Harman 52i not working properly--low heat, runs dirty, excess ash

[alternativeheat]

Sounds like a combination of poor installation, poor insulation. bad pellets and not fully undestanding how the stove operates. Don't blame the stove. My insert works fine and so, apparently, did yours. It can do so again.

Tell us more about your install. Did you do it or the dealer? Do you have an OAK? What size us your vent piping? How is it run? What size room are you trying to heat? The airflow from the stove is not a blowtorch and never will be BTW. I go a month and more between cleanings and weeks between ash pan dumps burning a bag plus a day.

Sorry, i was typing as you posted

 

[F4jock]

Sorry, i was typing as you posted

No problem. We're thinking alike.

 

[unbidden]

The pellets are 100% hardwood, premium grade, and have the pellet fuel institute seal on them.

This means absolutely nothing. Everything I've burned have the PFI symbol; some are good and some are not. The Pellet litmus test is to try a couple bags of different brands. Try some that have not been stored outdoors.

 

[bags]

Your stove WILL throw plenty of heat IF it is eating good pellets and burning properly. Let these guys with successful 52i's help you out. Give them the details they ask for so they can get an understanding of your situation and offer solutions to correct what needs to be and get you heating.

"The dealer said." Forget that for starters. Some dealers are just that, dealers. Same goes for the installers. They might not know what they are talking about. Have you considered that? I have a very knowledgeable and top notch dealer. I don't use him. I come HERE. There are many here that can and will be better suited to help you FIX your issues. Just answer what they ask and do what they recommend. Pretty simple.

Another point I would like to make is the BS line the "installer / dealer" said "it is normal" for the ash pan to fill up after ONE bag of pellets. This is complete and utter BULLSH!T! There is nothing "normal" about that whatsoever. Nothing!

It has been stated here that it can happen IF you are burning crappy pellets. Crappy pellets are not "NORMAL." Did you buy those heavily ash producing non heat throwing pellets from the same dealer? If you did then he possibly could be selling you a bag of goods there also. You can also have a bad batch of pellets so I do not care what the dealer and installer are saying.

First and foremost listen to and do as asked from the VERY knowledgeable folks here. Second, go buy a couple of bags of some other pellets that have good reviews here and try them out. IF it is not the pellets then we can explore other possibilities.

F4 and Alternative are getting you steered in the correct direction. Forget about your dealer and installer for a moment. I also question many issues there with some of the idiotic statements you say they have made. The free help here is has no other motives like making money and slinging BS. We would like to see you get warm heat out of YOUR Harman and enjoy it also. They are excellent big heat producing machines and when you say "luke warm small electric heater" we know that is not how these stoves heat so the goal is to FIX what whoever F'ed up.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Let's see what the complete installation looks like.

There was a case on here involving a 52i not long ago that suposedly needed a nose, heart, double lung and brain transplant.

 

[F4jock]

Let's see what the complete installation looks like.

There was a case on here involving a 52i not long ago that suposedly needed a nose, heart, double lung and brain transplant.

Much the exception tho. Until we clear the installation have to assume stove is OK. Oh, and in that case Harman paid for the fix too.

 

[EricHahn]

I am aware that we are receiving BS from our dealer, Arnold Stove Works, in Arnold MO. Even the president of the company said, "Sounds about right." when we told him about the excessive ash. We asked why his salesman and manual, not to mention the entire internet, says 1 cup from a bag and he again implied we are expecting too much.

I installed it myself with 3" double wall PL rated pipe. One 90 degree elbow, total pipe length is 3.5 feet.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I am aware that we are receiving BS from our dealer, Arnold Stove Works, in Arnold MO. Even the president of the company said, "Sounds about right." when we told him about the excessive ash. We asked why his salesman and manual, not to mention the entire internet, says 1 cup from a bag and he again implied we are expecting too much.

I installed it myself with 3" double wall PL rated pipe. One 90 degree elbow, total pipe length is 3.5 feet.

Red flags have already gone off.

Is that 90 degrees up and three feet into something like an existing chimney? .

If so we need the the height of the chimney above the end of that 3 feet and the size of the chimney flue.

 

[EricHahn]

F4, I am not expecting blow torch heat but I do expect heat and not lukewarm air. After the repair guy came out last week, it started pumping out heat and we were astonished. Within an hour, the big and drafty room was about 76 which floored us. We were beginning to think these things are just overrated. I can't tell you how relieved we were to have this thing work. But it was short lived. That was last Friday and by Sunday it was struggling again.

I will get different pellets and try them this weekend.

 

[EricHahn]

It is an insert but the chimney was torn down before the install. So the air intake and vent pipe exit the rear of the stove vertically for 15" then 90 degree elbow and it runs horizontally for 24".
It vents directly outside the house, so while it is technically a fireplace insert, we are not using the chimney. I did build a doghouse looking structure to enclose the remainder of the chimney and house the vent pipe. I can take a picture if that would help.

