Harman PF100 Igniter

[Ejectr]

if you have the 13 fin igniter they were known for wearing out prematurely, hopefully the new 15 fin igniter will last a lot longer for you. The only reasons i can think of that the dealer doesn't want to test your igniter and send it back is one they don't know how to test them (which would be bad but not beyond belief for some dealers) and second they don't want to have to pay for the shipping. I dont know for a fact but i believe dealer pays return shipping on warranty items, i know my office guy saves up a bunch of warranty items before sending them back as one large lump. although i could be wrong on the shipping. 75% of items returned for warranty to HHT (Harman,quad,heatilator,etc) are STILL GOOD. so now they are offering trainings to dealers to try to get better techs that don't just throw parts at the stove. so the whole not getting paid for warranty is not true at all. One day they will implement warranty where you don't get paid unless justified but it hasn't happened yet.
As far as the running the stove without the igniter that should not hurt a thing, i would put the bracket back in so as to close off the holes in the front of the pot for the screws that hold the igniter bracket, but other than that you can run the stove with out the igniter itself in the bracket and not hurt anything.

I guess there could be any number of reasons why the dealer is doing things the way he is, but as I said, I have no choice.

Thanks for the info on running without an igniter in place. That is exactly what I'll do. What I was going to do before this aforementioned scenario came about was just get the replacement igniter and put it in at the end of the heating season when I do my off season cleaning. I can still do that, but now having to take it out to send to them, I will be doing everything twice.

 

[wil lanfear]

The igniters used with the pressure ignition can also be measured for resistance using a multimeter. Harman igniters with pressure ignition are 450 watts, using the ohm's law calculator below plugging in 120 volts, 450 watts, these would show 32 ohms.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/ohmslaw2.html

 

[Ejectr]

I got the igniter out. Is there a trick to get those wire connectors seperated? I'm pulling both sides as hard as I can and they aren't budging. I don't want to put pliers on them and crush them.

 

[dhall28]

Yea they can be very stubborn sometimes. The best I have found is to just rock it back and forth while pulling them apart. I put more effort into rocking them back and forth than the actual effort to pulling them apart. I usually hold one by hand and then grab the crimped area with needle nose or extremely tiny linesman pliers.

 

[Ejectr]

Yea they can be very stubborn sometimes. The best I have found is to just rock it back and forth while pulling them apart. I put more effort into rocking them back and forth than the actual effort to pulling them apart. I usually hold one by hand and then grab the crimped area with needle nose or extremely tiny linesman pliers.

Finally got it. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Ejectr]

Batting 1.000 with this pellet furnace. Two years...two failures. Last year it was the hopper low level sensor. No big deal other than a constant flashing red light on the thermostat. This year it's the igniter.

So far the oil burner leads 2 - 0. At least I'm still under warrantee.

 

[Ejectr]

The Saga continues. I took out the igniter and pulled the slack in the yellow and blue wires all the way back to the plastic insert that is in the hole they go through at the bottom of the feed mechanism weldment. I tied them back figuring they wouldn't touch anything. Then I figured I'd push one slightly in so they wouldn't touch each other. Was leary about putting electrical tape on the ends because I don't know how much heat they experience way back there from the burn pot. I also figured the lite switch was in manual lite so the wires wouldn't be powered.

Anyway....I set everything to start the stove in manual with starter jell and I couldn't get it to keep running. I'd turn the power on using the breaker on the lower power box and the combustion motor light would come on for a second and then shut off leaving me only the power light on...nothing else. I'd also get a quick flash of the status light before it went out. Tried several times and same result. I tried adjusting the feedrate and temp knobs to something diiferent and same result. It would not run in the service position with the igniter switch on manual.

I decided to pull the igniter wires out the back so I pulled out the plastic feed through, blocked the hole with a little fiberglass wool, taped over the wires and tied them back. Should have done that the first time but I didn't know that feed through came out of the hole so easily. Tried it again in service and same thing.

