Hearthstone Heritage Operation

[Highbeam]

Cold weather and my charcoal pile is impossible to manage. My dealer says that this stove does not need a damper, I am about to call the manufacturer. I run anywhere from .10 to .15 wc at the breach. Stack temps sit at 550 - 600 even with the primary air control closed completely. When reloading I can hit 800 degrees stack before the load has caught and I can throttle down to zero. The stove is producing giant mounds of charcoal that I cannot burn down with any kind of heat production. I have employed every trick on the forum to try and manage the charcoal. All I can do is shovel the bloody thing out and start fresh. I am wasting wood, and the pile of charcoal in the yard is growing. Anyone have a Heritage with too much draft? Did you solve your problem? What draft should you set for reasonable operation? I am thinking that .08 inches wc on a calm day would be a good starting point. I may have to find a damper for a double wall stove pipe and install it myself.

Hi Paul, look in your owner's manual. Hearthstone doesn't say that a damper is not needed. They give a specific draft strength that triggers the need for the damper. I recall it being 0.1 which puts you in the zone. Just like with cars, the salesmen typically don't know as much about the stoves they sell as a typical well educated enthusiast. They sell a stove adapter for double wall pipe that includes a damper, is about 6" long, and easily slips into the stove collar.

 

[regalflyer]

Yup, manual has .10 or above listed in the diagnostic section for uncontrolled or short burns. I also noticed my charcoal problems are not as bad during temperatures above single digits. Thanks, I have some facts to use now -

 

[Highbeam]

So if you do it, and I think you will, please tell us how it goes. I am especially interested in how you attach the adapter/damper into the stove collar. The only negative is that you can't sweep the chimney brush into the stove anymore as the damper becomes an obstruction.

 

[regalflyer]

I will post how things go when I can get the installation accomplished - not sure when that will be - I have an 18 foot stack of double wall pipe directly on top of the stove (cathedral ceiling living room), so the installation of a small section will be tough. For cleaning, I don't think there is much residue down near the damper, so just opening it up all the way when brushing the chimney should allow for normal clean out of the rest of the pipe.

 

[relax]

highbeam, if you sweep your stack dont you either have to either disconect a pipe at the stove to catch the crap or remove what ever top plate from inside your stove so you dont have all the crap in your stove building up..so i guess it comes down to whats easer to remove to do the sweep or am i missing something... thanks cuz im putting a damper in ... thanks zzzim

 

[Highbeam]

Yes, I need to remove the ceramic baffle which is super easy. The baffle just sort of weaves out between the pipes. So after I pop the baffle out, I shut the stove doors and the draft control, then I climb up on the roof and sweep like mad until The brush bottoms out on the firebox floor.

All of the junk ends up in the firebox. Also, a little bit of junk ends up inside the rear flule blockoff casting. No big deal, I shop vac out the entire firebox and even brush out the inside of the firebox roof to get all of the fly ash out.

With a damper, youd need to be sure that you don't bend the axle. I'm not sure if there is much junk in that bottom foot of stovepipe but it seems like it would be pretty clean so skipping that section with your brush is no big deal. Maybe you could get it from below. I hate to think of taking the stove pipe apart every time I want to clean the chimney.

 

[regalflyer]

I am reporting on the damper installation on my Heritage, the stove that has been driving me crazy this first winter of its operation. The damper was installed by drilling the outside pipe with a bit sufficient to clear the spring loaded shaft of a conventional damper. The interior 6 " diameter was drilled as normal for the damper. The damper is installed about 8" above the breach collar, about 10" from the stone tiles. If things continue as I have observed for the past few days, then I will be very very happy. This is the first week we have run this stove without having to shovel out a half bucket of tiny coals every single day. It looks like overdraft is just as bad as low draft on these stoves. My daily routine is to load only 2 or 3 splits depending on size, and let them cycle fully as long as I am home. I now run with a bit more primary air because the draft is being controlled by the damper. The damper is set in the 2:00 position to yield about .08 WC on a calm day. This is almost half of what it had run before. The coal pile stays as larger chunks instead of tiny pieces, and the pile has been so low that I don't know when I will have to shovel out the ash next. The evening routine is the same as before, load to the max, char, then reduce the primary but only to about 1/3 instead of closed all the way. In the morning, rake coals together, place 2 smallish splits on the pile even if they don't look hot, open primary wide and wait a bit - presto, new fire. No smoke out the chimney, glass is still crystal clear, burn time has been extended but is still not 8 hours (I don't have 20" wood yet though) I have more air going into the primary, and less gas flow up the chimney - terrific operation at this point. I am holding off on the celebration but it is looking really good. I hope this helps anyone with similar trouble -
Paul

