Nice mature response. When I started there was gasoline floating on groundwater around most gas stations, that has been remediated. Are you aware that any industrial water discharge monitoring is set by each states gov't, not on the federal level? An inconvenient truth for the pink hat knitters.
Have we reached a tipping point?
- Thread starter begreen
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Nice mature response. When I started there was gasoline floating on groundwater around most gas stations, that has been remediated. Are you aware that any industrial water discharge monitoring is set by each states gov't, not on the federal level? An inconvenient truth for the pink hat knitters.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Well perhaps you should inquire about my perspective. in 2019 I was on environmental sites from Prince Rupert BC to Miami Dade County in Florida, Maine to California, throw in Mexico City, Kauai, and Saipan as well. Yeah My perspective is substantial I am not sitting behind a keyboard dismissing perspectives that do jive with the climate change cult.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
The point being things have been better before now, just not while you or I have been alive. Your perspective is miniscule when compared to the whole earth and the time humans have been on it.
My response was to what you posted about this country being so screwed up right now, your words.
We have made a lot of progress since 1970, but now the clock is being turned backward. I have a neighbor who is a retired from the EPA a few years ago. He is still is close contact with coworkers. What is happening now is devastating morale. You can not roll back the groundwater protections without consequences and squelching science is not the way to progress.
Having a coal lobbyist and defender heading this office has not helped. He is a critic of limits on greenhouse gas emissions and the IPCC. Some notorious acts have relaxing regulations on methane emissions from oil and gas wells, attempts to lower CARP limits, opening public lands to mining at National Monuments like the Grand Staircase -Escalante and Bears Ears, 30% increase in logging on public lands, and on. It is only lawsuits that have slowed down the environmental sell out occurring. Currently there is an attempt to gut the National Environmental Policy Act. Instead of repairing bridges, building rapid transit, and implementing smart grid programs, building infrastructure means more pipelines and refineries to this administration. This is not helping the enviroment.
Having a coal lobbyist and defender heading this office has not helped. He is a critic of limits on greenhouse gas emissions and the IPCC. Some notorious acts have relaxing regulations on methane emissions from oil and gas wells, attempts to lower CARP limits, opening public lands to mining at National Monuments like the Grand Staircase -Escalante and Bears Ears, 30% increase in logging on public lands, and on. It is only lawsuits that have slowed down the environmental sell out occurring. Currently there is an attempt to gut the National Environmental Policy Act. Instead of repairing bridges, building rapid transit, and implementing smart grid programs, building infrastructure means more pipelines and refineries to this administration. This is not helping the enviroment.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
I stated before that I am as well conflicted. In the future I'd like to not own any ICE equipment or vehicles. Unfortunately I only realized how horrible things were as an adult, well entrenched in modern life. I'm doing my best to try and reduce and even go into a negative carbon footprint if possible.
How is this the gold standard in environmental protection?
Alberta, Canada's oil sands is the world's most destructive oil operation—and it's growing
Can Canada develop its climate leadership and its lucrative oil sands too?www.nationalgeographic.com
Environmental impact of Alberta tar sands 'horrible,' expert says (PHOTOS) - The World from PRX
Part Two: With government oversight in question and toxins piling up, residents say they are being poisoned and disempowered.www.pri.org
View attachment 256411
That is an open pit mine, you strip the land away, mine the resource below then replace and reclaim the land. The difference is we are required to reclaim these sites, returning them to as close to natural as possible. See attached link of reclaimed mines.
(broken link removed to https://www.canadaaction.ca/alberta_oil_sands_reclamation_photos)
I could come up with hundreds of pictures of open pit mining operations in the states as well, or dozens of examples of other contaminated areas, where little to no reclamation has been done. Spreading of radioactive brine on roads come to mind. To the commoner reading such a shock and awe article it looks aweful, but very few understand the process once the mine is exhausted and very few of these journalists care to write about it as doom and gloom sells much better than truth.
In many ways your response makes the point of my post. You will never make everyone happy, nothing will ever be good enough. So I will continue to live in the real world where almost everything runs on oil and gas, and I will continue to make a living doing it.
At the current price point of crude oil the tar sands are not in operation as are many of the camps from edmonton to calgary. This is in the soil is already contaminated with the tar sands not like pristine groundwater or soil is being contaminated by the process, if anything they are remediating hydrocarbon contamination. Just like fracking in the US the mix is being injected into a formation that has crude oil in it not drinking water.
I agree with that entire statement except the first sentence. The oil sands are still in operation and are still economic at today's oil price, new development has almost come to a stop however.
Well my rep in Calgary has laid off all but 1 of their sales staff because of conditions in the crude producing portion of Canada, so crude production is a fraction of what it was even 2 years ago. My contact list at energy firms in downtown Calgary is shrinking because of layoffs.
Not true. Layoffs have occurred and times are tough, but production has only seen a couple mild decreases due to lack of shipping capacity, which has essentially ended now. See link.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
My wife mentioned to me yesterday that Japan is buying more coal and China might even be cut off from the middle east oil supplies.
I found this interesting.
oilprice.com
I'm not sure if this is hype or not but it seems significant when someone mainstream like Jim Cramer says it.
I would add that the smarter FF companies are becoming "energy" companies by investing in renewables.
Jim Cramer: ‘’Fossil Fuels Are Done’’ | OilPrice.com
Investment guru Jim Cramer slammed oil major stocks this week, saying that institutional investors want nothing to do with oil and gas because of concerns about climate change
oilprice.com
I'm not sure if this is hype or not but it seems significant when someone mainstream like Jim Cramer says it.
I would add that the smarter FF companies are becoming "energy" companies by investing in renewables.
I disagree.
I also worked in the environmental industry for many years; cleaning up leaking tanks spills, groundwater, etc.
While we may have addressed the very visible problems like petroleum spills, underground tanks leaks, smog, etc. we have also spread widely much more insidious and less easily/traditionally recognized pollutants like endocrine disruptors, pharmaceuticals, PFAS, pesticides, GHGs, fracking fluids constituents, heat, plastics, nanomaterials, etc. Some of these pollutants are much more widely spread, potentially dangerous in very low concentrations, and very difficult to remediate.
Those that pat themselves on the back thinking that we're living without a net negative impact because rivers don't burn anymore are fooling themselves.
Frack water is injected into a formation that has crude oil in it, Frack water is not destroying ground water usable for drinking.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
I get really upset about all the C8/C6/Flourine/Teflon that is in literally everything now. So far there has yet to be a person that doesn't have it in their blood. It's nice to have cleaner air, but now the water and ground are ruined. (In) Conveniently those are the places where most animals live.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Do you think there is no leeching or movment of that water through the ground? There's a dome fill of radioactive material leeching into the pacific ocean through the bedrock of an island in the Marshal Islands. Just because something is in the ground doesn't mean it doesn't affect a bunch of other stuff. Fracking is probably one of the most disruptive ways to get oil out of the ground, please don't expect us to believe the scientists on retainer for the FF companies.
Again the frack water is going into a formation that has crude oil in it, the movement of the frack water in going to disperse under the formation the crude oil is in. Water is heavier than oil.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Yes, but water frequently moves due to capillary action. You act like that dirty water will just sit there forever. Even if the water stays put it's just a nasty toxic deposit for our future selves to discover and marvel at the stupidity and lack of foresight. Times are changing and those who work for oil and coal companies should look at retraining. People take this so personally, but this is what happens when technology improves. Many industries have been reduced by technology.
Similar threads
- Locked