What I had to do to get it going was to set it up like I was in Auto. Auto operation and auto lite. I got all the lights I was supposed to then. Power...status...combustion motor...even the igniter light only ther was no igniter. I started the jell and let it think it was starting with the igniter. The igniter light went out when the fire was established and it is running normal. I switched the auto lite switch over to manual and it's still running OK.

It seems the service mode doesn't like the fact the igniter is not connected. It started in manual when the bad one was still in there. I don't know why. Manual start doesn't even use it. Any ideas??????

 

[Ejectr]

No ideas???

 

[Lousyweather]

Ive got LOTS if ideas.....but, most likely due to the firebox size of your stove, you arent getting the ESP warm enough to maintain a burn.......stick the unit in ttest mode a few times (put in test mode, wait a minute, take it out and put it back in again)...get a nice big fire......then make sure the stove is set in MANUAL mode as well.....(should do this first)...

 

[Ejectr]

Ive got LOTS if ideas.....but, most likely due to the firebox size of your stove, you arent getting the ESP warm enough to maintain a burn.......stick the unit in ttest mode a few times (put in test mode, wait a minute, take it out and put it back in again)...get a nice big fire......then make sure the stove is set in MANUAL mode as well.....(should do this first)...

According to the manual, the combustion blower should stay running in manual with no fire and the status light should be on. When I turned on the power, I got a combustion blower light for a second and I could hear the blower come on for that 1 second. I also got a brief flsh of the status light then ultimately was left with just the power light.

I followed the directions in the manual for a manual start with all knobs and control where they should be, filled the burn pot with pellets and applied the starting gel. Then turned on the power. That process worked with the combustion blower staying running before I pulled out the igniter. Now it doesn't.

Also, I had been running in automatic with teh igniter switch in manual....status light on. I decided to switch it to automatic so I could turn the thermostat down and have it shut off so I could take out the igniter. Whne I switched to automatic, the status light went out. I thought that rather strange and that was before I did anything to the igniter.

 

[mcmaxx]

my pf100 does this also,and my igniter is still in the furnace. I sometimes turn the control knob to off for a moment then to service and the combustion blower will stay running. As for running in auto with the igniter switch in manual the status light will stay on and the combustion blower will run until the stove goes cold by running out of pellets it won't shut down, when you switched the igniter switch to auto the thermostat was probably set below room temp. and it began shut down as it should, that is why the status light went out.

 

[Ejectr]

I'm pretty sure I tried going to off and then to service and it still ran for a second and quit, but I can't be sure of that. Next time I shut it down to replace the igniter, I will give that a try. Thanks.

Yes, I know about the manual/auto ignite differences. What you mentioned could possibly be why the status light went out when I switched from manual to auto lite. The manual makes it sound like the status light should be on all the time regardless. I have to run in manual lite while the igniter is out. If the furnace goes out, I'll have to restart it with gel again.

I wish Harman would spend as much time on theory of operation in their manuals as they do on installation specs. Their theory of operation amounts to put pellets in it and turn it on. The manual sucks for theory of operation information.

 

[Delta-T]

is the thermostat set high enough to tell the unit it should run?

 

[Ejectr]

The thermostat shouldn't come into play running in manual, but yes it was after I switched to auto. The furnace had been off for several hours to cool down so I could take out the igniter.

 

[Delta-T]

combustion blower does same in "service" as in "automatic"? comes on for 1 second then stops, no blinking lights?

 

[Ejectr]

combustion blower does same in "service" as in "automatic"? comes on for 1 second then stops, no blinking lights?

No...just service. I have it running flawlessly in automatic right now. If I switch to manual right now....it is OK. When I tried to start a fire manually, it would not run in service. Combustion blower came on for a second and shut off....status light blinked and went out...no flashing lights....The only light lit was the power light.