 

[relax]

good for you...keep at it and please keep us all posted as ive inquired a lot about putting a damper and it seemed i got negitive response or no response at all ...thanks for the follow up...still waiting for my mansfield upgrade,wich will have a damper installed...ZZZim

 

[relax]

ps I do thank all that has added to the damper subjuct, and those of you still with info yet to come...a big thanks...ZZim

 

[edthedawg]

Paul,

Great to hear your success story. It sounds like the premonition was right - overdraft on your chimney. Can you post a pic of the damper handle sticking out of the double-wall? It sounds like you made a big hole in the outside wall to clear the handle??

Also just one FYI - check out jlow's stories w/ his Equinox - sudden shift in performance w/ the damper, but then an equally sudden bout of creosote buildup to match! Just make sure you run that flue damper wide open every day - I can't tell if you are not adjusting it ever, or (like me) going from full open at load, letting that run wide open for 15-20m, and then down to full closed during extended cruise.

jlow's creo story: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/34381/

 

[04RevX]

Glad to hear its working out for you. These are great stoves but they can be finicky.

 

[regalflyer]

Solid conclusion: Big overdraft. I am a happy stove operator now. I have not shoveled out coals since the startup after the new damper was installed. So far thats 6 days of operation without excessive charcoal trouble. There is not enough ash to shovel yet. I run the stove at .07 -.09 wc of draft. It does not like it below about .06, and chews through wood too fast above .08. The biggest difference is that running without a damper always yielded a large pile of very small charcoal particles that just choked themselves off. I could never slow down the burn rate even with the primary closed all the way. The stove still develops charcoal, but they are bigger pieces and they continue to burn. I just use them to reload in the am and keep running. I will post a photo of the damper install as soon as I get my camera back.

I read about the equinox creosote, not sure what's going on there but I will run wide open with a high stack temp at the next startup after I shovel my first load of ash -

 

[Highbeam]

How are you measuring the flue suction with the damper installed? Real time draft measurements are great for tweaking your damper settings and getting it dialed in.

Looking forward to the pics.

 

[rydaddy]

Burning Chunk. Where did you get your draft measuring device?

 

[regalflyer]

To measure the draft, I drilled a 1/4" hole just below the damper (below the lowest swing point of the plate). That point reflects what the stove will see. The draft gauge goes there, alternating with the thermometer readings. I am sorry I don't know of a decent draft gauge to recommend. The gauge I have comes from a professional set of combustion tools (Bacharach) that I bought when I decided to tune up my own appliances. The set was kind of pricey - Many technicians are notoriously poor when it comes to setting up oil, gas, or propane boilers, so I went through several heating combustion courses at BOCES to make sure I could adjust my boiler properly. I am much relieved with the way the stove performs now. Also, not chewing through wood quite so fast - at some point I will do an efficiency reading on the stove since I have the CO2 gauge as well, but I have to buy some more fluid for it.

 

[woodchopper]

- watch fire grow, then shut damper and back down primary.

IMO it is not possible to open the front door in any smoke-free manner.

Until I read this thread I had no idea using smaller sized wood was so important. I always leave my primary underneath my side door wide open and was under the impression pulling it out would choke the fire. I've got about 3' of stove pipe that runs into a masonry chimney that only runs about 8-10' to the chimney cap. On our Rutland stove pipe thermometer we run it at 500 to warm things up and then damp it down to about 275-375 depending on how full the firebox is. I regularly see smoke out in my backyard while using the stove and always thought that was normal. Guess I was wrong ? I'm going to buy a moisture meter and a decent thermometer for the front of the stove so I can learn how to run my stove more efficiently. The Heritage manual says anything put directly on the stove can cause cracks in the soapstone. Looks like you all are able to do it safely. I'm burning pretty much all Red Oak but some of it probably needs to be split again.

