my old timer neighbors who'd been heating with wood since they got the land from the Iroquois, once a year. Dropped a chain down on a rope. Simple. Probably we used the same chain on the tractor wheels in the snow.

In the course of installing my Hearthstone I had to install a 6" SS liner in my 8 x 12 clay tile flue. Never having done this before I had a local guy do it. I was baffled as to how I would be able to join the liner to the stove pipe and the snout Tee and the end cap. My own installation was even more complex as I was venting out the back, rather than out the top as you did and because my stove is only 3" from the wall behind it. Because you expressed concern about having to break your stone work and all, I thought I'd send you some info.

You should run all that I say by a supplier or an installer, I share it only to give you an idea. My own liner came from NE Chimney Supply in Williston VT. They make it all there and their prices are very competitive. You should go to their site and see what a Snout-Tee looks like. Anyway, if your 8" is fairly straight you should be able to get a 6" down it. The tee will already be on the pipe as they lower it from the top. You probably want the cap to be installed securely as well, before lowering it, as you will never get to access it again. This is all doable as the leg of the Snout-Tee, the right angle, is removed. When the tee is lined up with your opening where your thimble is, the leg is inserted and via a clever use of SS strap it is attached on the inside by reaching in with a socket on a very long extension. No need to touch the outside of the tee, which would be impossible anyway. You may lose the thimble, but it will not matter as you will attach your 45 to the leg of the Tee that will be sticking out of your wall (or an extension thereof if the leg is not long enough). Then you can mortar it in, or attach a metal trim collar, as your taste and the dimensions dictate. (By the way, be sure your snout is attached and you are satisfied with the angle (that is, it is at a perfect 90 degrees, before you proceed to finishing on the roof, as once you pack in the insulation up there the liner will not longer be movable and your connnection to your stove will always be crooked).

The CAP on the Tee.
The reason you want a cap (you asked about this) is to make the new liner totally airtight, as it is assumed is your existing 8" tile liner. You don't want to lose draft to a leak and you certainly don't want to lose creosote to one either! After the tee is properly lined up you stuff the space between the 8 and the 6 with insulation to keep cold air from falling down. Then you install a top to bridge the distance between the 8" and the new 6" liners and seal it with silicon. All this is SS. You finish it with a SS rain cap with a bird screen. This is the only item you need to remove when doing a sweep, if you sweep from the top.

When you clean your chimney you will disconnect at the tee, or the thimble, and vac out the soot that fell as you brushed. I suppose you could also brush from below as long as you don't damage the rain cap up on the roof. If it all goes well, you should not have to damage any of your stone work inside the house, or on the roof for that matter.

But hopefully you will have to do none of this as you will get the 8" pipe to work. By the way, if the things you are trying do not work, it occurs to me that perhaps you might consider using 6 inch pipe from the 6" connector on your stove up to the thimble. This idea is based on the notion of fireplace geometry, where we built a throat just behind the lintel. The throat caused the smoke to speed up as it entered the smoke chamber above (in the wall behind the mantle) where it would expand and help repel heavy cold air that might be falling down the chimney. That extra speed might help lift the cold air column that sits in the 8" flue. Just an idea, I've never done it, but it might be bounced off a few others to see what they think. (I used to build Rumford fireplaces, both in CA and in Camden NY).

Last thing. I too was stunned when I called Hearthstone and was curtly cut-off and sent to my supplier. Like my supplier, a large company in Indiana that sells stuff, was going to know how to field a tech question about an installation. I would never have bought had I known how they are over there at Hearthstone. Most unVermont-like, that's for sure.

Good luck

 

[NYLuke]

Hello NYLuke. I read your entire saga with the Hearthstone stove right after I posted my own with the Hearthstone Heritage today. You were really thorough in your answers and I found them helpful. But I do think the Hearthstone stove is a bit of a touchy creature. I like it, not saying I don't, but who knew I was going to be taking up Stove Lessons in my old age? My own wood burning experience was on the farm in Oneida County back in the 70's. It was simple, you put in the wood, adjusted the pipe damper and the air intake (on our 2 Ashleys) and let it go. I guess the flue temps were hot as a lot of air went up and this kept the chimney's clean. I cleaned mine, like all my old timer neighbors who'd been heating with wood since they got the land from the Iroquois, once a year. Dropped a chain down on a rope. Simple. Probably we used the same chain on the tractor wheels in the snow.

