Great Tip for Draft Problems

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NordicSplitter

Minister of Fire
May 22, 2011
541
Western,NY
Just wanted to thank everyone for the tip concerning draft problems when starting a fire. Ever since I have been using a small blower in front of the stove for about 5 minutes or so, along with cracking open the ash pan door.....draft problems are gone. Had about 5 fires using this tip and it sure works great. I'm sure the colder it gets outside the easier and easier thing will become. Thanks again
 
How are you using the blower? I didn't follow that part. Careful with the ash pan door, easy to forget and you can get a forge like fire going in no time! Yes, this time of year can be a challenge for draft - just not cold enough for a nice, forceful draft. A small, hot fire is your friend. Yes, as temps drop you'll see a big difference in draft - much, much better. Enjoy! Cheers!
 
I just take a small blower and place it at a 45 degree angle about 3-4ft away from the door. Let it go for about 5 min or so and it works great. Your right about the ash pan door. Can create a mini-blast furnace if you want.. Lol
 
The manual clearly states do not use the ashpan door for starting a fire. This is for a good reason. By opening up the ash pan door you are creating forge like conditions that can rapidly overheat the grate. Because the cast iron is expanding rapidly due to the heat differential it can crack.

Every year we see posts of someone with a big new Jotul that has a cracked bottom grate or worse, a cracked base. Jotul will not cover this under warranty. It is an expensive repair. Please do not recommend this. It is not a great tip.
 
Good point begreen. I have seen my share of these over the years as well. Please be careful with that practice. There is a product on the market now called the draw collar that would also solve your draft issues......just a thought.
 
Nicely warned BeGreen....

I never tried it (but presume it would help initial draft this time of the year) and would rather resort to fixing my draft then watching the FD putting out a fire and telling myself "yup, shoulda listened to BeGreen".

Andrew
 
It probably is not all that dangerous unless you space it out. But it sure is painful to see folks here lamenting those cracks in a new stove. Improving draft is a much better and permanent solution. But if that is not an option, just leave the door ajar for the first 5 minutes of the fire starting. This works well and is much better for the stove. Having lots of good, dry kindling on hand also helps. I like to use cabinetry and unfinished flooring scraps. And for real easy starting, get some Super Cedars!
 
Worse yet to read of someone opening the ash door and then going to take a shower or going to the corner grocery..... Ash or firebox door open...STAY IN THE ROOM UNTIL IT IS CLOSED!
 
Ah come on Dennis, we volunteer firefighters need to stay in practice: job security.
Ed
 
I for one can speak from experience: one time I lit the fire. I left my bypass open as well as the door open about 1/4 an inch. I went upstairs and got sidetracked....I could hear some roaring! I don't think I touched one of the 12 stairs as I came flying down the stairs. The inside of my double wall stove pipe had begun to go from black to red.

Needless to say I almost had a heart attack.

Andrew
 
Cast iron is an alloy of iron and carbon, and is popular because of its low cost and ability to make complex structures. The carbon content in cast iron is 3% to 4.5% by weight. Silicon and small amounts of Manganese, Sulfur, and Phosphorus are also present in it. The products of cast iron exhibit reasonable resistance against corrosion. The cast iron is neither malleable nor ductile, and it cannot be hardened like steel. It melts at about 2100 ºF, and has either a crystalline or a granular fracture. The mechanical properties of cast iron are very much dependent on the morphology of its carbon content. Carbon is present in the form of plates in gray cast iron, whereas, it is incorporated in compound Fe3C (cementite) in white cast iron. Nodular cast iron, which show better tensile strength and strain than gray cast iron, carry carbon in the form of sphere shaped graphite particles. Following are some of the properties of cast iron.

Tensile Strength
Different varieties of cast iron are used in the construction of machines and structures. Cast iron having a tensile strength of 5 tons per square inch, or less, is of no value for the purpose where strength is required. This type may however be used for balance weights, foundation blocks, or for purposes where weight alone is of consequence. Some varieties of cast iron show a tensile strength as high as 19 tons per square inch, but on an average, the strength is 7 tons per square inch. Addition of vanadium can increase the strength of cast iron.

