This is not giving me warm fuzzies...Hopefully my dealer will go to bat for me if necessary...He enjoys a very good reputation in the area. So far he/they have been extremely helpful. We shall see.
Harman Warranty Sucks - UPDATE - Now I am MAD!
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swalz said:
Well that's pretty much a BS answer.
I'd find the email address of the PRESIDENT of Harman and send him a link to this thread... if that's all the better warranty Harman has I'm glad I didn't buy one of their stoves... they WERE my first choice when I was looking.
This kind of story shows up here year in and year out. For the life of me I cannot understand why anybody buys a Harman pellet stove.
krooser said:
I did send an email back with a response and with a link to this thread, does anyone have the president of Harman email?
Harman is now owned by Hearth and Home...not sure if this is the correct info but here's a link to upper management that I found for this company:
http://www.linkedin.com/companies/hearth-&-home-technologies?trk=ppro_cprof&lnk=vw_cprofile
Good Luck...
http://www.linkedin.com/companies/hearth-&-home-technologies?trk=ppro_cprof&lnk=vw_cprofile
Good Luck...
BrotherBart said:
After this I will tell anyone who is looking for a stove to avoid Harman, especially around here since they have no service techs to service their units.
Here is the delima from the dealers perspective.
When someone buys a stove from another dealer, that other dealer made the profit on the sale. The dealer that did not sell the unit, gets a $55 reimbursement from Harman for labor. The dealer the did sell the unit, gets a $55 reimbursement. Why should the dealer that made zero money on the sale have to pay for the service call that is outside of the $55 reimbursement? The parts are under warranty, but the labor is only covered from the dealer that sold the unit. Harman has one of the best warranties in the biz, and this service policy holds true for every manufacture out there. If you buy your quadrafire from one dealer, and as another dealer to service it under warranty, then you are going to get charged above and beyond the $55, including trip charges, for the labor. If the dealer that is going to charge you the additional labor is close, why didn't you buy the unit from him in the first place?
When someone buys a stove from another dealer, that other dealer made the profit on the sale. The dealer that did not sell the unit, gets a $55 reimbursement from Harman for labor. The dealer the did sell the unit, gets a $55 reimbursement. Why should the dealer that made zero money on the sale have to pay for the service call that is outside of the $55 reimbursement? The parts are under warranty, but the labor is only covered from the dealer that sold the unit. Harman has one of the best warranties in the biz, and this service policy holds true for every manufacture out there. If you buy your quadrafire from one dealer, and as another dealer to service it under warranty, then you are going to get charged above and beyond the $55, including trip charges, for the labor. If the dealer that is going to charge you the additional labor is close, why didn't you buy the unit from him in the first place?
MountainStoveGuy said:
When I bought my stove this was the only dealer that would sell to me, I called other Harman dealers and was told they could not sell to me I was out of their area. So you ask why because they were not allowed to sell to me. Now if the dealer I bought from can no longer sell Harman that makes hundreds of unsatisfied customers because they are now getting the same song and dance from Harman. This is a Harman stove with a warranty that is no longer being honored. If I bought a name brand appliance from a dealer that no longer carries them or is no longer in business they would still cover their warranty and reimburse another service company to do the work, NOT HARMAN they just say the dealer charges what they want since they are independent.
Not Harman, or Lennox, or Enviro fire, or any other pellet stove manufacture in the united states. I agree that it sucks, it also sucks as a dealer to go out and fix another dealers sale, and loose money on the gig. This issue is a longstanding one in our industry and we are all trying to get manfucatures to pay more labor charges to the servicing dealers. Every single one of there responses have been that the profit in the original sale is part of the compensation if you have to go out on warranty service work. No profit on sale means lost money to the dealer that has to service the unit.
I do commiserate with the dealer's predicament. I do warranty repairs for several music stores in the area for certain brands they sell. Unfortunately, many people come in the store/s, kick the tires, take up salespeople's precious tme and then go out and buy the item from a mail order company for a few dollars less...when it breaks under warranty, rather than ship the item back to the company from where they bought it (at their expense) they drop it off at the store that I do work for because the manufacturer says that there is an authorized repair person there....it really burns the owner when this happens because he never makes back what it costs in time and paperwork to get a warrnaty repair done. UNfortunately with several of these companies, we can't tell the owner to go packing and send it back to where he bought it....we could lose our license to sell this product if it's gets back to the factory rep that we were doing this...