In the course of installing my Hearthstone I had to install a 6" SS liner in my 8 x 12 clay tile flue. Never having done this before I had a local guy do it. I was baffled as to how I would be able to join the liner to the stove pipe and the snout Tee and the end cap. My own installation was even more complex as I was venting out the back, rather than out the top as you did and because my stove is only 3" from the wall behind it. Because you expressed concern about having to break your stone work and all, I thought I'd send you some info.

You should run all that I say by a supplier or an installer, I share it only to give you an idea. My own liner came from NE Chimney Supply in Williston VT. They make it all there and their prices are very competitive. You should go to their site and see what a Snout-Tee looks like. Anyway, if your 8" is fairly straight you should be able to get a 6" down it. The tee will already be on the pipe as they lower it from the top. You probably want the cap to be installed securely as well, before lowering it, as you will never get to access it again. This is all doable as the leg of the Snout-Tee, the right angle, is removed. When the tee is lined up with your opening where your thimble is, the leg is inserted and via a clever use of SS strap it is attached on the inside by reaching in with a socket on a very long extension. No need to touch the outside of the tee, which would be impossible anyway. You may lose the thimble, but it will not matter as you will attach your 45 to the leg of the Tee that will be sticking out of your wall (or an extension thereof if the leg is not long enough). Then you can mortar it in, or attach a metal trim collar, as your taste and the dimensions dictate. (By the way, be sure your snout is attached and you are satisfied with the angle (that is, it is at a perfect 90 degrees, before you proceed to finishing on the roof, as once you pack in the insulation up there the liner will not longer be movable and your connnection to your stove will always be crooked).

The CAP on the Tee.
The reason you want a cap (you asked about this) is to make the new liner totally airtight, as it is assumed is your existing 8" tile liner. You don't want to lose draft to a leak and you certainly don't want to lose creosote to one either! After the tee is properly lined up you stuff the space between the 8 and the 6 with insulation to keep cold air from falling down. Then you install a top to bridge the distance between the 8" and the new 6" liners and seal it with silicon. All this is SS. You finish it with a SS rain cap with a bird screen. This is the only item you need to remove when doing a sweep, if you sweep from the top.

When you clean your chimney you will disconnect at the tee, or the thimble, and vac out the soot that fell as you brushed. I suppose you could also brush from below as long as you don't damage the rain cap up on the roof. If it all goes well, you should not have to damage any of your stone work inside the house, or on the roof for that matter.

But hopefully you will have to do none of this as you will get the 8" pipe to work. By the way, if the things you are trying do not work, it occurs to me that perhaps you might consider using 6 inch pipe from the 6" connector on your stove up to the thimble. This idea is based on the notion of fireplace geometry, where we built a throat just behind the lintel. The throat caused the smoke to speed up as it entered the smoke chamber above (in the wall behind the mantle) where it would expand and help repel heavy cold air that might be falling down the chimney. That extra speed might help lift the cold air column that sits in the 8" flue. Just an idea, I've never done it, but it might be bounced off a few others to see what they think. (I used to build Rumford fireplaces, both in CA and in Camden NY).

Last thing. I too was stunned when I called Hearthstone and was curtly cut-off and sent to my supplier. Like my supplier, a large company in Indiana that sells stuff, was going to know how to field a tech question about an installation. I would never have bought had I known how they are over there at Hearthstone. Most unVermont-like, that's for sure.

Good luck

Hi Joe,
I certainly agree... finicky.. touchy.. sensitive.. ALL of the above. It is, no doubt, a pain in the ass.

Additionally, after this last week I'm getting less impressed with the heat it provides.
It claims to heat 2400sq ft. , Yeah maybe in North Carolina or Virginia, but not in Upstate Ny.. It didn't get above 20 ( with morning lows 0 to -12) for a few days here last week so I did a little experiment... I wanted to see how low the ambient temperature in the house would drop just using the Manchester for heat. What I found was the that it dropped a little over 2 degrees a day from 64 to 54 in a matter of 4 days.. I thought it was starting to stabilize, but I'll never know.. I finally relented and turned the heat back on at 54 after my wife knocked me upside the head a few times. lol ..

Granted I'm trying to heat a chalet that has a big footprint and is about 2800 sq feet, but the stove was running 24-7 with all dry hardwood, no cat engaged and it was ccccc cold in here.. The great room with the stove was much warmer than 54 I don't think even on the coldest morning it was below 60, but the other rooms were 54 with my bedroom seeing 49 one morning before I turned the heat back on.

Thanks for the detailed info on the liner and installation. My flue is fairly straight and with the explanation you provided this seems like something I can take on this summer if need be. . Right now I do have 6" double wall pipe from my stove to the thimble (the reduction occurs there) and the 45's have really seemed to help with draft and startup.