 

[regalflyer]

A caveat about the smaller wood, I think that was when some of my wood was suspect in terms of moisture. My Heritage is doing well on 4x4 to 4x5 splits, with an occasional larger split but some smaller. Its a matter of sizes needed to fill a small firebox. Here in CNY, many wood suppliers start cutting in January to burn in November of the same year! Thats crap, and I had some of it. Splitting it very fine allowed it to burn better. I am really starting to enjoy the Heritage, operation is getting much easier. You can't beat the nice even heat from the soapstone, and I am looking forward to using the 20" wood I cut a year ago. As far as the smoke pipe temps, I would not let them go below 300 unless you are doing a cleanout/refill.

 

[Highbeam]

- watch fire grow, then shut damper and back down primary.

IMO it is not possible to open the front door in any smoke-free manner.

Until I read this thread I had no idea using smaller sized wood was so important. I always leave my primary underneath my side door wide open and was under the impression pulling it out would choke the fire. I've got about 3' of stove pipe that runs into a masonry chimney that only runs about 8-10' to the chimney cap. On our Rutland stove pipe thermometer we run it at 500 to warm things up and then damp it down to about 275-375 depending on how full the firebox is. I regularly see smoke out in my backyard while using the stove and always thought that was normal. Guess I was wrong ? I'm going to buy a moisture meter and a decent thermometer for the front of the stove so I can learn how to run my stove more efficiently. The Heritage manual says anything put directly on the stove can cause cracks in the soapstone. Looks like you all are able to do it safely. I'm burning pretty much all Red Oak but some of it probably needs to be split again.

Wow chopper, so if I understand this correctly, you are controlling your stove with a flue damper only? Just like the old fashioned pot belly stoves? Your chimney is very short and way under the minimum requirements from Hearthstone. See your manual for the minimum length of 14' vertical. Because of this, the flue damper should be left wide open and the stove's little primary air control lever used to control the fire, there is a long section on this in the manual too. The temperature of your stove should be measured on the actual stovetop center stone with only secondary consideration given to the flue temperature.

Lastly, the manual does not warn you against putting anything on the stove. Quite the opposite, they make and sell stovetop soapstone kettles. Mine came directly from Hearthstone.

I use smallish wood as described above. Sometimes even stuff the stove full with 4 blocks of 5x5 wood. I am currently burning 14-16" long splits but the next 9 cords were all cut to 18" long to help fill the box.

 

[woodchopper]

- watch fire grow, then shut damper and back down primary.

IMO it is not possible to open the front door in any smoke-free manner.

Until I read this thread I had no idea using smaller sized wood was so important. I always leave my primary underneath my side door wide open and was under the impression pulling it out would choke the fire. I've got about 3' of stove pipe that runs into a masonry chimney that only runs about 8-10' to the chimney cap. On our Rutland stove pipe thermometer we run it at 500 to warm things up and then damp it down to about 275-375 depending on how full the firebox is. I regularly see smoke out in my backyard while using the stove and always thought that was normal. Guess I was wrong ? I'm going to buy a moisture meter and a decent thermometer for the front of the stove so I can learn how to run my stove more efficiently. The Heritage manual says anything put directly on the stove can cause cracks in the soapstone. Looks like you all are able to do it safely. I'm burning pretty much all Red Oak but some of it probably needs to be split again.

Wow chopper, so if I understand this correctly, you are controlling your stove with a flue damper only? Just like the old fashioned pot belly stoves? Your chimney is very short and way under the minimum requirements from Hearthstone. See your manual for the minimum length of 14' vertical. Because of this, the flue damper should be left wide open and the stove's little primary air control lever used to control the fire, there is a long section on this in the manual too. The temperature of your stove should be measured on the actual stovetop center stone with only secondary consideration given to the flue temperature.

Lastly, the manual does not warn you against putting anything on the stove. Quite the opposite, they make and sell stovetop soapstone kettles. Mine came directly from Hearthstone.

I use smallish wood as described above. Sometimes even stuff the stove full with 4 blocks of 5x5 wood. I am currently burning 14-16" long splits but the next 9 cords were all cut to 18" long to help fill the box.

Guess I'll have to dig out my manual and read it again. Thanks for the heads up and I'll try your suggestions this weekend while I'm up in Maine. I need to buy a decent thermometer to get an accurate temp. I thought I read in the manual that putting anything METAL on the stove was a no-no. Didn't know they sold soapstone ones.

 

[Highbeam]

The stone is soft and can be scratched easily. I believe you can even carve it with a knife. I make for darned sure that there is no grit beneath the kettle and I fill the kettle in place from a transfer vessle to avoid moving the kettle around. I am not concerend with breaking the stone as much as I am about damaging the glossy finish of this soft stone.