 

[F4jock]

OK.

I assume no OAK?

First I'd call Harman direct and complain about the dealer. Ask if they have another in the area who can properly evaluate the stove and the install. As Smokey pointed out there was one extreme instance of a Harman needing a major rework but Harman paid for that fix.

You obviously need a draft test. I'd never have gone with a 3" vent but you do have a short run so it may work. My insert keeps the living spaces at 69 to 70f when the temp is way minus. Latest at -11 so yours can and will do better. Also, can you get a few bags of a different brand of pellets? As was said before, no matter what the bag says there are big quality differences. Try for a hardwood like Lignetics or a softee like Blazers. Clean your stove. Take down the vent pipe and clean it as well. Be sure you have no obstructions, then try the new pellets. If you need pellet advice we can help but Home Depot and Tractor Supply can have decent ones.

Now, what size is the room the stove is in?

Can you borrow an IR / laser heat sensor?

Let's see that picture of the doghouse etc.

 

[alternativeheat]

No problem. We're thinking alike.

Wait a minute, I've only ever flown in and had slight control of an At6. You flew F4's, like WOW !

It is an insert but the chimney was torn down before the install. So the air intake and vent pipe exit the rear of the stove vertically for 15" then 90 degree elbow and it runs horizontally for 24".
It vents directly outside the house, so while it is technically a fireplace insert, we are not using the chimney. I did build a doghouse looking structure to enclose the remainder of the chimney and house the vent pipe. I can take a picture if that would help.

Absolutely take the pictures. So are you telling us you are running 3' with a 90 of total vent? Or an EVL of over 17' ?

 

[EricHahn]

More info: our chimney was old and pulling our house down on that side, causing cracks in the foundation and basement floor popping up, cracks in the plaster ceilings, etc.
the chimney removal had nothing to do with the pellet install; we just thought it was a good time to buy the stove and hook it up since the house was exposed there anyway, for a time.

 

[F4jock]

More info: our chimney was old and pulling our house down on that side, causing cracks in the foundation and basement floor popping up, cracks in the plaster ceilings, etc.
the chimney removal had nothing to do with the pellet install; we just thought it was a good time to buy the stove and hook it up since the house was exposed there anyway, for a time.

If you got the room to 76 once it can be done again. Patience Grasshopper!

EDIT: And consider going to a 4" vent.

 

[EricHahn]

Yes, total vent is 3.5 feet.

 

[F4jock]

Yes, total vent is 3.5 feet.

But EVL is 17 feet.

How did you determine what to use for a vent? Did you or someone calculate it or did you hipshoot?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Yes, total vent is 3.5 feet.

That is not how it is measured for venting considerations.

 

[Delta-T]

....did you try turning it to 7 to see if it would blow out hot air?

 

[alternativeheat]

Yes, total vent is 3.5 feet.

Eric, I own a P61 vented up 26ft with 4" vent. But looked at the 52i first and Harman and the dealer both suggested 4" in a horizontal run after a 90. Lets put it this way preferred.

....did you try turning it to 7 to see if it would blow out hot air?

He did, we are moving past that stage.

 

[EricHahn]

I don't know what EVL means, but the 3.5 feet is how long the total pipe is. As far as how did I determine what to do, I used the 3" vent that Harman sent with the stove, and the other supplies were ordered through the salesman. I followed the directions and the illustration on the manual, as far as what to do. My setup looks almost identical to the one in the manual, so I was hoping it would do the job.

 

[F4jock]

Eric, I own a P61 vented up 26ft with 4" vent. But looked at the 52i first and Harman and the dealer both suggested 4" in a horizontal run after a 90. i suspect

He did, we are moving past that stage.

Cheap enough to go to all 4".

 

[F4jock]

I don't know what EVL means, but the 3.5 feet is how long the total pipe is. As far as how did I determine what to do, I used the 3" vent that Harman sent with the stove, and the other supplies were ordered through the salesman. I followed the directions and the illustration on the manual, as far as what to do. My setup looks almost identical to the one in the manual, so I was hoping it would do the job.

Equivalent Vertical Length. Should be below 15. You have 17.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You have several Harman stove owners and a former Harman stove dealership service/sales/gopher/whatever guy. I'm bowing out as at least two of you are preaching from the holy book. Don't forget that the air intake needs paying attention too as well.

 

[F4jock]

You have several Harman stove owners and a former Harman stove dealership service/sales/gopher/whatever guy. I'm bowing out as at least two of you are preaching from the holy book. Don't forget that the air intake needs paying attention too as well.

Stick with us Smokey. Can use all the help we can get!

 

[alternativeheat]

Stick with us Smokey. Can use all the help we can get!

Yes because we may need another lecture on safety before this is done and you got that down pat !!