High Compressive Strength
Compressive strength is defined as the ability of a material to withstand forces which attempt to squeeze or compress it. Cast iron shows high compressive strength, which makes it desirable for use in columns and posts of buildings. The compressive strength of gray cast iron can be almost as high as that of some mild steels.

Low Melting Point
The melting temperature of cast iron ranges from 1140 ºC to 1200 ºC. Nowadays, many advanced melting, alloying and casting methods are being used, which can bring the new irons formed, in competition with steel.

Resistance to Deformation
Cast iron structures show resistance to deformation and provide a rigid frame. However, if one part of the casting after the iron is poured into the molds, is very thin, and another very thick, the problem of the structure breakdown becomes prominent. The reason for this is when the thin part cools first and contracts, the thick part which cools down afterward causes stress in the thin part, offering sufficient force to break it.

Resistance to Oxidation
Rust is formed by the reaction of iron and oxygen, in the presence of water or air moisture. It leads to the corrosion of iron and its alloys, and any iron mass in presence of water and oxygen, can eventually convert into rust and later disintegrate. As cast iron offers resistance to oxidations, it provides a solution to the problem of rust.

Only if you run yours cast iron stove like a blast furnace will you enter the danger zone of destroying it. Opening the ash pan door a crack for a few short minutes is really no big deal. When doing this follow these 2 simple rules
1. Don't leave the stove.
2. Referr to first rule. ;-P
 
NordicSplitter you are right, but it's ignoring the rules by texting while driving, not wearing seatbelts, ignoring the changing traffic light, no working smoke detectors and on and on that eventually bites you. And were all guilty because of the "it won't happen to me syndrome". Sometimes we and or others pay the price. Be safe.
Ed
 
NordicSplitter said:
Just wanted to thank everyone for the tip concerning draft problems when starting a fire. Ever since I have been using a small blower in front of the stove for about 5 minutes or so, along with cracking open the ash pan door.....draft problems are gone. Had about 5 fires using this tip and it sure works great. I'm sure the colder it gets outside the easier and easier thing will become. Thanks again
What is your chimney specs, type, how high, any elbows?
 
nordic splitter, i have to tell you the start up is the worst time to use this method. the reason why..... the cast is cold. once you open the ash pan door you create a focused rapid heat increase. cast likes to expand when heated. by putting that much heat in one focused location and the other parts if the stove still generally cool the cast has no way to expand. hence the cracking of the base plate. dont take my word for it though...... look through some of the threads. when it happen jotul knows its the only way to break that part. so they wont offer any freebies for the repair. the part is generally affordable its the labor that adds up on a base plate replacement. so again please be safe and careful with that practice. none of us want an unhappy stove user.
 
NordicSplitter said:
Cast iron is an alloy of iron and carbon, and is popular because of its low cost and ability to make complex structures. The carbon content in cast iron is 3% to 4.5% by weight. Silicon and small amounts of Manganese, Sulfur, and Phosphorus are also present in it. The products of cast iron exhibit reasonable resistance against corrosion. The cast iron is neither malleable nor ductile, and it cannot be hardened like steel. It melts at about 2100 ºF, and has either a crystalline or a granular fracture. The mechanical properties of cast iron are very much dependent on the morphology of its carbon content. Carbon is present in the form of plates in gray cast iron, whereas, it is incorporated in compound Fe3C (cementite) in white cast iron. Nodular cast iron, which show better tensile strength and strain than gray cast iron, carry carbon in the form of sphere shaped graphite particles. Following are some of the properties of cast iron.

Tensile Strength
Different varieties of cast iron are used in the construction of machines and structures. Cast iron having a tensile strength of 5 tons per square inch, or less, is of no value for the purpose where strength is required. This type may however be used for balance weights, foundation blocks, or for purposes where weight alone is of consequence. Some varieties of cast iron show a tensile strength as high as 19 tons per square inch, but on an average, the strength is 7 tons per square inch. Addition of vanadium can increase the strength of cast iron.