It is a different situation where the place you bought the stove is either no longer in business or is no longer selling that brand. In that case, I would hope that Harman would at least be able to reimburse the repair tech what he has into it for parts/labor without him taking it in the back end.
It is a different situation where the place you bought the stove is either no longer in business or is no longer selling that brand. In that case, I would hope that Harman would at least be able to reimburse the repair tech what he has into it for parts/labor without him taking it in the back end.
MountainStoveGuy said:
I have been following this thread, I have a Harman stove, and I am having a problem with my stove and my dealer will come to my house 45 miles away at a cost of $120.00 for a service visit, So my question is what is the profit on the stove? The Advance was $2799.00, I am starting my 3rd season,
timbo said:
That is what I am looking for, for Harman to step up and stand behind their product. I don't have the money to repair the stove if it is going to cost 4-6 hrs of labor, I payed extra so this would not happen. I can do most repairs myself but this is a little involved and I don't really have a good brake down to do it. I can do this type of work, I have torn apart and fixed copiers, printers, car engines and so one but always have had a break down of the parts and diagrams. Harman does not have a good break down of this so it would make it difficult to do especially since I have to give them the part back before I get the new part.
BXpellet said:
If he is the closest dealer to you, and he sold you the stove. He should not be charging you a service visit. If he is, then that is poor customer service. If you have a dealer closer to you then the one that is 45 minutes away, then that dealer is your servicing dealer and that dealer should have been the one that sold you the unit. Profit on stoves is about 30% minus shipping costs.
dobie daddy said:
Yea, but if I can help decrease their sales maybe they will start looking at their dealers and correct issues with them. I am one person but if more people speak out then they will start to get the point.
I know wishful thinking!
You can try to drive a decrease in sales, and persude a potential reader to buy a different product, but any product that that potential buyer comes across has the exact same problem as you have if the situation is the same. As matter of fact, they have a worse problem to contend with because they have a sub par 1 year electrical warranty that is the standard in the industry.
I guess I was lucky and have a good dealer (Earth Sense). I had numerous problems with my first XXV. The dealer came out at least six times and were very attentive. They finally ended up at my request, replacing my stove with a new one. Anyway, I think they told me that they will come out free of charge for the first (i think) six months, it might have been 3 months, cant remember. After that I will have to pay the $120.00 service call charge, but all parts and labor were covered for the first 2 years. This is all from memory since I am at work...........
This warrany business is the main reason I didn't buy a new stove and bought used instead. I sent a E-mail to Quadrafire and got the same type of BS response.
I would NOT be sending them e-mails and would switch to certified mail with return receipt. I think you need to go on record with them about this. Maybe if you ask one of the Harman dealers on this site, by PM, for the correct person to send the letter to they may get it for you.
Their system doesn't work for the consumer but does work for them because it shifts all costs to the dealer level and lets them hide behind this system. I would be bumping a copy of your letter to your states attorney general and anyone else you think may help to put pressure on Harman. You need to start playing a better hardball game with them. Don't get nasty and don't say things that are in a gray area. State your proiblem and state what resoultion you want. I would ask for a new stove based on the defect.
Let us know how things play out.
Bkins
I would NOT be sending them e-mails and would switch to certified mail with return receipt. I think you need to go on record with them about this. Maybe if you ask one of the Harman dealers on this site, by PM, for the correct person to send the letter to they may get it for you.
Their system doesn't work for the consumer but does work for them because it shifts all costs to the dealer level and lets them hide behind this system. I would be bumping a copy of your letter to your states attorney general and anyone else you think may help to put pressure on Harman. You need to start playing a better hardball game with them. Don't get nasty and don't say things that are in a gray area. State your proiblem and state what resoultion you want. I would ask for a new stove based on the defect.
Let us know how things play out.
Bkins
Imagine the consumer outcry if the auto industry worked like the pellet stove industry.
You buy a car in New York and the engine blows in North Carolina after 5,000 miles. Now the owner must either tow the car to new York to have the selling dealer repair it OR pay for the labor to have it fixed in North Carolina.
I have been in and out of the auto biz several times. Back in the 60's and early 70's we didn't have to repair cars that wern't sold at our dealership. But we did, most times, because it simply was good business. If our service dept. did a good job we'd have a shot at selling the customer a car next time around.