Be well and stay warm!
Luke

 

[Bill S]

Hi Luke and all.

Thanks for all the updates - very interesting. I still wonder if the cat thermo had moved from it's original, correct spot - that little dial is easy to move. You might want to call Peter at The Chimney Sweep Shop in Barre, VT. He's a font of information and has a great relationship with Hearthstone - and he's been around a loooong time.

I've had a few years with our Castleton II - the coal situation does require a bit of work. I remove ash every morning (in a nice warm, not hot stove) and that helps keep the air moving. I find the need to ensure some air around the pieces of wood - just a bit. If I pack a few logs tight together, it takes a while before they all catch and then burn good, so I give them a little air - not a lot. I keep the stove humming around 400 - 475, cats engaged with enough time to burn off and then damp the primary as needed - sometimes in the cold weather not at all, sometimes just under 1/2 open. The cats - when I'm getting the ash out - I can make a pile of the hot coals and I cover them with my ash bucket lid. The stones are still nice and warm but with the door open, I can reach in with gloves, sometimes no gloves, remove the pin and first piece of baffle. Vacuum out the cats, give the window a little cleaning (using first some fine ash on a damp paper towel, finishe with some stove glass cleaner, and I'm good for weeks on both the cat and the window - takes about 10 minutes. The window never really gets bad anyway - I just like it clean.

Stay with it Luke - you'll find what works best for you and get in a great rhythm.

From the "for what it's worth" department.

Bill

 

[NYLuke]

Hi Luke and all.

Thanks for all the updates - very interesting. I still wonder if the cat thermo had moved from it's original, correct spot - that little dial is easy to move. You might want to call Peter at The Chimney Sweep Shop in Barre, VT. He's a font of information and has a great relationship with Hearthstone - and he's been around a loooong time.

I've had a few years with our Castleton II - the coal situation does require a bit of work. I remove ash every morning (in a nice warm, not hot stove) and that helps keep the air moving. I find the need to ensure some air around the pieces of wood - just a bit. If I pack a few logs tight together, it takes a while before they all catch and then burn good, so I give them a little air - not a lot. I keep the stove humming around 400 - 475, cats engaged with enough time to burn off and then damp the primary as needed - sometimes in the cold weather not at all, sometimes just under 1/2 open. The cats - when I'm getting the ash out - I can make a pile of the hot coals and I cover them with my ash bucket lid. The stones are still nice and warm but with the door open, I can reach in with gloves, sometimes no gloves, remove the pin and first piece of baffle. Vacuum out the cats, give the window a little cleaning (using first some fine ash on a damp paper towel, finishe with some stove glass cleaner, and I'm good for weeks on both the cat and the window - takes about 10 minutes. The window never really gets bad anyway - I just like it clean.

Stay with it Luke - you'll find what works best for you and get in a great rhythm.

From the "for what it's worth" department.

Bill

Hi Bill,
The cat thermo certainly could have. Since my dealer is no help, I'll never know..
I'm not giving up.. I've got no choice but to stay with it.. It's that or I break it into pieces and throw the thing back through my dealer's window.. Then I'd probably end up with a few more hernias though.. lol..

Question for you.. My window white's out every week. I get 7 days max before it is totally whited out. Is that typical?
I also like it clean and I found the soot works well.. but certainly takes some elbow grease to get it clean.. I just purchased some Rutland White Out and find that it cleans up much easier when I start with that and mix in a little ash.


Luke

 

[Bill S]

Hi Luke,
Something is not right re: your window. The air wash should keep it pretty clean. I clean mine every three weeks or so and even then, it's got some "smudge" on it but it's mostly clear. I would suggest you call Hearthstone and let them know that you are not getting the help you need from the dealer. They have helped me in the past. See if you can get to the technical department.

If your chimney is OK, you've fixed the stove pipe. I assume your house is not too tight? Our stove is in the cellar and when we had the house insulated, the blower door results were so good that I either had to do a direct air pipe to the stove or, what we chose, was to crack a cellar window. On those days when the pressure is really high and draft can be sluggish, I open the window a bit, usually though, it's just cracked and all is good.

You're letting the soapstone heat up and not engaging the cat too soon. Might you be damping the primary too low?

I've attached a photo of the cat guage - is your's situated like that? And a fire in full bloom. We don't run it hot like this - just up to temp and then damp the cat and adjust primary as needed. I don't stuff the firebox - it's a small stove to usually 2 -3 logs fills it and keeps it warm overnight. During the day, I'll load 2 logs at a time and they'll go for quite a few hours at 400 - 475.

Did you clean your chimney after the fire?