 

[dhall28]

Anyway....I set everything to start the stove in manual with starter jell and I couldn't get it to keep running. I'd turn the power on using the breaker on the lower power box and the combustion motor light would come on for a second and then shut off leaving me only the power light on...nothing else. I'd also get a quick flash of the status light before it went out. Tried several times and same result. I tried adjusting the feedrate and temp knobs to something diiferent and same result. It would not run in the service position with the igniter switch on manual.

If you are using the power switch and not the "auto/off/service" knob then when you have service preselected and then flip the power switch on the combustion blower comes on right away, but then the control board sees the stove is cool and turns it off and doesn't continue to run. The stove thinks it just had a very long power outage after running and wont try to light. If the power is off turn it to the off position, turn power on, and then turn the knob to service position, at that point the status light should come on and the combustion blower continue to run. If that doesn't work well then something else is wrong or the control board is acting up.

 

[Ejectr]

If you are using the power switch and not the "auto/off/service" knob then when you have service preselected and then flip the power switch on the combustion blower comes on right away, but then the control board sees the stove is cool and turns it off and doesn't continue to run. The stove thinks it just had a very long power outage after running and wont try to light. If the power is off turn it to the off position, turn power on, and then turn the knob to service position, at that point the status light should come on and the combustion blower continue to run. If that doesn't work well then something else is wrong or the control board is acting up.

Good information. Sounds like it may have been the problem because using the power switch to turn it on and pre selecting service was exactly what I was doing. I will try that the next time I shut it off to replace the igniter that my dealer got from Harman yesterday and I have to wait for until they send the old one to Harman to be "tested". A complete COS.

 

[Ejectr]

OK folks.....I sent the bad igniter which I tested with a meter to confirm it was bad to the dealer I am trying to get my warrantee replacement from. They sent me an email on Monday saying they had received my replacement from Harman and asked me how I wanted to proceed. I told them as I had said, I would return the bad one to them to return to Harman.

I contacted the dealer today to make sure mine had made it to them OK and they said yes and had sent it to Harman. It appears they are not going to send me the replacement Harman sent them for me until Harman receives and tests my bad one.

Now isn't this just a little bit ridiculous?

 

[Lousyweather]

OK folks.....I sent the bad igniter which I tested with a meter to confirm it was bad to the dealer I am trying to get my warrantee replacement from. They sent me an email on Monday saying they had received my replacement from Harman and asked me how I wanted to proceed. I told them as I had said, I would return the bad one to them to return to Harman.

I contacted the dealer today to make sure mine had made it to them OK and they said yes and had sent it to Harman. It appears they are not going to send me the replacement Harman sent them for me until Harman receives and tests my bad one.

Now isn't this just a little bit ridiculous?

yup......curious who the dealer is......seems like alot of hoops to jump through to me

 

[Ejectr]

I've debated whether or not to say who the dealer is but I think I'll wait until my igniter is in my hand before I decide whether or not to say. I certainly appreciate the help getting the part, but I certainly don't appreciate the run around.

Once this is over, I will be calling Harman and registering my thoughts.

 

[dhall28]

They sent me an email on Monday saying they had received my replacement from Harman

Did they have to order in an igniter? did they not have one in stock already?

 

[Ejectr]

They had igniters in stock but told me they had to put in a claim with Harman to get the warrantee replacement for me. They wanted me to buy one off their shelf and then credit me back the cost once Harman said mine was bad. I said no thanks. So they are waiting until Harman tells them mine is bad so they know that Harman won't back charge them for my warrantee replacement that Harman sent them.

Can you imagine a car dealer doing warrantee business like that. "I'm sorry sir, but you'll have to pull out your transmission so we can send it to Ford to test before we can give you your warrantee replacement". It's idiotic!

 

[dhall28]

right, i remember that part, i was just confused about the "part being received from harman," a dealership not having igniters is like a bar not having any beer.

 

[Ejectr]

Finally got the replacement igniter in my hand. Was in today's mail. That only took 3 weeks. What a freaking debacle!