I worked in sales at a Ford store from '91 to ''97. We always told the customer that we'd still service their car even if they didn't buy from us. Times had changed and we had to service every car in order to keep our franchise. But only OUR customers got a free loaner, a discount on non-warranty service and other perks. That kept many sales from going to the "low priced leader" 40 miles away.
Me? I'd do warranty service on any stove... my original sale or not. Give the customer a discount on labor for the warranty repair. Or limit your discount labor offer to in-shop repairs not service calls. Find a way to get that customer to buy from you the next time they need a new stove or parts/service.
A short term loss of $$$ may turn into a long term gain ie: customer.
Remember the slogan... If we don't take care of the customer somebody else will.
You buy a car in New York and the engine blows in North Carolina after 5,000 miles. Now the owner must either tow the car to new York to have the selling dealer repair it OR pay for the labor to have it fixed in North Carolina.
I have been in and out of the auto biz several times. Back in the 60's and early 70's we didn't have to repair cars that wern't sold at our dealership. But we did, most times, because it simply was good business. If our service dept. did a good job we'd have a shot at selling the customer a car next time around.
I worked in sales at a Ford store from '91 to ''97. We always told the customer that we'd still service their car even if they didn't buy from us. Times had changed and we had to service every car in order to keep our franchise. But only OUR customers got a free loaner, a discount on non-warranty service and other perks. That kept many sales from going to the "low priced leader" 40 miles away.
Me? I'd do warranty service on any stove... my original sale or not. Give the customer a discount on labor for the warranty repair. Or limit your discount labor offer to in-shop repairs not service calls. Find a way to get that customer to buy from you the next time they need a new stove or parts/service.
A short term loss of $$$ may turn into a long term gain ie: customer.
Remember the slogan... If we don't take care of the customer somebody else will.
Warranty is only as good as the dealer you buy from. True, manufacturers dont give us retailers squat for fixing a stove. Regency gives us $30 per call. You send a man out there once to diagnose and once to fix, you lose money. But I did make money selling the stove. I would NEVER tell one of my customers that even though their stove is under warranty that they would have to pay to get it fixed (Unless it's a pellet stove that was never cleaned. Then we fix it, clean it and bill them for the cleaning)
There's some good retailers out there who know the way to stay in business is thru excellent customer service. We as an industry want customers to shop locally, support the small business man. How can we convince customer to do this if they feel their local guy is not going to take care of them? If retailers start to offer lousy service, why would a customer feel like spending more money there?
I don't like hearing this kind of thing
There's some good retailers out there who know the way to stay in business is thru excellent customer service. We as an industry want customers to shop locally, support the small business man. How can we convince customer to do this if they feel their local guy is not going to take care of them? If retailers start to offer lousy service, why would a customer feel like spending more money there?
I don't like hearing this kind of thing
what it boils down to is that all manufactures need to revamp there warranty policies to help the dealer and consumer, and not themselves. As of now, companies that go out of business are free and clear of any responsibility, and manufactures do not compensate there good dealers to take care of the customers that did business with the bad dealers. Even the dealers that do there own warranty work for jobs that they sell, always loose with the current system. If any of you readers own a business, you know it costs more then $55 to get the truck out of the driveway, much less to cover a complete warranty call. The warranty compensation is a joke. All the manufactures hold hands and enforce the same policy. Manufactures should compensate every dealer real time and labor cost, but what they do instead is give the dealer this piss ant $50 check and say have a nice day. How in a bad economy, when business is down 30%, can a dealer send out a service crew out for a half a day and loose $500 worth of expenses when they did not make any money in the first place? The rule of thumb is that the first service call takes most of your profit, the second is a wash. This is why dealers have to be particular about what stoves they carry. If you get a bad batch of stoves it can kill your business and the stove shop and consumer are the ones left holding the bill, not the manufacture.
One problem I see with Harman dealers now is they don't have to have a service department and service the stoves they sell. When I bought my stove the shop that sold the stove was under agreement or contract that they would service and do the warranty work. How do the one's that do not have a service department get around this? If the dealer who is 48 miles away will do the work under warranty if I get it to him I would find a way to get it to him, it would be better then paying for 6 hrs of labor. heck I would pay him for the travel time if it was at a reasonable cost.
I wonder how many stoves the average dealer sells, that didn't need warranty repairs at all. I bet a lot would make for good profits.
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