Don't give up. There's a solution somewhere and then the beautiful warmth of the soapstone can just chug along all winter.

Bill

 

[begreen]

NY Luke, can you post a picture of the stove setup, including the stove piping now using the 45s?

How tall is the 8" tile liner in the chimney from the thimble to the chimney cap?

 

[NYLuke]

Yes.. Sure.. Here's a few pictures.. from thimble to chimney cap I'm looking at a little over20 feet most of which is in the house except maybe the last 6ft.

After I read Bill's post I started paying more attention to when the window whited out and I think I figured that out..
I'll check my theory but it seems to happen when I open the bottom ash pan to give it a little more air on a cold start.. Even with the change in the stove pipe I still have do that on a cold start to aid it in getting going. Draft is better but it still has a hard time with a cold start without it.


I haven't had any more fires in stovepipe and I popped it off at the thimble just the other day to look at the chimney and pipe. .. No more buildup in the chimney/pipe than what I had with the old Federal. Funny thing is, when i had the thimble off the chimney was drafting hard enough that I could both feel and hear the draft and that was obviously with a fire that was completely out.

Only engaging cat now at a min of 325, almost always more like 350 and I believe that has taken care of the creosote issue.. I just have completely disregarded the cat therm and am using the one on the exterior of the stove to tell me when to engage. I get no smell at all as long as I clean the cat of fly ash every 2-3 weeks. More like 3 weeks.. If I push to 4, I found that at some point in the fourth week I can get a tiny bit of smoky smell when the cat is engaged.

The first pic is my nice clean window when I cleaned it on Thursday.

Second pic is of the externals at that time. The cat was engaged.. External stove temp was 400 and we were humming along nicely. Cat temp was in the overfire, but it has been that way since I got it..

Third pic is of the install.. and chimney and my whited out window just this evening. It flows a lot better now. But start up can still be tough on a cold chimney, As I mentioned above I can hear and feel the draft on my hand when I remove the thimble so Im not sure what I need.. Im thinking I'm going to have to install a liner this spring, but man I hate to do that and find out there is something wrong with the stove.

 

[Bill S]

Luke,
The manual does say that, although you might have a cat temp high enough to engage, if the fire is small it may not burn off and diminish (my word) the fire. Your method of using the external temp ensures a solid fire that won't die or burn too low when the cat is engaged.

I have an external chimney, couple stories high, stove in basement, yes with a stainless steel liner - sorry. The think I love about the Hearthstone is that it keeps the chimney warm even after the fire has gone down. I crack the door on start-up but not for long and then it's off and running. I wish all those things for you!

Bil

 

[begreen]

That's a good improvement with the stove pipe.

I'll check my theory but it seems to happen when I open the bottom ash pan to give it a little more air on a cold start.. Even with the change in the stove pipe I still have do that on a cold start to aid it in getting going. Draft is better but it still has a hard time with a cold start without it.

That has the potential to do some major damage to the stove base. Instead open the front door a bit, use more good dry kindling, and/or try a good firestarter like a chunk of a SuperCedar. A good source of dry kindling is a cabinetry and trim wood shop. They create a lot of scrap material, just be sure it is unfinished.

Have you tried some top down starts? That gets the flue and cat hot sooner.

 

[Bill S]

Top down fire, very interesting strategy. I like it! And I agree with our trusty moderator, my Castleton manual even says, crack the door while you are starting (not running) the fire. And yup on the kindling and even a good quality fire starter. Glad things are getting better!

Bill

 

[NYLuke]

I never thought to try a top-down fire. I've heard about them but never needed them.. I think the next time I need a cold start. I'll try one and crack the door. We'll see how that works. Before I opened the ash pan door, I did try cracking the door, but it still only smoldered and wouldn't draft. but that was before I switched out the stove pipe.

Yes, I do understand the damage it could do if left unattended. Therefore I always set a timer on Alexa or my phone to remind me to return in 10 minutes to check on it and close the door.

That's a great idea on the kindling. I've been using scrap 2 and 1x's that I have from my last remodel/addition. Most are untreated pine and bone dry. When that gives out, I'll have to see if I can source something locally.. The other thing I've done in the past is to use a chop saw to cut a face cord of kindling from branches and that would last the year. At the rate Im starting fires with this stove. I think the stuff I have in the basement ought to last another 2 years.

Looking like a really nice end of the week.. 51 on Friday..
Lake George boat ramp is now open water. Took this pic this evening when I dropped the kid off at practice. Lake was locked up when I tried to get out last weekend. Thinking Im going to dump the boat on Friday and go fishing!