High Compressive Strength
Compressive strength is defined as the ability of a material to withstand forces which attempt to squeeze or compress it. Cast iron shows high compressive strength, which makes it desirable for use in columns and posts of buildings. The compressive strength of gray cast iron can be almost as high as that of some mild steels.

Low Melting Point
The melting temperature of cast iron ranges from 1140 ºC to 1200 ºC. Nowadays, many advanced melting, alloying and casting methods are being used, which can bring the new irons formed, in competition with steel.

Resistance to Deformation
Cast iron structures show resistance to deformation and provide a rigid frame. However, if one part of the casting after the iron is poured into the molds, is very thin, and another very thick, the problem of the structure breakdown becomes prominent. The reason for this is when the thin part cools first and contracts, the thick part which cools down afterward causes stress in the thin part, offering sufficient force to break it.

Resistance to Oxidation
Rust is formed by the reaction of iron and oxygen, in the presence of water or air moisture. It leads to the corrosion of iron and its alloys, and any iron mass in presence of water and oxygen, can eventually convert into rust and later disintegrate. As cast iron offers resistance to oxidations, it provides a solution to the problem of rust.

Only if you run yours cast iron stove like a blast furnace will you enter the danger zone of destroying it. Opening the ash pan door a crack for a few short minutes is really no big deal. When doing this follow these 2 simple rules
1. Don't leave the stove.
2. Referr to first rule. ;-P


The details leave out the flue and chimney. Be sure you always remember 3 numbers. Those are 9-1-1
 
It's this simple,you can do it and you know darned well as with all of us,things become habit and the more you do it the more you will become a little more comfortable with it and maybe go to the fridge or bathroom or anything along those lines (sidetracked).I'd sooner bet my life it will be forgotten,there's too much at risk.I opened mine the other day to see what the draft was.Wow!!! If that wouldn't crack cast what would? The door open is careless and if left sparks can go anywhere.If a choice i'd go with the door ajar.I noticed if i opened my door a crack it drew more air than wide open.THIS WAS EXPERIMENTING.My draft sucks too.lol Looking for a solution, it goes well enough to start a fire.We'll see what happens.It's your choice and hope all goes well.Stay safe.
 
I heard this put well about flying: if you exceed the weight-and-balance specs on your plane, you have just converted your plane into an experimental aircraft. I suppose the same could be said about stoves.

I appreciate the point about the greater stress on the stove when the rest of it is cold. Good thread to make us think about a common temptation to those of us in the "Can I crack the ashpan drawer until I have to wear glasses?" contingent.
 
Appreciate the concern in this matter guys. Seeing this is my first season with burning, your thoughts, concerns and suggestions won't fall on deaf ears. We are all at different stages in our burning experience and to those with more than me..Thanks
 
nordic-

Seeing as how we are both breaking in our F600s simultaneously, I thought i would chime in a bit. I have been burning a long time (all my life) and I am still learning from everyone here- breaking some old habits-and forming some new ones.

1- That is one beautiful stove and one great heater
2- The manual specifically states that we should not be burning with the ash door open. Although I do not expect any problems with the stove, I also do not want to negate any warranty over the next 5 years
3- Call me a rules guy, I guess
4- I do not like extra work, and having to make a repair to the grate when the work could be avoided is something I would like to avoid.

I have been leaving the side door open to help with the draft. Also, opening a window in the room where the stove is located will help with the draft issue. Anyhow, have a great night and burning season.
 
So, our local store posted a link to this, it's called a "draw collar" and it's supposed to stop backdrafts. I have no experience with it, but might be worth looking at. http://www.drawcollar.com/

updated. I went back and looked at the testimonials, which are never biased as we all know, but they are pretty interesting. By interesting, I mean positive. All pretty straightforward. Except the one who said that when his neighbors planted trees in the easement, that caused his draft problems. That I did not understand.
 
If your chimney won't suck, most quick fixes will.
 
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